Electricity Question

**Landlocked** · 10-31-2005, 02:35 PM

Weird question for you guys: I am somewhat of a handy man but when it comes to electricity, I don't know squat.

We have a 2,600 sq ft home and our power bill is regularly well over four hundred dollars a month. This is our first home. Since buying it, I have replaced the water heater, air handler, outside AC condenser, all the appliances, etc. What the hell is pulling so much current? Any ideas, PLEASE?

From the neighbors and family I've talked to, a four hundred dollar power bill is too big for that size house.

If I don't get it corrected, the DEA is going to think I'm growing hydroponic weed in my basement.

Any advice would be appreciated.

-I've also had 4 electricians come out and every one of them didn't take the time to look around good enough to find the problem.

**Kimmifunn** · 10-31-2005, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Landlocked

Weird question for you guys: I am somewhat of a handy man but when it comes to electricity, I don't know squat.

We have a 2,600 sq ft home and our power bill is regularly well over four hundred dollars a month. This is our first home. Since buying it, I have replaced the water heater, air handler, outside AC condenser, all the appliances, etc. What the hell is pulling so much current? Any ideas, PLEASE?

From the neighbors and family I've talked to, a four hundred dollar power bill is too big for that size house.

If I don't get it corrected, the DEA is going to think I'm growing hydroponic weed in my basement.

Any advice would be appreciated.

-I've also had 4 electricians come out and every one of them didn't take the time to look around good enough to find the problem.

Just start selling what you're growing in the basement. Then you can pay your power bill!

**kurt** · 10-31-2005, 02:49 PM

I assume you're not blasting the AC, but if you have little or no insulation and your AC is running a lot that could be it. Have you covered that base? How old is the house? When did you move in?

Check with power company and see if it was that high over the previous year before you moved in. Tell them your problem. Many electric companies will come out and audit your house and suggest ways to conserve / find problems.

If they won't, look for a good home inspector.

Otherwise, look at your meter and the rate at which you're normally consuming electricity. Shut things down one at a time and see what happens.

**Donna** · 10-31-2005, 02:49 PM

If your electricity bill is for the summer months, it's probably in the ballpark. That a/c really pulls $$$. You did not say whether you had a pool or how it is heated. Our place is about 4,200 sq. ft. on three levels and our summer electric bills run between $400 and $500 per month from May through September. But from Oct. through mid-March, they drop back to about $150 a month. Of course, we don't usually have people in the house then.

We did a thorough energy inspection of our house after we purchased it and here are some things that can really make a big difference. Good luck.

(1) Furnace and a/c filters should be changed monthly. Failure to do so translates into much larger utilities bills and can even result in system failure.

(2) Management companies (and some renters) adjust the refrigerator temps far too low, draining power. We have our housekeeper readjust the thermostat in our fridges after each renter leaves and then we keep it as low as possible during the off-season months. Turn ice-makers off then.

(3) Renters will often crank your thermostat down as low as it will go, then leave doors and windows open. You might consider putting a monitor on your thermostat. However, we feel that renters should be comfortable when they are paying. So as an alternative, we have those self-closer things on all our French doors to the outside. At least the doors are not propped open with the a/c going full-tilt boogie.

(4) Finally, you can have Chelco do an energy audit at no cost to you. They are pretty nice folks.

**Mermaid** · 10-31-2005, 03:08 PM

I think it's a good idea to have the place audited by the power company. And Donna sure had some good checklists to plow through. Have you looked on the website for the power company? There's usually a whole host of info you can go through--maybe something will pop out at you.

What are your windows like? If they're old windows you could be getting a lot of air leakage. What temp do you set your thermostat at, also?

**Landlocked** · 10-31-2005, 03:10 PM

Thanks for the advice. The house was built in the seventies and we have owned it for about five years now and the power bill has gradually gotten bigger from year to year.

I also had the attic insulated last winter and it did help with the AC but not with the power bill.

One thing worrying me is we pop lightbulbs like crazy. I'm always replacing them. I'm really hoping this is not a wiring problem/fire hazard.

I've learned alot of things after buying this (our first) house.

1. Go to the home at night and sit on the back porch for a few hours and simply listen for things you hear.

2. Never buy a home with a ditch ANYWHERE near it. Mosquitos

3. Never buy the lowest house on the block. WET YARD.

4. Never buy a home with aluminum wiring.

5. Before closing, do a history check on all utilities.

6. Turn on every source of water in the house all at once and watch the drains.

7. Make sure the attic is decked.

(funny story behind that one).

**Wastin Away** · 10-31-2005, 03:23 PM

With the age of the home, if you are planning on staying a while, I would put storm windows on. I bet your windows are single pane. A friend of mine did that and saw a big decrease in her electric and heating bill. Also, our power company came out and did an assessment and a big part of our bill are the appliances we have running, plus my kids can't seem to get the concept of turning lights off when they leave a room.

**Landlocked** · 10-31-2005, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Wastin Away

With the age of the home, if you are planning on staying a while, I would put storm windows on. I bet your windows are single pane. A friend of mine did that and saw a big decrease in her electric and heating bill. Also, our power company came out and did an assessment and a big part of our bill are the appliances we have running, plus my kids can't seem to get the concept of turning lights off when they leave a room.

I'm definitely going to look into storm windows. You can put your hand up to the window in the winter and feel the cold air coming in. One day we'll get it straight.

**BeachDreamer** · 10-31-2005, 03:51 PM

I've been researching this too, since our bill is nearly double this year what it was last year. For one thing, entergy prices go up or down according to area storms, etc. So your electricity is probably higher per kwh than previously. If you have older appliances, a lot is going to that. A new refrigerator will be much more energy efficient than a 5+ year old one. Your water heater can be set on a lower temperature to save money. Those are just a few things I've been learning, painfully. We just bought a register booster, also, that goes over the vent and sucks out 80% more heated or cooled air. We will be using it in the furthest room from the central unit. Hubby sleeps during the day and needs it cool in there, and it's the hottest room in the house, so I know that's where a LOT of our money is going.

**Donna** · 10-31-2005, 05:02 PM

Yes, yes, yes...on the water heater temp! Our utilities bills shot up one month and we discovered that the hot water was scalding when it came out of the tap. This is a very big one. I can also vouch that double-paned windows make a huge difference in heating and cooling costs. They are more expensive and require replacing when the moisture seal is broken. So you will want to have anyone powerwashing your house to be careful of the windows. Powerwashing is worse than a hurricane for breaking these seals.

If you have a pool, a heat pump is a far more effective way to heat the pool than heating with natural gas.

We have also discovered a few dripping faucets here and there, which made a difference in our water bills. You wouldn't think that one drip could make a noticeable difference, but it does, as does the month you have a powerwash.

**Smiling JOe** · 10-31-2005, 05:12 PM

If your hot water heater is in an uninsulated part of the house, that can cause crazy energy bills, esp in the winter. You can wrap it in an insulated jacket made specifically for hot water heaters. This will help tremendously. Also, you may have to get the timers out for the showers.

Just remember what Dr Phil says, "you can be right, or you can be happy." -- even if it hurts the pocketbook. Whatever you do, do not stop the long hot water baths and showers for Mrs Landlocked. They are much less expensive than the marriage councilling will be if you try to time her showers.

**Bob** · 10-31-2005, 09:27 PM

Replace the windows...double panes are a cheap fix....check that the element in the water heater is clean....set it to 120 degrees....put the water heater on a mechanical timer,... is there a leak in the hot water line somewhere? ....make sure, if you have a heat pump, that,in the heat mode, the compressor is running, not just the heat strips. Check how well the exterior doors seal air...change all light bulbs to flourescent[costco], If you have can lights in the ceiling, make sure they don't leak air, insulate the attic, conversely does the attic allow for proper ventilation. get rid of older appliances[10 yrs.plus], clean the mildew off roof shingles, are the shingles a dark color? analyze the perimeter of the house...is an asphalt driveway too near one exterior wall contributing to heat gain. How many computers/tvs are left on continuosly..small aplliances on...any grow lights for pot cultivation left on in the master bedroom?

**OhioBeachBum** · 11-01-2005, 07:43 AM

LL - I noticed one of the items in your "watch out for" list...
Does your current home have aluminum wiring???

**Landlocked** · 11-01-2005, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by OhioBeachBum

LL - I noticed one of the items in your "watch out for" list...
Does your current home have aluminum wiring???

Yes, unfortunately it does.

**Miss Kitty** · 11-01-2005, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Landlocked

Yes, unfortunately it does.

Put that at the top of your list for replacing!!!!

**Landlocked** · 11-01-2005, 08:13 AM

About the aluminum wiring, I will have to have it replaced one day. This is unfortunately going to be a costly update, not to mention, they're going to have to cut holes in walls, etc.

Not long ago, we had a light switch that was installed upside down, so, I took off the plate, and unscrewed the switch to flip it over. I turned the switch a half turn and one of the dang wires twisted in half and broke. Aluminum wiring is the stupidest idea anyone ever had. The stuff is dangerous. If you have a loose connection somewhere, it causes HEAT. How smart is that? Even smarter than that, is the person who buys a home with aluminum wiring? Yep, that would be me.

**OhioBeachBum** · 11-01-2005, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Landlocked

About the aluminum wiring, I will have to have it replaced one day. This is unfortunately going to be a costly update, not to mention, they're going to have to cut holes in walls, etc.

Not long ago, we had a light switch that was installed upside down, so, I took off the plate, and unscrewed the switch to flip it over. I turned the switch a half turn and one of the dang wires twisted in half and broke. Aluminum wiring is the stupidest idea anyone ever had. The stuff is dangerous. If you have a loose connection somewhere, it causes HEAT. How smart is that? Even smarter than that, is the person who buys a home with aluminum wiring? Yep, that would be me.

Worse, heat causes fire (much greater potential than with CU) and heat is energy wasted. You don't have to replace the wiring - you can mitigate with COPALUM pigtails at all the connection points for about 1/5 of total wiring replacement cost:
http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum.htm
http://www.montanahomeinspectors.com...o/aluminum.htm
http://tooling.tycoelectronics.com/wiring_dangers.stm

Some more questions:
Basement, crawlspace, or slab?
Ranch or multi-story?
All electric or fossil / electric mix?

**Landlocked** · 11-01-2005, 09:18 AM

OBB-

From one of your links:

"A lot of times people ask me for an estimate on rewiring," said Bob Krebs, vice president of Hawkins Electric Services in Hyattsville, another authorized COPALUM installer. "But I won't even give them one 'cause you might as well tear the whole house down."

That's just freakin' great!

The house is a one story ranch on a slab with electric only.

Anybody want to buy a house? Ha ha

**OhioBeachBum** · 11-01-2005, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Landlocked

The house is a one story ranch on a slab with electric only.
Anybody want to buy a house? Ha ha

The pigtails are an OK alternative - fixes the problem points.
Your monthly elec cost seems dramatically out of line, if I have my info right. The high (apparent) elec use + AL wiring + all you've replaced makes me nervous. Marginal connections (that's what happens with AL) burn power, in addition to other obvious hazard. I'd dig into that PDQ.

My area, elec is around 8-9 cents per KWh and net shopping suggests price in your area is lower, in the 6-7 cents per KWh range. I was paying (in 2001) about $160/mo for an all electric 1800 sq/ft place (and I had a well pump in the mix then as well) - rates were slightly lower then. That was nearly 200/mo when I first picked up that place in '95, and elec was even cheaper then!
Here's what I did (mostly echos of what bob & SJ already mentioned):

Vent the attic properly. Major bang for the buck. Soffit vents between each truss. Continuous ridge cap vents. Gable end vents (and I had to hack through brick to put those in!). Lowers temp in attic, less delta between attic and living space, keeps insul dry, more efficient.
Windows. If you can "feel" air, you're throwing major $$ out the window. In '95 I replaced all the windows in that place with argon filled double-pane, solar reflective coating, vinyl stuff - old windows were double pane metal frames, leaked like the dickens. Cost about 5K then, shaved about $25/mo off my bill right off the bat. If you're handy (I saw your shop product, you can handle this ), Pella custom sized replacements, install yourself. A neighbor back then did this, one or two a month.
Match heat pump / exchanger properly to living space. Either too big or too small wastes significant energy. Hopefully, folks that handled your new stuff did that math right. Have refrigerant pressure & HP checked every year.
Electric W/H elements tend to crap out every 6-8 years or so, usually top one first. Drain the W/H every year to get lime out of bottom. Set to no more than 130, 120 even better, and carefully match top & bottom element settings. If running out of hot water frequently, go to a 50 gal unit. Put an insul blanket on it.
Install flow-limited shower heads. You end up not using as much (hot) water, and I sure don't notice any difference showering.
Keep your dryer vent clean. A little lint build up increases dryer time, and they're expensive to run.
Replace incandescent light bulbs with those fluorescent gizmos. Pricey initially, but a 35W fluorescent puts out as much light as a 100W incandescent, and lasts much, much longer.
Programmable thermostat. Auto adjust temp by as little as 2 degrees when sleeping and/or not at home saves $$.
Weather seal around doors & add quality storm doors can save $$.
If your walls are not insulated (some still in 70's were built without), major $$ going out there. You can have retrofit foam installed. Not cheap, but major energy savings over uninsulated walls.
Whole house fan & ceiling fans. Can buy you an additional 8-14 A/C free weeks per year. Ceiling fans can make higher A/C setting feel more acceptable.
You didn't say whether you had a well. Replacing an old pump with a new more efficient model can save $$.

Most utility companies will do a free energy audit. Have them check your meter - make sure it's calibrated/functioning correctly, particularly if your neighbors are paying much less for similar sized homes. Friend had that done, found meter was faulty (got a big refund check and a new meter).

**kathydwells** · 11-01-2005, 01:08 PM

LL, my house was built in 1980. I have lived there 12 years. My utility bills for the first 3 years I lived there were about $250 - $300 a month. My heat pump ran all the time and it never seemed to be cool enough/warm enough. The heat pump finall went out. The utility company came and did an energy save audit on my house. He discovered that the unit that was there was never large enough for the house. We bought a new heat pump, and had some duct work done. The largest utility bill I have had since then is $164.00. The new heat pump paid for itself. Just wanted to let you know my experience....Good Luck!