Forest Lakes vs. The Preserve

[thxrover]

Our in-laws are wanting to get back in the panhandle real estate roller coaster ride and are looking at both The Preserve and at Forest Lakes. They got in almost 13 years ago and three houses later, they got out in the right time in 2006 literally weeks before the downward turn started to be evident.

Any opinions, pros, cons about either development? Beach access, location, rental potential, longevity of neighborhood, builders/developers in the neighborhoods, topography problems, etc...

I have my own opinions and they're about to pull the trigger in one of these neighborhoods, but was wanting to get some outside opinions as well...

Thanks in advance.

[Franny]

Our in-laws are wanting to get back in the panhandle real estate roller coaster ride and are looking at both The Preserve and at Forest Lakes. They got in almost 13 years ago and three houses later, they got out in the right time in 2006 literally weeks before the downward turn started to be evident.

Any opinions, pros, cons about either development? Beach access, location, rental potential, longevity of neighborhood, builders/developers in the neighborhoods, topography problems, etc...

I have my own opinions and they're about to pull the trigger in one of these neighborhoods, but was wanting to get some outside opinions as well...

Thanks in advance.

I personally like both the Preserve and Forest Lakes, but if I had to choose it would be Forest Lakes. The design inspiration came from homes in Eufala, Al., which are unique for our area. And I love the ponds on this property as well as the community pool area. I believe the beach access and rental opportunity would be about the same for both developments, although The Preserve is built out more. I would recommend calling a property mgt. company if rentals are an important component. You can choose your builder for either development if I remember correctly and I can find this out for you. Just send me a PM.

[scooterbug44]

I'd check the financials on Forest Lakes - seemed like there were quite a few short sale lots in there.

Both seem like nice places based on my limited knowledge of them, but I think Forest Lakes has a better feel/quality level than the Preserve.

[Franny]

I checked MLS and there are 24 lots for sale with four 'stated' bank owned or short sales. The price of these lots are from $119,000 to $475,000.

[SWGB]

I thought that the Preserve was a non-rental community?

[Franny]

I thought that the Preserve was a non-rental community?

ThePreserve at Grayton is a rental community.

[SHELLY]

Here's a tip for anyone considering buying in a subdivision/condo--request back issues of HOA minutes. If the subdivision/condo is populated by involved end-users, you'll get a good snapshot of the financial stability (investulator foreclosures causing special assessments? etc.) and issues, big and small, faced by the owners. However, if the subdivision/condo is still under the developer's control, the minutes won't be a reliable source of information.

.

[thxrover]

that's a good idea with requesting the minutes. hadn't thought of that before.

[SWGB]

ThePreserve at Grayton is a rental community.

Thanks, got it confused with another one.

[Smiling JOe]

Shelly brings up a good idea, but one doesn't have to go to that extreme to see if HOA dues could be short, collectively. It is pretty much a guarantee that people who aren't making their payments to the lender (ie- short sales and foreclosures, plus banks are not typically very timely with such things), aren't making dues payments either. Being that both projects have very few homes built out, and both projects sold within a matter of days, initially, during the peak of the market, it is likely that HOA fees are short, and will be made up by either assessments, or a lack of services and maintenance.

That said, if only choosing between the two for a place to live (you didn't really go into detail, and it sounds like it may just be a place to park money), I like them both, but I think Forest Lakes has more appeal with the rolling hillsides, and little variation on the typical Florida Cracker style homes. Both have a pool, and the Preserve has tennis courts, but Forest Lakes has several lakes and it's a larger area, giving more likelihood of having a neighborhood, where people can ride bikes or walk the 'hood. Of course, both are on 30A and the multi-use paths are right there, but I personally like walking the hood, rather than linear walk to and fro.

[pk305]

does forest lakes have dedicated beach access?


I know that Preserve @ Grayton does....

[fisher]

Our in-laws are wanting to get back in the panhandle real estate roller coaster ride and are looking at both The Preserve and at Forest Lakes. They got in almost 13 years ago and three houses later, they got out in the right time in 2006 literally weeks before the downward turn started to be evident.

Any opinions, pros, cons about either development? Beach access, location, rental potential, longevity of neighborhood, builders/developers in the neighborhoods, topography problems, etc...

I have my own opinions and they're about to pull the trigger in one of these neighborhoods, but was wanting to get some outside opinions as well...

Thanks in advance.

FLHOA has placed liens on 8 properties and Preserve HOA has placed liens on 17 properties over the last year and a half. Almost assuredly for unpaid dues. And, I am sure that I have seen numerous foreclosures in these developments too. Buyer beware.

[fisher]

I checked MLS and there are 24 lots for sale with four 'stated' bank owned or short sales. The price of these lots are from $119,000 to $475,000.

What about the 40 plus lots still owned by the developer???

[SWGB]

does forest lakes have dedicated beach access?


I know that Preserve @ Grayton does....

I don't believe so, the closest would be the access behind Goat Feathers. Another reason to buy at the Preserve.

[Franny]

What about the 40 plus lots still owned by the developer???

They have not been listed on mls.

[AAbsolute]

They have not been listed on mls.

Aren't those remaining Forrest Lakes developer lots being acquired by development partners?

[thxrover]

What about the 40 plus lots still owned by the developer???

So Forest Lakes still has unsold lots? What about The Preserve? Did all those lots get sold in the first go-around?

I was aware that FL did not have beach access unless you go to Gulfview Heights.

[Smiling JOe]

To clarify, all Forest Lakes lots which were released to the public, sold very quickly, in a very short period. Even more quickly, they were flipped for double the money in many cases.

[fisher]

To clarify, all Forest Lakes lots which were released to the public, sold very quickly, in a very short period. Even more quickly, they were flipped for double the money in many cases.

That's great for the sellers/flippers, not so great for the buyers/second owners.

Not sure what you were clarifying, but there are still 40 or so unsold original developer lots aren't there???

[fisher]

They have not been listed on mls.

I understand that. I was just clarifying for the poster that there are more lots out there than those listed on the MLS.

[Smiling JOe]

I only bring it up b/c there are other projects which were started soon after, which never sold out the released lots. For Forest Lakes, the developer sold what they wanted/needed to. My guess is that the remaining 40 lots, if there are (I haven't bothered to look), were all gravy. So, while the HOA may be in trouble, at least it won't all likely go back to the bank, except for a couple of lots, like another local project I can think of.

[Franny]

I understand that. I was just clarifying for the poster that there are more lots out there than those listed on the MLS.

I will check with the developer and let you know.

[Franny]

That's great for the sellers/flippers, not so great for the buyers/second owners.

Not sure what you were clarifying, but there are still 40 or so unsold original developer lots aren't there???

The original lots sold for $103-105,000. And yes some were flipped for as much as $400+, but there are lots available now for $119,000. A good price imo.

[Franny]

I will check with the developer and let you know.

The developer owned lots are in Phase lll and Ph lV. There are currently three dev owned lots on mls. Lot 1 PH lV for $152,000. Lot 14 for $175,000 and Lot 15 for $175,000. I do not know when others will be released, but if someone was interested in a particuliar lot that is not on the market I am sure the developers would sell. Hope this helps.

[SWGB]

I know in other developments I've seen developer lots go back to the development company to avoid paying property taxes.

[AAbsolute]

I know in other developments I've seen developer lots go back to the development company to avoid paying property taxes.

How does that work?

[AAbsolute]

The developer owned lots are in Phase lll and Ph lV. There are currently three dev owned lots on mls. Lot 1 PH lV for $152,000. Lot 14 for $175,000 and Lot 15 for $175,000. I do not know when others will be released, but if someone was interested in a particuliar lot that is not on the market I am sure the developers would sell. Hope this helps.

Doesn't this make Watersound West Beach look pretty good at about the same price, but South of 30A with amenities and a private beach access? I hate to sound like a broken record, but JOE seems to be trying to take every competing developers head off.

[fisher]

Doesn't this make Watersound West Beach look pretty good at about the same price, but South of 30A with amenities and a private beach access? I hate to sound like a broken record, but JOE seems to be trying to take every competing developers head off.

I agree with you on West Beach vs forest lakes. I would even take Phase IV of Watercolor. With both the joe properties you get beach access and very nice amenities, especially in Watercolor. However, all three of these areas are ghost towns with almost no developed homes and probably will remain that way for a long, long time.

[DuneLaker]

No broken record. Sometimes it is good to repeat information. WaterSound West Beach is all those things; south of 30A, beach access, etc. Why struggle if you don't have to? I lived here in a "ghost town" for over 30 years and it was great.

[SWGB]

How does that work?

Okay, I should have clarified that I have seen some properties transfered back from the developers personal names to the development company. This is either to avoid property taxes or have the development company pay the property taxes.

[Bobby J]

Our in-laws are wanting to get back in the panhandle real estate roller coaster ride and are looking at both The Preserve and at Forest Lakes. They got in almost 13 years ago and three houses later, they got out in the right time in 2006 literally weeks before the downward turn started to be evident.

Any opinions, pros, cons about either development? Beach access, location, rental potential, longevity of neighborhood, builders/developers in the neighborhoods, topography problems, etc...

I have my own opinions and they're about to pull the trigger in one of these neighborhoods, but was wanting to get some outside opinions as well...

Thanks in advance.

I like the Preserve because parking is better. Drive around both hoods and picture about 3 cars at your home. Lots of problems with the way Forest is laid out IMO.

[Franny]

Doesn't this make Watersound West Beach look pretty good at about the same price, but South of 30A with amenities and a private beach access? I hate to sound like a broken record, but JOE seems to be trying to take every competing developers head off.

Depending on what the buyer is looking for...Watersound West is a very nice development and will most likely be a second home community, where as I believe Forest Lakes is becoming more of a permanent home for peeps. I have numerous buyers locally and those relocating to the area that request communities made up of permanent neighbors vs second home communities.

[AAbsolute]

Depending on what the buyer is looking for...Watersound West is a very nice development and will most likely be a second home community, where as I believe Forest Lakes is becoming more of a permanent home for peeps. I have numerous buyers locally and those relocating to the area that request communities made up of permanent neighbors vs second home communities.

Good point. Some people I know think Watersound West Beach is going to be primarily permanent residences, but I thought it might turn out very much like Watercolor's primary vs. vacation ratio. I believe there are only 2 full time out of the 7 complete so far in West Beach.

[SWGB]

The other issue to consider is the HOA dues. I'm fairly confident in stating that Forest Lakes will never come close to Watersound.

[AAbsolute]

The other issue to consider is the HOA dues. I'm fairly confident in stating that Forest Lakes will never come close to Watersound.

I think we paid about $700 per quarter at Watersound West Beach. It did come with a pretty nice pool and clubhouse (till it burned) The Watersound Fitness center was in the amenities package too which is a pretty upscale community fitness center. I need to learn more about the Preserve and Forrest Lakes amenities package.

I can't get past a conversation I had with Larry Pinnock from LUK the week before they offered and sold out Draper Lake. He told me straight up when talking about Draper that the area was just one terrorist attack or hint of the bubble bursting from a total collapse. I thought he was crazy when he said it, but LUK must have had a very expensive and thorough think tank somewhere, because it seems they were ahead of their time when they knew that.

Every time I pass there I can't help but have that run through my mind like it was yesterday. At Rosemary they nurtured the value in a very different way than they sold out Draper immediately.

[SWGB]

I think we paid about $700 per quarter at Watersound West Beach. It did come with a pretty nice pool and clubhouse (till it burned) The Watersound Fitness center was in the amenities package too which is a pretty upscale community fitness center. I need to learn more about the Preserve and Forrest Lakes amenities package.

I can't get past a conversation I had with Larry Pinnock from LUK the week before they offered and sold out Draper Lake. He told me straight up when talking about Draper that the area was just one terrorist attack or hint of the bubble bursting from a total collapse. I thought he was crazy when he said it, but LUK must have had a very expensive and thorough think tank somewhere, because it seems they were ahead of their time when they knew that.

Every time I pass there I can't help but have that run through my mind like it was yesterday. At Rosemary they nurtured the value in a very different way than they sold out Draper immediately.

I would wager that Forest and Preserve aren't nearly that. When did the clubhouse burn?

I've had the terrorist conversation before as well, but it tends to be any small town tourist area. Anyone could drive a van into Seaside on a major holiday weekend and the fallout would be horrible. However, we haven't had that and it tends toward panic more than anything.

[AAbsolute]

I would wager that Forest and Preserve aren't nearly that. When did the clubhouse burn?

I've had the terrorist conversation before as well, but it tends to be any small town tourist area. Anyone could drive a van into Seaside on a major holiday weekend and the fallout would be horrible. However, we haven't had that and it tends toward panic more than anything.

The West Beach Pool Clubhouse burned up May 15, 2008. I was in Watersound Beach and the guy I was with was also a firefighter. We went over there and I got a couple pictures of the JOE sales and executive staff watching the happenings.

[SWGB]

So they're just leaving it alone or are they rebuilding?

[AAbsolute]

So they're just leaving it alone or are they rebuilding?

JOE told me they were rebuilding immediately on May 16, but I have not seen any work start. I stopped checking in on it a month or two ago.

[SWGB]

JOE told me they were rebuilding immediately on May 16, but I have not seen any work start. I stopped checking in on it a month or two ago.

Probably waiting on an insurance settlement.

[AAbsolute]

Probably waiting on an insurance settlement.

That's what I would do to if I were in JOE's position. Having $70,000,0000 of real estate to sell in there and all.