There isn't really a good old boy network, is there?

[AAbsolute]

I've been trying to show that there is an Undercurrent and Good Old Boy Network in this area for 7 years. Does anyone around here understand that point and click justice goes both ways? Your group won't always be in power and that's why America settled on the Constitution. These backroom activities are the biggest affront to American free society today.

http://www.newsherald.com/articles/s...y_trouble.html

[florida girl]

I think the Andy Griffith Show portrayed the good ole boy idea at it's best. However, real life does not always, if ever, have an "Andy" as it's Sheriff, nor a community with a strong moral fiber. There is nothing hidden that cannot be revealed, and as long as we have freedom to speak concerning issues, we still can hope for a better life.

[AAbsolute]

I think the Andy Griffith Show portrayed the good ole boy idea at it's best. However, real life does not always, if ever, have an "Andy" as it's Sheriff, nor a community with a strong moral fiber. There is nothing hidden that cannot be revealed, and as long as we have freedom to speak concerning issues, we still can hope for a better life.

Amen to the Freedom of Speech. Knowledge is Power. Knowledge limited to the priveleged is otherwise.

[Santiago]

I've been trying to show that there is an Undercurrent and Good Old Boy Network in this area for 7 years. Does anyone around here understand that point and click justice goes both ways? Your group won't always be in power and that's why America settled on the Constitution. These backroom activities are the biggest affront to American free society today.

http://www.newsherald.com/articles/s...y_trouble.html

I knew Ryder Larramore many years ago and he was a train wreck then. Some things never change.

[AAbsolute]

I knew Ryder Larramore many years ago and he was a train wreck then. Some things never change.

So I might know him by 3 degrees of seperation?

[SWGB]

I think the title of the thread is wrong. Perhaps something along the lines of, "Will people who have known each other their entire lives keep doing special favors for each other and ignore outsiders?"

AAbsolute I know you are from the North, I have many relatives from the north who make jokes about the good ol' boy network. However, the same thing happens up north too and is generally even more pervasive through the use of unions, fraternal organizations, and trade organizations.

Perhaps it's not so much an attempt to keep you out of the loop as retaliation for someone who makes blanket statements about an entire county or segment of population. Regardless if this was 50 years ago you'd have already gotten a visit from the Sheriff and the unwelcome wagon.

[florida girl]

I think there are 2 entirely different thoughts on "good ole boys",
1. Crooks in positions of authority who excuse their friends and relatives;
2. Honorable individuals who don't like one group picking on another, that follow a basic moral opinion.

[Mango]

I've been trying to show that there is an Undercurrent and Good Old Boy Network in this area for 7 years. Does anyone around here understand that point and click justice goes both ways? Your group won't always be in power and that's why America settled on the Constitution. These backroom activities are the biggest affront to American free society today.

http://www.newsherald.com/articles/s...y_trouble.html

AA, why waste useful energy pontificating on what is inherently human nature everywhere and the bane of small town politics. I am of the idea that when one uses the cat box and it gets covered over, eventually it rises back up to the top and gets stepped in. So, people get what's coming due eventually. Your energies could be channeled towards the betterment of your community and would in all likelihood eventually prove to be fruitful in all facets of your life.

[Creeklover]

If you can't beat them join them

[scooterbug44]

I don't think anyone doubts the existence of the "good ol' boy network". Just as in many other places it's not necessarily what you know, it's WHO you know.

The best way to get rid of it is through transparency and everyone becoming actively involved in the government and politics and demanding accountability.

[AAbsolute]

If you can't beat them join them

Where do I sign up?

[ShallowsNole]

If I were a betting person, I would wager that there is not nearly the amount of what most would call "good old boy" politics now as there may have been in the past. Depending on how you define good old boy, of course.

Taking Scooter's definition about who you know, I know just about all of them, and it really doesn't help me one way or the other. It does make me more comfortable when I have to talk to one or more of our local officials, but that's about it.

So, no, I don't believe we have a good old boy network. If we did, I'd be slap in the middle of it, and I get no favors. (But my road did get paved!)

[AAbsolute]

AA, why waste useful energy pontificating on what is inherently human nature everywhere and the bane of small town politics. I am of the idea that when one uses the cat box and it gets covered over, eventually it rises back up to the top and gets stepped in. So, people get what's coming due eventually. Your energies could be channeled towards the betterment of your community and would in all likelihood eventually prove to be fruitful in all facets of your life.

I appreciate your points, believe me.

Short story from earlier today: I'm in a hearing on a Motion in Judges Chambers. During witness cross-examination I ask the witness how she knows that a certain property sold for a certain amount. She says, public record. I ask, what does that mean exactly. Now squirming, she says, I looked it up in the Official Records. Again I ask, what precisely did you look at to determine your opinion. Now red faced and stammering her attorney writes/slides her a note on a sticky that says in bold:$900,000 DOC STAMPS. I was lucky to see the quick switch and bring it to Judges attention. He looks at me and shrugs his shoulders.

[Bob Wells]

Letslook at another example of Good Ol Boy system at work. An article in the NWF Daily News talking about the new hangar/ classrooms/ hurricane shelter. A story of why it was needed and how great it will be. Today, Sheriff Morris in a letter to the editor talks about Speaker Sansom and his tireless work of behalf of the people. I understand the articles, I understand the purpose, had there not been the appearance of improprietynothing would have been said. I don't know when friends and political allies come to his rescue make him look any less culpable for his actions. I hope the process works, I hope a Grnd Jury is put together, I hope the States Attorney looks at this and if there is evidence, to move forward and allow the legal system to work. That being said, I hope the Good Ol Boy system fails and honesty and fairness rule.

[Here4Good]

Here's my .02: I grew up in downstate Illinois, where politicians followed the lead of their Chicago brethren. These guys ran their own network, but they still had to get elected in the first place and to do that they always made sure that things got taken care of for the general public. You could always bet on the snow being cleared (immediately), the schools getting funded, the parks having nice pools and skating rinks and the public offices being efficiently run. If you had a problem with anything, you called your alderman/councilman and complained until it was made right. It was all about constituent services, and as long as everything ran smoothly, no one said anything about the family members who got the snow removal contracts or the fact that the councilman's wife was the highest paid admin at the Overseer of the Poor's office.

Here, it seems to me, that if you are not in the immediate circle, they don't even pretend to serve your needs. You can get elected just with your circle (as we saw in our last Commission race) and so you don't need a broader constituency. It's like the county was so small, for so long, that they just do business the way they always did when it was all kinfolk and ignore everybody else. When you ask your commissioner about something, you get a vague answer from their assistants, and no follow up. I always feel like I am being pesky when I ask them what happened to a certain initiative or project.

Shallowsnole, you joke that you got your road paved, but you have something else - a County job. That's no small feat, they are the only steady employer around here with full benefits. Maybe that's why things are still the way they are, there is no one else with any power that they have to answer to.

[AAbsolute]

Ex Parte is always wrong in government activities. Who here will say it's o.k.???

[scooterbug44]

These guys ran their own network, but they still had to get elected in the first place and to do that they always made sure that things got taken care of for the general public. It was all about constituent services, and as long as everything ran smoothly, no one said anything about the family members who got the snow removal contracts or the fact that the councilman's wife was the highest paid admin at the Overseer of the Poor's office.

Here, it seems to me, that if you are not in the immediate circle, they don't even pretend to serve your needs. You can get elected just with your circle (as we saw in our last Commission race) and so you don't need a broader constituency. It's like the county was so small, for so long, that they just do business the way they always did when it was all kinfolk and ignore everybody else.

The first system you mentioned works because it benefits the voters and the politicos, the second doesn't because it only benefits the politicos, so the voters eventually get rid of them and then have many messes to clean up.

It's still sort of corrupt, but it sure gets things done and they take great care of the old people.

[Here4Good]

I don't know that we will ever have enough registered voters in District 5 to actually get someone elected, as long as we have county-wide voting for all commission seats.

I know, I've only been here 5 years. We got one "newcomer" elected, and she left after one term, perhaps because she was so outnumbered, I really don't know.

It's not just commission seats, though, it's just the way everything works.

[Here4Good]

And one more thing - I am not even saying that the network doesn't do good things. We get a lot of good projects done, and there are many excellent people working for the county.

I am just saying it's a closed system, which is okay if you're in a monarchy but not so much if you are supposed to be a democracy.

A closed system can't grow with the county, which is what needs to happen.

[Zebraspots]

Some of the nonsense in the commissioner races over the years has been appalling. Makes the "boys from the old neighborhood" look like saints in comparison.

[ShallowsNole]

Here4Good - IIRC, we had single district voting in one election, in the late '80's or early '90s. It was the biggest mess, and we went back to county-wide voting in the next election. If I am not remembering correctly, perhaps someone who keeps better track of these things will post and correct me.

Why was it a mess? We elected the late Col Bob Fleet as our District 5 commissioner, and that was a good thing. However, none of us had any say as to who filled the other four seats. That was not a good thing. If the citizens of South Walton, or DeFuniak, or Eucheeanna, or Choctaw Beach, etc only elect one commissioner, that's one out of 5. And the other four have no responsibility to answer to citizens who do not live in their districts. That might work for state politics, but not in a county. Each elected commissioner and/or school board member represents a district, but answers to every voter in the county. And that is how it should be. The reason that we in SoWal feel that our votes don't count is that the vast majority of us (not necessarily on this board, but the general public) don't come out to vote until the general election. By then, many county races are decided.

In reference to my county job...yes, I work for a constitutional officer. Yes, twelve years ago I went through a competitive interview process after seeing the employment ad in the DeFuniak Herald, but there were still questions about why I was selected, and these questions lingered for several years. Because of certain members of my own family, plus the fact that EVERYBODY knows ShallowsFuzz, it was widely assumed that the good old boy network was alive and well. And I felt insulted and hurt, because I had worked very, very hard for the education that, at the time, was a prerequisite for my position. I'm still a little defensive, if you can't tell.

As far as it being difficult to get a county job, yes, it is right now because there is a hiring freeze. But in the nearly-twelve years I've worked there, we've gone through probably 25 people - 50 or more, if you count the other offices in the Annex. Therefore, steady is not a word I'd use, and many positions have been available and well advertised. As far as benefits, I ran out of both my dental and chiropractic benefits last year, and last Saturday I paid $80 for a small bottle of prescription eyedrops. I am fortunate in that my family health insurance is paid for because both I and my spouse work for different departments in Walton County. That is actually cheaper for the county than covering us individually would be. However, most of us pay out the yazoo for it, as I did during that time when Fuzz was separated from the WCSO.


And, my road was on the paving list for five years before it actually got done. If I was able to pull any strings, the rest of East Point Washington Road would be paved all the way to 395. But, it's still dirt, despite the increased traffic on it due to all my new neighbors, and I guess it will be until all the new subdivisions that won't sell go in.

Perhaps I should have made this a blog. Unfortunately, I have to go bounce down the dirt road to Publix now.

[AAbsolute]

Here4Good - IIRC, we had single district voting in one election, in the late '80's or early '90s. It was the biggest mess, and we went back to county-wide voting in the next election. If I am not remembering correctly, perhaps someone who keeps better track of these things will post and correct me.

Why was it a mess? We elected the late Col Bob Fleet as our District 5 commissioner, and that was a good thing. However, none of us had any say as to who filled the other four seats. That was not a good thing. If the citizens of South Walton, or DeFuniak, or Eucheeanna, or Choctaw Beach, etc only elect one commissioner, that's one out of 5. And the other four have no responsibility to answer to citizens who do not live in their districts. That might work for state politics, but not in a county. Each elected commissioner and/or school board member represents a district, but answers to every voter in the county. And that is how it should be. The reason that we in SoWal feel that our votes don't count is that the vast majority of us (not necessarily on this board, but the general public) don't come out to vote until the general election. By then, many county races are decided.

In reference to my county job...yes, I work for a constitutional officer. Yes, twelve years ago I went through a competitive interview process after seeing the employment ad in the DeFuniak Herald, but there were still questions about why I was selected, and these questions lingered for several years. Because of certain members of my own family, plus the fact that EVERYBODY knows ShallowsFuzz, it was widely assumed that the good old boy network was alive and well. And I felt insulted and hurt, because I had worked very, very hard for the education that, at the time, was a prerequisite for my position. I'm still a little defensive, if you can't tell.

As far as it being difficult to get a county job, yes, it is right now because there is a hiring freeze. But in the nearly-twelve years I've worked there, we've gone through probably 25 people - 50 or more, if you count the other offices in the Annex. Therefore, steady is not a word I'd use, and many positions have been available and well advertised. As far as benefits, I ran out of both my dental and chiropractic benefits last year, and last Saturday I paid $80 for a small bottle of prescription eyedrops. I am fortunate in that my family health insurance is paid for because both I and my spouse work for different departments in Walton County. That is actually cheaper for the county than covering us individually would be. However, most of us pay out the yazoo for it, as I did during that time when Fuzz was separated from the WCSO.


And, my road was on the paving list for five years before it actually got done. If I was able to pull any strings, the rest of East Point Washington Road would be paved all the way to 395. But, it's still dirt, despite the increased traffic on it due to all my new neighbors, and I guess it will be until all the new subdivisions that won't sell go in.

Perhaps I should have made this a blog. Unfortunately, I have to go bounce down the dirt road to Publix now.

I hope you don't hold this against me,,,really. You know a thing or two about the area. Is there a network within the Powers of Justice that pass favor or not?

If you see me out and about I will submit to flogging for asking you point blank. I deserve it, but I just know you know.

[florida girl]

SN, remember how long it took to get Powerline Road paved? Col. Fleet was our hero and actually got it done! What a guy! Can't say much for his foreman... I like the at large elections, really has nothing to do with SoWaller's, it has to do with culture, ideals, and what matters most to those of similar opinions. Commissioners should work for all the people in their district particularly, not just their particular groups. Our former representative tended to favor her own, not the whole.

[SWGB]

I appreciate your points, believe me.

Short story from earlier today: I'm in a hearing on a Motion in Judges Chambers. During witness cross-examination I ask the witness how she knows that a certain property sold for a certain amount. She says, public record. I ask, what does that mean exactly. Now squirming, she says, I looked it up in the Official Records. Again I ask, what precisely did you look at to determine your opinion. Now red faced and stammering her attorney writes/slides her a note on a sticky that says in bold:$900,000 DOC STAMPS. I was lucky to see the quick switch and bring it to Judges attention. He looks at me and shrugs his shoulders.

When did you receive your law degree?

[AAbsolute]

When did you receive your law degree?

I wish I was an attorney. I only represent myself, sometimes. I read some stuff I found called the Constitution a couple times. That lead me to read the writings of Tom Jefferson. Which usually leads a novice to read transcripts of Abe Lincoln's examinations. Then I was hooked, and had to read this book called Black's Law cover to cover. It's a trap though, once you read Black's you're stuck buying and reading everything ever written by Bryan Garner. That's how they get you.

And I thought I was streetsmart, I fell for the oldest trick in the book.

[Here4Good]

SN, I think this is my point - I am not saying that the system doesn't work most of the time, I am just saying it is closed. I know that the hiring process for the county is fair; frankly, everyone I have worked with in the offices at the Annex beats the pants off of the folks I had to deal with in Georgia. Every time I go into Rhonda Skipper's office I want to buy everyone there donuts.

The point is, you are in the network, you know how things work and you know how to get things done. When you are on the outside, things look like a stone wall. We find out about events long after they happen, and when they don't make sense, you can't get an answer from anyone about why they happened (like the ridiculously overpriced parcel the School District bought for the new middle school in PW, or the beachfront property the county bought because the guy wasn't allowed to build condos there, or the county commissioner who built all of the temporary seawalls). When the DEP has to resort to helicopters to find out where temporary seawalls are, you have a closed county government.

I imagine that you and your family have been in the network so long, you can't imagine what it is like to live outside of it and how hard it is to comprehend what it going on.

[SWGB]

I wish I was an attorney. I only represent myself, sometimes. I read some stuff I found called the Constitution a couple times. That lead me to read the writings of Tom Jefferson. Which usually leads a novice to read transcripts of Abe Lincoln's examinations. Then I was hooked, and had to read this book called Black's Law cover to cover. It's a trap though, once you read Black's you're stuck buying and reading everything ever written by Bryan Garner. That's how they get you.

And I thought I was streetsmart, I fell for the oldest trick in the book.

I'm sure you get this all the time in legal proceedings, but you are aware that someone who acts as their own attorney has a fool for a client?

SN, I think this is my point - I am not saying that the system doesn't work most of the time, I am just saying it is closed. I know that the hiring process for the county is fair; frankly, everyone I have worked with in the offices at the Annex beats the pants off of the folks I had to deal with in Georgia. Every time I go into Rhonda Skipper's office I want to buy everyone there donuts.

The point is, you are in the network, you know how things work and you know how to get things done. When you are on the outside, things look like a stone wall. We find out about events long after they happen, and when they don't make sense, you can't get an answer from anyone about why they happened (like the ridiculously overpriced parcel the School District bought for the new middle school in PW, or the beachfront property the county bought because the guy wasn't allowed to build condos there, or the county commissioner who built all of the temporary seawalls). When the DEP has to resort to helicopters to find out where temporary seawalls are, you have a closed county government.

I imagine that you and your family have been in the network so long, you can't imagine what it is like to live outside of it and how hard it is to comprehend what it going on.

I think you are still being incredibly insulting. All of the issues you list are related to the BCC and not the individual county offices. SN is basically low woman on the totem pole. No one other than the Sheriff really has a standing over the BCC. If you want to lose your job with the county real quick though, stand up and point out mistakes, errors, or down right illegal behavior by a memeber of the BCC.

The actions of the BCC are not for the county employees to monitor, but the citizens who elect them.

P.S. I lived in Bay County for 10 years and I can tell you that the county staff in Walton County is beyond superior in knowledge, helpfulness, and overall competency.

[mdd88jd]

I voted against buying the "ridiculously overpriced" parcel for the new middle school. Not so much for the price, which I thought was high, but we bought without access to Highway 98. We eventually got the access, but, that lack of access had me worried.

If I am a good ole boy, and it is arguable that I am, I am not very good at being one. My brother was demoted and my sister fired in a span of 13 months from jobs within in the school system. They both loved those jobs and were crushed by the action. So what does that tell you about "good ole boys" in the school system.

[AAbsolute]

gayboi, you're not telling me anything about having a fool for a client. That I am, very much so.

[Here4Good]

SWGB, I think I already stated that I though the staff here was excellent. Twice.

I also never said that anyone here had anything to do with the events I described.

I said that people in the network have an easier time understanding WHY these things happened.

[Andy A]

I really don't know how pervasive the "good ol' boy" network is at this time but I believe our county commissioners do one whale of a job considering the ordinances they have to work with and all the other obstacles thrown in their faces. The amount of time and effort they expend on issues in comparison to the reimbursement they receive is mind boggling.
All you really have to do is attend a commission meeting or two to understand what I am talking about. They do a superlative job considering all that confronts them.

[SWGB]

SWGB, I think I already stated that I though the staff here was excellent. Twice.

I also never said that anyone here had anything to do with the events I described.

I said that people in the network have an easier time understanding WHY these things happened.

Reread your own post, it's an underhanded compliment. You praise the staff and then go on to say that SN is in the network. She is not, she is a county employee. To imply that the county staff is equal to the good ol' boy network is still an insult.

[scooterbug44]

Members of the good ol' network are not usually the ones staffing the offices. A 9-5 job working for the county is not their goal.

They are the ones donating to campaigns, wining and dining (or golfing) elected officials, meeting their cronies to choose who they want elected, paying their employees cash to vote for certain candidates, and who manage to avoid a lot of paperwork, sunshine laws, and other minor inconveniences others cannot.

[Here4Good]

Then I'm sorry, maybe network is not the right word. "Insider" maybe? I wasn't really thinking that network was an insult. I guess it is.

I understand that the people staffing the offices are not the ones getting the perks from the commissioners. I get it.

I do think that working for the county would give you some insight into the personalities, histories and as I said, the reasons that things happen.

[Miss Kitty]

The good old gull network = The Wenches

[SWGB]

The good old gull network = The Wenches

There's a group that scares the sheet out of me.

[John R]

The good old gull network = The Wenches

one network that really works around here is the coconut telegraph.

[Miss Critter]

There's a group that scares the sheet out of me.

Hmmmm. I could have sworn I saw you hobnobbing with several wenches just the other day. No doubt more that a few will be at Criolla's this morning.

[SWGB]

Hmmmm. I could have sworn I saw you hobnobbing with several wenches just the other day. No doubt more that a few will be at Criolla's this morning.

Shhh, see you there.