Skate Park

[Bobby J]

I was really not sure where to put this thread. Skating has become one of the fastest growing sports in the world and this area seems to be ripe for a skate park. I think more kids skate then play baseball or football. Looking to hear some feedback on this issue. I know the county has liability concerns but my understanding is that the park would fall under the same category as a "park". They could not be held liable if someone is injured. I wold love to have more for kids to do around here.

Lets see some pros and cons on this one.

Thanks

[Smiling JOe]

I thought the City of Freeport was putting a skate area in the new City Park on Bay Loop Rd. Did they change that?

[beachmouse]

One thing to look at is cashflow if you're operating on a fee basis. I'm not sure how the BMX/skate park in FWB is going finance-wise but I seem to remember that the one in Niceville was running in the red until they added the paintball area.

And you probably do want to have a fee since you really do need at least one attendant for the area.

[Camp Creek Kid]

I believe that this issue has been addressed during the Operation Play Park meetings. JDarg, SGB, or Supermom will probably know for sure, but a small skate park or, skate boarding course, was on the wish list. I don't know if it was included in the final plans.

[Smiling JOe]

Why don't the kids just use Foley's? Some teens down the street from me set up a rail and ramp in the street every day. No one seems to be complaining about it.

[Bobby J]

This would be a free skate park. Like a football Field or baseball field. The only difference is it will get more use and less upkeep for the county. I really think our tax dollars should be put to use for something like this. We should have the same vision as Milton, Fl? Come on...

[Smiling JOe]

A con from the County's perspective would be liability. They seemed to get over that fear by allowing the Dog Park to be built on County-owned property, but I think a skate park has more risk of injury than a dog park. Do you know how Milton, FL addressed their liability concerns? From what I understand, posting a sign and saying "skate at your own risk" doesn't eliminate liability.

[Bobby J]

A con from the County's perspective would be liability. They seemed to get over that fear by allowing the Dog Park to be built on County-owned property, but I think a skate park has more risk of injury than a dog park. Do you know how Milton, FL addressed their liability concerns? From what I understand, posting a sign and saying "skate at your own risk" doesn't eliminate liability.

There is a law that the senate passed that eliminates liability. It was designed specifically for skate parks. It was designed to encourage skate parks. The county will try to use the liability issue but that will not fly because it simply is not fact. The law that was pushed through encourages skate parks because kids will get injured when they do not have a place to skate. I have some info being emailed as I write this. I was told there was an area set aside at Helen McCall park for a skate park but the county seems to be dragging on this issue. SoWal would really take a step into the future if we were to get a real skate park!

[Smiling JOe]

Can the senate legally do that? Surely, it cannot be a complete blanket of protection. What happens if the park is not properly maintained and a kid gets paralyzed for life from an accident caused by the lack of maintenance performed by the County? (Just questions which will be asked.)

I bet you are right about the stats of injuries at skate parks vs illegal skating on public property like hand rails down staircases, benches in parks, etc.

[Bobby J]

Could you imagine the positive publicity SoWal would get if we took a positive step for the kids... Many kids are just not in tune with Football, baseball and soccer, especially in coastal areas. They like to surf and skate!

[swantree]

counties always make that statement. back in the early early 90's I helped start what is now the Seaside Skate park. we did alot of the same lobby work in Seaside Oregon with enough people it can happen. Oregon is now a very hot spot for Public skate.

http://www.skateoregon.com/

check out the you tube of Seaside!

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9s39xaBk58&feature=related[/nomedia]

[Bobby J]

Can the senate legally do that? Surely, it cannot be a complete blanket of protection. What happens if the park is not properly maintained and a kid gets paralyzed for life from an accident caused by the lack of maintenance performed by the County? (Just questions which will be asked.)

I bet you are right about the stats of injuries at skate parks vs illegal skating on public property like hand rails down staircases, benches in parks, etc.

My buddy who just moved from here sat down with Cindy Meadows regarding these issues. He is actually a lawyer and pretty well versed on this issue. I just spoke with him and he is going to email me the info tonight. I guess the same would apply for a kid getting injured playing football on a state park field. Surely the liability issue would be just as great for a football injury versus a skating injury.

[Bobby J]

counties always make that statement. back in the early early 90's I helped start what is now the Seaside Skate park. we did alot of the same lobby work in Seaside Oregon with enough people it can happen. Oregon is now a very hot spot for Public skate.

http://www.skateoregon.com/

check out the you tube of Seaside!

Jim,
This is sooooo cool. Maybe we could get a group together and start talking about this. Your links are exactly what I am talking about!

[Smiling JOe]

I guess the same would apply for a kid getting injured playing football on a state park field. Surely the liability issue would be just as great for a football injury versus a skating injury.

I doubt it. Regarding the liability, I was speaking only about the maintenance issue. If someone stepped into a small hole on the football field, it likely won't lead to as severe an injury, especially since the players are wearing pads. Might end up with a twisted ankle or maybe a broken leg. However, if a kid on a skateboard hits a small rock which locks his wheels, and he flies off onto one of the concrete corners, or falls into the pit, 5 ft below, he is going to likely have some bad injuries.

I bring up the liability issue because I think it will be the largest obstacle to overcome. I am all for a skate park, especially if I can ride my mountain bike in it, like the kid in the photo.

[Smiling JOe]

Bobby, there is a really cool skatepark on the north side of downtown Asheville. I understand that they use sponsors to pay for it, but the property is owned by City of Asheville. They have a concession stand and a bit of advertising. Of course, the ads are for junk food, like Pepsi, RedBull, etc.

[Mango]

I'm sorry. I just don't get it. Whatever happened to kids finding a hill or making ramps and what not like we did when we were kids and used our imagination? I can understand constructing playgrounds for the area children, there's safe social interaction, lots sizes may inhibit a parent from installing a playground etc., but this seems over the top.
Also, why are area children not exposed to baseball and football? this seems like news to me.

[Jdarg]

Our county has limited recreation dollars that need to be spent on enhancing our family recreational sports and parks- like adding a play ground at Helen McCall, enhancing the football and baseball facilities there as well, supporting the new US98 Soccer venture, which will be the new recreational soccer program for SoWal, adding public tennis courts, a public swimming facility- these needs are met in communities first before things like skate parks. Skating may be popular, but the more mainstream recreational activities need to be in place first since that truly is what the majority of the families are participating in here.

Lots of kids get their athletic start in local recreational sports programs. High schools and colleges don't have skateboard teams.

[Bobby J]

My experience with skate parks has been a little more positive. I have heard and witnessed the exact opposite. Often times the skate parks are packed while the baseball and football fields sit empty. The reason many feel these are "mainstream" recreational activities is because kids have no where to skate. In California they have skate/ surf classes. More kids skate then play football/baseball. It does not seem over the top at all to me. It seems short sighted that we do not address this issue. In 2002, there were about 16 million skateboarders in the US. That number is up from 11.5 million skateboarders in 2000. In the year 2000, there were only 9 million little league baseball players in the US, and that number has declined 1% every year since. Skate Boarding has become more mainstream. I do not know of any high schools here that have skate board teams but they are not unheard of in other parts of the country. Does that mean we should not have a skate board park? If we had a skateboard park and then a skateboard team, I bet it would do better then our football team. Why? More kids skate! It is kind of a lost group of kids that we all just do not seem to want to understand. They do not fit in what society thinks is "mainstream" sports. Jdarg, I respect and believe your bad experience but not all skate parks have that history. I guess we can agree to disagree on this one. I just see a complete culture of kids getting pushed to the way side and would love to think that a county as unique as SoWal would do something a little more unique then another football/baseball field.

[Bobby J]

I doubt it. Regarding the liability, I was speaking only about the maintenance issue. If someone stepped into a small hole on the football field, it likely won't lead to as severe an injury, especially since the players are wearing pads. Might end up with a twisted ankle or maybe a broken leg. However, if a kid on a skateboard hits a small rock which locks his wheels, and he flies off onto one of the concrete corners, or falls into the pit, 5 ft below, he is going to likely have some bad injuries.

I bring up the liability issue because I think it will be the largest obstacle to overcome. I am all for a skate park, especially if I can ride my mountain bike in it, like the kid in the photo.

I know this issue is going to have mixed reviews and do not expect everyone to be all for it.
SJ, here is the summary:

Liability
a. To encourage the development of Skate-parks, the Florida Legislature passed Florida Statute 316.0085. This statute limits the liability of the government entity and codifies the ‘inherent risk’ and the ‘assumption of risk’ relating to skateboarding.

b. F.S. 316.0085 (4): “A governmental entity or public employee is not liable to any person who voluntarily participates in skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling for any damage or injury to property or persons which arises out of a person's participation in such activity, and which takes place in an area designated for such activity.”

[dijitil]

I think if a skate park in this area was properly managed or maintained it would go over VERY well. I'm 21 years old and have lived here for 15 years I've been skating for 9 of those years off and on. The only reason I never skated more consistently was due to the lack of proper facilities. If the park was properly gated and was operational from say 12pm to 6pm (maybe later with proper lighting?) it would keep vandalism and other malicious acts to a minimum. Skateboarding is beneficial in so many ways to our youth nothing but good could come of this. I'm in full support and ready to do anything it takes to fully back this...I'm also ready to get back on my board :)

[Jdarg]

Y'all are going to have a hard time getting me out of my Nervous Nellie ways- my family was in the insurance business, my kids wear helmets for everything...now Kate wants to surf and she is perfect size for shark bait.

I think your desire for a skate park, and our desire for enhancing the limited recreational facilities are compatible. My perspective represents what I am hearing at the elementary school every day- we have a few things going on for the kids, but the area's recreational structure has not caught up to the actual demographics of the area, which are families with children in school, looking for the team sports programs, tennis courts, swimming pool, and playground, found in most small communities. We have a lot of catching up to do around here! Don't get me wrong- I love this area- but it grew quickly and not all aspects of a "community" grew with it.

This is similar to another thread, where are government representation does not seem to represent the residents and interests of SoWal.

[Bear]

When I first got married my wife and I lived in Estes Park Co. And belive it or not the high school atually had a full skate park. . I would sneak in and skate the half pipe on the weekends. We definitely need a park.

[Bobby J]

Y'all are going to have a hard time getting me out of my Nervous Nellie ways- my family was in the insurance business, my kids wear helmets for everything...now Kate wants to surf and she is perfect size for shark bait.

I think your desire for a skate park, and our desire for enhancing the limited recreational facilities are compatible. My perspective represents what I am hearing at the elementary school every day- we have a few things going on for the kids, but the area's recreational structure has not caught up to the actual demographics of the area, which are families with children in school, looking for the team sports programs, tennis courts, swimming pool, and playground, found in most small communities. We have a lot of catching up to do around here! Don't get me wrong- I love this area- but it grew quickly and not all aspects of a "community" grew with it.

This is similar to another thread, where are government representation does not seem to represent the residents and interests of SoWal.

Well put. Now is the time for our representation to step up. The community has grown very fast and I would like to see our government step up to the growth. Many children do not like team sports.
I think the numbers to build the skate park are around $300,000. I bet we could get it privately funded. All the county would have to do is come up with the land. Heck, if you charged $5.oo a day per person it would probably generate $300 to $500 per day. The monies would easily maintain and staff it for that matter.

[Smiling JOe]

Bobby, I notice the word, "limits" in that law. Limited liability is not the same as no liability. I'm sure the intent involves negligence of proper maintenance or maybe security, such as lighting or cameras.

I will add that it may be a law, but it may be an unconstitutional law which doesn't provide for protection of the people -- protection not being a lack of injuries, but a way to seek damages if one is "injured."

[Smiling JOe]

Thinking more about this, maybe someone needs to open a skate and surf park. Your choice, ride some waves, or ride some concrete. I bet there are already some of these in Cali.

[SGB]

My two cents - I agree with jdarg that the usual sports and recreational facilities should be built first. The number of children we currently have enrolling in the county sports programs completely overwhelm the facilities. The county (Cindy Meadows and Ronnie Bell specifically) have done a great job in moving on getting us more facilities but it's been a slow process. The hardest part seems to be buying the land needed. The latest 10 acres that the county purchased to expand Helen McCall has pretty much been spoken for and there are projects still without a home. The hope is that the latest 10 acres will include a great playground (thanks to Mission Playpark!) a multipurpose sports field (football and soccer) and perhaps a pool. It will also include a running/walking trail that will be paved so that skateboarders can use it.

The county is also in the process of purchasing 7 acres near the high school. We recently applied for a grant for $1.4 million to purchase and enhance this land. We don't yet know if we scored high enough to get the money. (Thanks to many parents and recreational football players we did get the maximum amt of points for excellence for just showing up at a meeting in Tallahassee.) This 7 acres is supposed to include tennis and basketball courts and a small playground. A community center building is also planned.

Having said all that, I do think that the kids in area would benefit greatly with a safe place to skateboard. The Mission Playpark group had suggested a "skate spot", which isn't as large or as challenging as a full skate park, and hopefully not as much trouble. It would attract the local kids, but wouldn't be big enough to attract kids from out of the area. The county hasn't totally bought into this concept, but it hasn't really been a priority either. Our first focus was in getting a playground for the kids. The problem again is having enough land for all the recreational needs of the county. Perhaps the county should have attended the latest auction and purchased the 10 acres on JD Miller road....

A skate park for the older kids would fill a great need. Although my daughter is not a skater really, many of her friends are and they have to get shuttled over to Niceville or FWB by their parents. They do try to skate in places here, such as Gulf Place, Seaside, and Rosemary, but always get shooed away by security. These aren't "bad" kids that security needs to worry about, just kids that love to skate. To be fair the security is looking out for the potential property damage.

For those interested in pursuing a skate park - there is some money available for the skate park. I wish I could remember the man's name, but some of you probably do... The mother of the young man that died in a car accident on 30A in front of Redfish Village a few years ago sued the builder and some of the contractors and won more than $1M. At the time she won the suit, she said she was going to donate some of the money (I think $250K) to building a skate park in the area since it was one of her son's passions. Sounds like a good place to start. There was also a group of people that were trying to get a county skate park about a year ago. I remember reading an article in the Walton Sun. Just please don't take away any of the land that is currently slated for other recreational purposes that are desperately needed! I still can't believe we don't have a community pool for swim lessons!

[Romeosmydog]

Why don't the kids just use Foley's? Some teens down the street from me set up a rail and ramp in the street every day. No one seems to be complaining about it.

Foley has all his crapola on it. We need to get the boys over there and clean it off. That was a great ramp. It was the best one in town until Pete and Paula built one. It's all fancy smancy with J. Asher graffiti.

[Romeosmydog]

Okay more on this. I think it is sad that we use words like "usual" sports, and want to dump all of our dollars into finding something for the "kids" to do. Well, we need to think hard and fast about what we are going to do with out "tweens" and our teens! What does this county offer them, other than getting pregnant, smoking a big j or tweeking their myspaces? I am grateful for the bike path, but honestly it can't be any safer than a skate park....I have see 3 bikers get smashed by cars pulling out of driveways. Our teen pregnancy rate is higher than state average --that scares the pajeebies outta me. Good for you BobbyJ, fight the good fight for teens in our area. I got your back.

[Smiling JOe]

I, too, don't like the words, "usual sports." First of all those "usual sports" are team sports. Is it the idea of having a coach (someone to hold accountable and give the kids direction and instill morals) which makes a sport, "usual?" I remember seeing stats on the skating population and they were as Bobby J stated -- overwhelmingly, they show that more kids skate than play any other team sport in the US. To play baseball or football, you need more than one kid. To skate, all a kid needs is a board and a place to do it. There is no time limit, either. No point system to keep score. Instead, kids learn tricks from other kids, and that seems unique as opposed to the world of "usual sports." Little land is needed for building a skate park, as compared to a baseball field or football field. No grass to mow and paint stripes upon, no dirt to rake, no bases to put down. Just some concrete and rails, and occasional repairs or patches. Seems to me that if we are going to classify an activity as "usual," we should consider the more common activity of skating to be the "usual sport."

One other thing comes to mind when I think of skating -- movies and photos. I see many kids getting into the photography behind the sport where I see nothing of the sort when it comes to any other sport.

I know you the park system is limited on funds, and that you are likely competing for the same dollars, but I think in many ways, you are also fighting for the same thing, activities and recreation for our youth, so that they can grow, mentally and physically.

[Bobby J]

SGB,
I agree with a lot of what you are saying but the "usual sports" is where I disconnect. Every time I visit a skate park, I see a packed skate park and empty fields. As adults we have lost touch with what the kids really want. The reason we are not educated on this issue is we have not offered choices. We tell our kids here you go, a beautiful field to play your sport. The majority do not want it. The majority of the parents want another field. The kids want a skate park. Skating has become the usual sport in most other areas. Once again we will arrive at this conclusion 10-20 years from now. I mean no disrespect but it just seems like such an obvious thing to do. We should build what they want not the what the parents think they want.

[Bobby J]

I also think a community pool to learn to swim would be awesome. I would probably rather have that myself. My point is, ask a kid which one he would rather have.

[Minnie]

BobbyJ, my daugther is a senior at Ole Miss and the City of Oxford has recently built one that has been very positively received in a city that is crazy for football and basketball.

Here is a link. http://www.oxfordms.net/recent/skatepark.htm

[Bobby J]

BobbyJ, my daugther is a senior at Ole Miss and the City of Oxford has recently built one that has been very positively received in a city that is crazy for football and basketball.

Here is a link. http://www.oxfordms.net/recent/skatepark.htm

Thanks Minnie! This is really awesome. I am puzzled why other places in the US do not have the liability concerns. SJ, I will speak to my friend. He told me that the law does not allow lawsuits. Of course we all know that any lawyer can work his way around that but I would believe more kids would be injured on a football field then a skate park. BTW, I am not opposed to team sports. I played all of them and hope my son does too. I just think our area needs more options.

[SGB]

SGB,
I agree with a lot of what you are saying but the "usual sports" is where I disconnect. Every time I visit a skate park, I see a packed skate park and empty fields. As adults we have lost touch with what the kids really want. The reason we are not educated on this issue is we have not offered choices. We tell our kids here you go, a beautiful field to play your sport. The majority do not want it. The majority of the parents want another field. The kids want a skate park. Skating has become the usual sport in most other areas. Once again we will arrive at this conclusion 10-20 years from now. I mean no disrespect but it just seems like such an obvious thing to do. We should build what they want not the what the parents think they want.

I don't disagree with you, but I think it depends on the age group you look at. The younger ones love the team sports and learn lots of good things attending these programs. They might be there initially because their parent thought it was a good idea, but most of them do really enjoy it once they are introduced to it. I think a majority of these younger kids would say they want the fields (or a playground if they are younger than 4th grade).

I am by no means a team sports cheerleader, but in addition to the obvious benefit of the children learning a sport and how to work with a team, I've seen the team sports help build the community. Families connect with one another and work together to grow the area. Everyone sees a different need and will find people that have the same interest in building that aspect of the community. One of the reasons Mission Playpark! was created was to help build this sense of community with the families that have kids that aren't yet in school. There just isn't a place for moms (usually) and their small children to meet and get to know one another and form a community to support one another.

If you go to the fields that are used for soccer, during soccer season, you'll see that they are packed and creative scheduling is happening. Same is true for football, baseball and softball. It is frustrating that the fields aren't being used all year round, but as the sport season changes, the fields in season are packed. Trying to use multisport fields will help with this. As the kids get older, they will play the sports that they truly enjoy, not what their parents enjoy, so the numbers go down. I've seen this with my kids as they stop doing the sports they were doing to be part of the fun, and instead concentrate on those sports that they really, really enjoy and start to excel in. Skate boarding is one sport I've seen the 5th -8th graders move to (along with surfing!). I'm sure they started younger, but they really get a passion for it in the middle school ages.

As I said in my previous post, I do agree that that older kids want and need a place to skate. Many of the older kids have moved on from team sports and found that they love to skate and want a great place to do it without getting hassled. A large percentage of them will vote for a skate park. I totally support this and hope that the county and those that want to get involved are successful in getting all the recreational facilities we need for all ages. The more people there are asking for recreational facilities for the families in the area, the better.

[Bobby J]

I don't disagree with you, but I think it depends on the age group you look at. The younger ones love the team sports and learn lots of good things attending these programs. They might be there initially because their parent thought it was a good idea, but most of them do really enjoy it once they are introduced to it. I think a majority of these younger kids would say they want the fields (or a playground if they are younger than 4th grade).

I am by no means a team sports cheerleader, but in addition to the obvious benefit of the children learning a sport and how to work with a team, I've seen the team sports help build the community. Families connect with one another and work together to grow the area. Everyone sees a different need and will find people that have the same interest in building that aspect of the community. One of the reasons Mission Playpark! was created was to help build this sense of community with the families that have kids that aren't yet in school. There just isn't a place for moms (usually) and their small children to meet and get to know one another and form a community to support one another.

If you go to the fields that are used for soccer, during soccer season, you'll see that they are packed and creative scheduling is happening. Same is true for football, baseball and softball. It is frustrating that the fields aren't being used all year round, but as the sport season changes, the fields in season are packed. Trying to use multisport fields will help with this. As the kids get older, they will play the sports that they truly enjoy, not what their parents enjoy, so the numbers go down. I've seen this with my kids as they stop doing the sports they were doing to be part of the fun, and instead concentrate on those sports that they really, really enjoy and start to excel in. Skate boarding is one sport I've seen the 5th -8th graders move to (along with surfing!). I'm sure they started younger, but they really get a passion for it in the middle school ages.

As I said in my previous post, I do agree that that older kids want and need a place to skate. Many of the older kids have moved on from team sports and found that they love to skate and want a great place to do it without getting hassled. A large percentage of them will vote for a skate park. I totally support this and hope that the county and those that want to get involved are successful in getting all the recreational facilities we need for all ages. The more people there are asking for recreational facilities for the families in the area, the better.

Great post and agreed. Growing up here it was always frustrating to not have more options. Kids really change during those critical years you speak of. As a community we need to pull together to make sure a very large percentage of our kids are represented. I think we are sophisticated enough to offer this to our kids.

[Mango]

Well this is all very interesting,. I had no idea that there were so many of these skate parks. having been a tomboy when I was younger, I would have been all over something like this like white on rice, but then at that age, one thinks they are invincible and nothing catastrophic could happen, and lets face it, this is a riskier proposition than a playgound. You fall, you fall on concrete, not rubber mulch. You can't pad your whole entire body.

I did a little googling and found an interesting article about the pros and cons of skate parks. Good food for thought. After reading it, and thinking about it, my main concern as a taxpayer in the County as far as liability is concerned, is the maintenace and upkeep of the park. Further, in the pictures I saw posted, I see cyclers. I read that there could be extreme liability in that respect. Who would stop the cyclers? would there be different levels of the park for smaller children? who would do the repairs? apparently a very talented concrete contractor is needed. Who would pay for the repairs? Would it be limited to residents only? and if no one is there to monitor that, what's to stop vacationers from dropping their kids off while they run over to the Destin Commons?

Here's a link to the article. It addresses all sides of the issue.

I am all for anything that advances kids intellectually and challenges them physically, but having just read that the Drama teacher paid for students materials out his own pocket makes you wonder where the priorities are right now in this County as far as what is spent and how.

[Smiling JOe]

With all this talk about skate parks, I decided to borrow a spare board from a kid today, and we hit the streets in Grayton. I had a blast, and never crashed once, and the kid, who is about 7 or 8 years old, taught me a few skills. I had not been on a skateboard since 1977. It was almost as much fun as playing kickball, afterwards. I'm not quite ready for the ramps, as the flat ground was challenging enough, especially with all of the loose gravel.

[Minnie]

I have a degree in Physical Education and believe me nothing is more dangerous than a playground of any type. Along with any sports be it, football, or especially gymnastics. Swimming pools too.

Many of our classes dealt with liability. I don't see the skate park being any more dangerous than an unsupervised playground.

There are very few activities that kids can participate in without another participant, therefore I can see the interest in a skate park by many.

[GoodWitch58]

With all this talk about skate parks, I decided to borrow a spare board from a kid today, and we hit the streets in Grayton. I had a blast, and never crashed once, and the kid, who is about 7 or 8 years old, taught me a few skills. I had not been on a skateboard since 1977. It was almost as much fun as playing kickball, afterwards. I'm not quite ready for the ramps, as the flat ground was challenging enough, especially with all of the loose gravel.

SJ, was that you in the middle of the street in front of the Red Bar with the little kid who looked as though he wanted to run right into my oncoming car....he moved and I stopped--just in time.

Two more reasons we need a skate park around here, I'd say

[Smiling JOe]

Yes, that was us. He was doing pretty good about stopping the skating when the cars came. I kept reminding him, and he would call out, "CAR COMING!" to me. We were skating in the street because he was trying to skate down the rough wooden boardwalk in front of the Red Bar and beside D&K's. It was too dangerous, as I about busted my face when the front wheels locked on a board which was set too high. I tried to get him to stay away from the expensive cars (typically, that is the shiny cars around here), but he didn't seem to know the difference.

[Mango]

I have a degree in Physical Education and believe me nothing is more dangerous than a playground of any type. Along with any sports be it, football, or especially gymnastics. Swimming pools too.

Many of our classes dealt with liability. I don't see the skate park being any more dangerous than an unsupervised playground.

There are very few activities that kids can participate in without another participant, therefore I can see the interest in a skate park by many.

Minnie, all of the sports you listed are supervised to a large degree. Most parents are with their kids in a playground to watch their children. Even if a skate park was supervised, it's literally impossible to keep up with every kid moving at the speeds they are moving. The maintenance of the grounds for other sports is not nearly as detailed as maintaining a skate park especially in environments subject to extreme heat and cold. So far no one has looked into the insurance costs for this which appears to be expensive. I also read from a legal perspective that if a park is supervised, you've just allowed a potential lawsuit to reach first base. Unfortunately we live in a sue happy society.

On the flip positive side, I read that accidents in skate parks are fairly minute in relation to the given amount of them in CA. I would love to see something for kids that they would enjoy, but as a taxpayer (and I stress that) I have serious concerns about the potential implications from a possible lawsuit. Where would the money come from? Would bed taxes be increased or real estate taxes to make up the shortfall in paying out a future lawsuit potentially in the millions? Would insurance cover this? Lots of questions to be answered. Just trying to keep it real. I can understand the excitement of wanting one. They look like oodles of funn.

[Smiling JOe]

Since the County is cutting the Mosquito Control Mgr's salaried position from $120,000 back to around $60,000, maybe that money is now available every year. A couple of years should pay for a skate park, eh? Add some advertising and wah-la! I can see it now, "QuickSilver Skate Park."

[Bobby J]

Minnie, all of the sports you listed are supervised to a large degree. Most parents are with their kids in a playground to watch their children. Even if a skate park was supervised, it's literally impossible to keep up with every kid moving at the speeds they are moving. The maintenance of the grounds for other sports is not nearly as detailed as maintaining a skate park especially in environments subject to extreme heat and cold. So far no one has looked into the insurance costs for this which appears to be expensive. I also read from a legal perspective that if a park is supervised, you've just allowed a potential lawsuit to reach first base. Unfortunately we live in a sue happy society.

On the flip positive side, I read that accidents in skate parks are fairly minute in relation to the given amount of them in CA. I would love to see something for kids that they would enjoy, but as a taxpayer (and I stress that) I have serious concerns about the potential implications from a possible lawsuit. Where would the money come from? Would bed taxes be increased or real estate taxes to make up the shortfall in paying out a future lawsuit potentially in the millions? Would insurance cover this? Lots of questions to be answered. Just trying to keep it real. I can understand the excitement of wanting one. They look like oodles of funn.

The liability would be the same as any other sport played on county property. It will not change your tax base at all. My understanding of this bill is you will not be able to sue and if you do it will be thrown out:

The 2006 Florida Statutes

Title XXIII

MOTOR VEHICLES

Chapter 316

STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL

View Entire Chapter

316.0085 Skateboarding; inline skating; freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling; paintball; definitions; liability.--
(1) The purpose of this section is to encourage governmental owners or lessees of property to make land available to the public for skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, and freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling. It is recognized that governmental owners or lessees of property have failed to make property available for such activities because of the exposure to liability from lawsuits and the prohibitive cost of insurance, if insurance can be obtained for such activities. It is also recognized that risks and dangers are inherent in these activities, which risks and dangers should be assumed by those participating in such activities.
(2) As used in this section, the term:
(a) "Governmental entity" means:
1. The United States, the State of Florida, any county or municipality, or any department, agency, or other instrumentality thereof.
2. Any school board, special district, authority, or other entity exercising governmental authority.
(b) "Inherent risk" means those dangers or conditions that are characteristic of, intrinsic to, or an integral part of skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, and freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling.
(3) This section does not grant authority or permission for a person to engage in skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling on property owned or controlled by a governmental entity unless such governmental entity has specifically designated such area for skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling. Each governmental entity shall post a rule in each specifically designated area that identifies all authorized activities and indicates that a child under 17 years of age may not engage in any of those activities until the governmental entity has obtained written consent, in a form acceptable to the governmental entity, from the child's parents or legal guardians.
(4) A governmental entity or public employee is not liable to any person who voluntarily participates in skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling for any damage or injury to property or persons which arises out of a person's participation in such activity, and which takes place in an area designated for such activity.
(5) This section does not limit liability that would otherwise exist for any of the following:
(a) The failure of the governmental entity or public employee to guard against or warn of a dangerous condition of which a participant does not and cannot reasonably be expected to have notice.
(b) An act of gross negligence by the governmental entity or public employee that is the proximate cause of the injury.
(c) The failure of a governmental entity that provides a designated area for skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling to obtain the written consent, in a form acceptable to the governmental entity, from the parents or legal guardians of any child under 17 years of age before authorizing such child to participate in skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling in such designated area, unless that child's participation is in violation of posted rules governing the authorized use of the designated area, except that a parent or legal guardian must demonstrate that written consent to engage in mountain or off-road bicycling in a designated area was provided to the governmental entity before entering the designated area. 

Nothing in this subsection creates a duty of care or basis of liability for death, personal injury, or damage to personal property. Nothing in this section shall be deemed to be a waiver of sovereign immunity under any circumstances.
(6) Nothing in this section shall limit the liability of an independent concessionaire, or any person or organization other than a governmental entity or public employee, whether or not the person or organization has a contractual relationship with a governmental entity to use the public property, for injuries or damages suffered in any case as a result of the operation of skateboards, inline skates, paintball equipment, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycles on public property by the concessionaire, person, or organization.
(7)(a) Any person who participates in or assists in skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain and off-road bicycling assumes the known and unknown inherent risks in these activities irrespective of age, and is legally responsible for all damages, injury, or death to himself or herself or other persons or property which result from these activities. Any person who observes skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain or off-road bicycling assumes the known and unknown inherent risks in these activities irrespective of age, and is legally responsible for all damages, injury, or death to himself or herself which result from these activities. A governmental entity that sponsors, allows, or permits skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain or off-road bicycling on its property is not required to eliminate, alter, or control the inherent risks in these activities.
(b) While engaged in skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain or off-road bicycling, irrespective of where such activities occur, a participant is responsible for doing all of the following:
1. Acting within the limits of his or her ability and the purpose and design of the equipment used.
2. Maintaining control of his or her person and the equipment used.
3. Refraining from acting in any manner which may cause or contribute to death or injury of himself or herself, or other persons. 

Failure to comply with the requirements of this paragraph shall constitute negligence.
(8) The fact that a governmental entity carries insurance which covers any act described in this section shall not constitute a waiver of the protections set forth in this section, regardless of the existence or limits of such coverage.
History.--s. 1, ch. 99-133; s. 1, ch. 2004-288; s. 7, ch. 2006-290.

[Smiling JOe]

Bobby, this liability is exactly what I was talking about the County being open to:

(5) This section does not limit liability that would otherwise exist for any of the following:
(a) The failure of the governmental entity or public employee to guard against or warn of a dangerous condition of which a participant does not and cannot reasonably be expected to have notice.
(b) An act of gross negligence by the governmental entity or public employee that is the proximate cause of the injury.

[Mango]

The liability would be the same as any other sport played on county property. It will not change your tax base at all. My understanding of this bill is you will not be able to sue and if you do it will be thrown out:.
(5) This section does not limit liability that would otherwise exist for any of the following:
(a) The failure of the governmental entity or public employee to guard against or warn of a dangerous condition of which a participant does not and cannot reasonably be expected to have notice.
(b) An act of gross negligence by the governmental entity or public employee that is the proximate cause of the injury.
[COLOR=#00006e][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman](c) The failure of a governmental entity that provides a designated area for skateboarding, inline skating, paintball, or freestyle or mountain

I've been watching A Christmas Story and I keep hearing, "you'll shoot your eye out kid.
Bobby, section 5 appears to leave quite a bit open IMHO, but I am not a lawyer. I am kind of relieved that there are not as many reported injuries with this sport, maybe because kids are embarrassed to report them.
I found this article interesting written by Illinois attorneys regarding liability. I am not sure if the laws are similar there.
http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/2002/ip20128.html
Here's another.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/932/story/131139.html

[Bobby J]

Bobby, this liability is exactly what I was talking about the County being open to:

(5) This section does not limit liability that would otherwise exist for any of the following:
(a) The failure of the governmental entity or public employee to guard against or warn of a dangerous condition of which a participant does not and cannot reasonably be expected to have notice.
(b) An act of gross negligence by the governmental entity or public employee that is the proximate cause of the injury.

(a) would be the one I am not sure about. It seems (b) would be common sense things... Large crack in concrete, etc. Actually they both go hand in hand. The lawyer that turned me on to this said, it will be very hard to sue the county. I think section 5 would apply for any sport on county property. Does Il. have this same statutes? I believe the bill is written to encourage the local governments in Florida to act. One of the original problems in Florida was the liability issue. That is why this bill was passed. I can only imagine the hassles it took to get this thing through the proper channels. I would feel pretty confident as a land owner that this bill will carry a lot of weight when some "sue happy" person tries to challenge it.

[Smiling JOe]

Bobby, I'm sure that law which you cite reduces liability greatly, by the user who choses to skate and falls with an injury, at no fault of anyone else and no negligence of maintenance or repairs. That is probably the most common occurring lawsuits brought in the past on this type of issue (just my guess). If the County is doing their job, they have someone from Parks and Recreation inspecting the park regularly, maybe daily, with written checklists. They will also have a few ways of reporting items of repair which need attention, via email or phone call, with signs posted with contact information for reporting repairs needed. If they are doing all of that and making any repairs quickly, and or posting signs and taping off the problem areas needing or being repaired in a timely fashion, their liability will likely decrease. However, in a County where developers can build a bridge across the wetlands, or dig canals into dry land in order to create more waterfront property, before the County discovers it, I would bet that they cannot handle something like regularly monitoring cracks or chips in concrete.

[Bobby J]

Bobby, I'm sure that law which you cite reduces liability greatly, by the user who choses to skate and falls with an injury, at no fault of anyone else and no negligence of maintenance or repairs. That is probably the most common occurring lawsuits brought in the past on this type of issue (just my guess). If the County is doing their job, they have someone from Parks and Recreation inspecting the park regularly, maybe daily, with written checklists. They will also have a few ways of reporting items of repair which need attention, via email or phone call, with signs posted with contact information for reporting repairs needed. If they are doing all of that and making any repairs quickly, and or posting signs and taping off the problem areas needing or being repaired in a timely fashion, their liability will likely decrease. However, in a County where developers can build a bridge across the wetlands, or dig canals into dry land in order to create more waterfront property, before the County discovers it, I would bet that they cannot handle something like regularly monitoring cracks or chips in concrete.

Sad but true.... I still feel that we can not live our life based on "what if". People sue all the time and a bill was written to try and protect counties from the problem. I have had several pms and phone calls of support on this issue. I really think the kids of SoWal would like to see this thing come to life. SJ, you are already getting ready today!

[jessifunn]

For those interested in pursuing a skate park - there is some money available for the skate park. I wish I could remember the man's name, but some of you probably do... The mother of the young man that died in a car accident on 30A in front of Redfish Village a few years ago sued the builder and some of the contractors and won more than $1M. At the time she won the suit, she said she was going to donate some of the money (I think $250K) to building a skate park in the area since it was one of her son's passions. Sounds like a good place to start.

His name is Joseph Eddie
Back in the day we use to skate behind the brick yard in an old run down tennis court.

No doubt there is a need for a skate park. In Atlantic Beach (Jacksonville) they have a public park. No fees and you have to wear helmets. A securtity guard patrols the park and it closes at sun down. They don't seem to have any problems and you will often see mom and dad with the kids enjoying the park.

Also there might not be Skate or Surf teams at schools, but a lot of the time they do have clubs. I went to college in Jacksonville and we had a surf and skate team. They did a lot of volunteer work in the community. UNF acutally has a skate park on campus.

[Smiling JOe]

I know that Code Enforcement has only about 6 officers on duty, except for weekends and holidays, but they should not be the people doing the routine inspections of such a park. I think that should fall under the Dept of Parks and Recreation, and for all I know, they will do a splendid job. I believe there are only two people listed in this Dept with the County. Have you contacted either of them? Their contact info is on WalCo's website under Parks and Recreation.

I don't mean to sound as negative as I am probably appearing. I like the idea of getting a skate park. I have seriously thought about getting a long board for a few years now. I doubt I'd use it for anything other than flat ground, but I have an old body, filled with aches and pains. Those kids are a different story. You asked for the cons, and I am just prepping you for what is sure to come from many people. With the proper systems in place, I think the County could greatly limit their exposure and this could be a doable thing once allocated funding and land. I am dead serious about getting advertising to pay for it, and I'm not talking about local ads. I doubt that ad money would be spent, and wouldn't amount to much. Get some major skate apparel labels and shoes like Vans, along with some board companies, etc. and they should jump on it and be able to provide funding. Especially if their ads could be seen from Google Earth -- horizontal billboards, baby! It's coming.