Pandora's gets shut down at 9:30 due to Coconut Radio's "loud music"....

**weatabix** · 04-26-2009, 02:59 AM

Somebody calls the police for "breach of the peace" and Pandora's gets shut down....Coconut Radio was on break and the manager gets hauled off to jail.....Let us just say that first of all, Coconut Radio consists of violin and acoustic guitar and volumes were at "acoustic" levels.....The restaurant was doing a brisk business, and the crowd evaporated quickly after the band was shut down, resulting in a large loss of business and revenue for the staff, and the band. When we are all trying to hold onto what we can in this current economic climate, it is vexing to have one or two individuals dictate the paycheck for other hardworking people. Is this the world we have to live in? Why in the world would anyone wish a business to fail right now? These self righteous individuals need to see outside their own back doors and into the world around them. I hope they don't succeed in killing the goose that laid the golden egg....

**Miss Kitty** · 04-26-2009, 07:06 AM

A bunch of us arrived at Pandora's after leaving the soiree on Grayton Beach. Noticed people leaving all at once and once we went in we were told what had occured. Thanks for the full explanation. I do not understand a manager or owner being hauled off to jail for this. Then again, I can't understand building a house backing up to a bar/restaurant and trying to adjust the surroundings to please myself.

**sunspotbaby** · 04-26-2009, 07:37 AM

I don't understand being jailed for this. WTF! People get tickets every day and don't go to jail.

I'll bet our motorcycle was louder than their music. This is just wrong!

Sheriff?????

**lsucajuns** · 04-26-2009, 08:42 AM

You know something, it just makes me so mad I see red. Life is to short for people to go around so cranky. SO this is for you who ever you are that called the police,

1, join the party, who knows you might meet "a" firend, as from the sound of things you don't have any.
2, music is good for the soul, if you could hear it from your house you should have called friends over for your own party, free intertainment.
3 if your that crabby, MOVE
4 Wal-Mart sells ear plugs,
5 My wife works for a retirement home, they are all quite by 8 pm, should we find you a room?
6 Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in Broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming WOW - WHAT A RIDE
7 Find the Loin he needed a heart too!

**bluecat** · 04-26-2009, 08:58 AM

IMO, it is so much easier and more pleasant to live on this earth ( green or not) if one is more tolerant of other folks. I' never heard of music killing anyone and I've lived a long time and enjoyed most of it, and certainly enjoy Pandoras fine steaks and music any time I'm down there. What I'm saying is, whoever complained, next "Sady" put on your fine clothes, go out and enjoy some good food, good music and see if you feel better about the world out side yours.

**DuneAHH** · 04-26-2009, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by miss kitty

a bunch of us arrived at pandora's after leaving the soiree on grayton beach. Noticed people leaving all at once and once we went in we were told what had occured. Thanks for the full explanation. I do not understand a manager or owner being hauled off to jail for this. Then again, i can't understand building a house backing up to a bar/restaurant and trying to adjust the surroundings to please myself.

exactly.

**Smiling JOe** · 04-26-2009, 09:25 AM

WTF? I thought noise ordinance in Grayton didn't start until 10pm anyway?

**avalon** · 04-26-2009, 09:46 AM

I fear that beyond the obvious and immediate effects, the noise ordinance enforcement will give SoWal a bad reputation in general. Are we going to be known as killjoys? People go on vacation to relax and have fun. If music is a bother at 9:30, maybe Del Boca Vista has a unit for you next to the shuffleboard court.

**seagrovegirl** · 04-26-2009, 09:47 AM

I was ther last night and left before the excitement, but the band was not loud....at all!!! Go figure...the night it is toned down is when someone goes to jail.

**Smiling JOe** · 04-26-2009, 09:53 AM

Hey, I like ShuffleBoard.

Maybe Walton County would like for no one to make any noise. No cash registers ringing, no credit card modems sounding, no music, no cars, no people. This place would dry up overnight, and the County coffers would be making a very hollow sound.

**lsucajuns** · 04-26-2009, 10:08 AM

I say we go door to door and find the soul that called, and help move them out of town. We don't need ya hear, you are hurting out pocket book.

**wrobert** · 04-26-2009, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Smiling JOe

Hey, I like ShuffleBoard.

Maybe Walton County would like for no one to make any noise. No cash registers ringing, no credit card modems sounding, no music, no cars, no people. This place would dry up overnight, and the County coffers would be making a very hollow sound.

Some do not like loud music, some do not like Wal mart and drive thru windows. Seems like everyone has an opinion or preference that affects the cash registers of others.

I would imagine that there is quite a bit more to the story than just loud music and an immediate arrest. I am sure it will make it to the Sun before the week is out.

**NightAngel** · 04-26-2009, 11:58 AM

It was always my understanding that the noise ordinance did not start until 11:00, I mean come on, 9:30 on a saturday night??? God forbid some people may be having some fun and some employees may actually be making some money to cover the electric bill.
What is the world is happening to South Walton County

**scooterbug44** · 04-26-2009, 11:59 AM

We need to do something about this problem - it is seriously affecting local businesses.

How can we put it to a vote that we want destination & local weddings, restaurants w/ live music, open-air concerts and events, and common sense....................instead of whiny tattletales who only have funn when ruining other peoples'.

Music being shut down at 9:30 on a saturday night would be considered ridiculous in Grandma Scooterbug's retirement community.

**shellak** · 04-26-2009, 01:08 PM

i agree that there is probably more to this story than what is on this blog. there are several local establishments that seem to attract people who drink heavily and get very loud and rambunctious. i love music but personally do not enjoy being around loud, drunk people so i stay away from certain bars/restaurants. i also don't like to think about these people driving. i do want our local musicians to be able to entertain here and make a good living - they deserve it! they frequently donate their time to causes and add so much to our area!!

**Groovegirls** · 04-26-2009, 01:30 PM

I have been to several community meetings on this topic. The phrase I have heard over and over again is "We are a RESORT community not a RETIREMENT community". The noise ordinance in Grayton does not have a time or decibel limit. It is dertermineed by a reasonable person. What this means is that if someone complains a "reasonable person" (deputy) goes to the location and makes a resonable assestment of the noise and then acts accordingly. They are trying to adopt this county wide because it has been successful in Grayton for so long. At least it used to be. I was told personally by the new sheriff that his policy is as follows... 1st call - a deputy comes out and talks to you and helps you adjust to an aceptable volume. 2nd call - warning and adjustment. 3rd call. shut down/ticket/jail, depending upon the bar/musicians reaction. I was not at Pandora's so I dont claim to know the whole story but it doesn't sound like the sheriff's policy was followed. This community has been known for the local music scene for some time. It is now time for us as a community to decide which direction we want to go and fight for it. It is too late to solve the current problems by zoning. Perhaps we can designate quiet areas in future development. I am in the entertainment business and used to play locally almost every night of the week. Now I travel to Destin Crestview, FWB, Tally... I spend more and make less and do nothing to help the economy in my own neighborhood. Tourists call me every year to see where are playing and I have to tell them to go to Destin or some other town to catch one of our shows. Most local bar owners are afraid to have live music or even karaoke. I and most local entertainers understand that we can go too far on our part but we are having our right to earn a living taken away from us. I can understand someone complaining if a bar moves into their neighborhood but we have been dealing with bars that have been established for many years. To anyone new who doesn't like the music scene... I am sorry but you chose to live where you live. The bar was already there. BUYER BEWARE! Sue your realtor if you feel the need. Don't try to punish some one who is doing the same thing they were doing before you moved in. Even if the bar was closed when you bought the house. It is not reasonable to assume that a bar that is or was a bar that is zoned to be a bar will not in fact be a bar again just because you moved in. The casual atmosphere and local music scene is why most of us live here and it is why so many of our visitors come here and add money to our economy. If you do not like this, then do something about it please! Call the sheriff, call the county. Call anyone who will listen and be persistent. My suspician is that the majority of us are being ruled by the vocal few. Let's be the vocal majority!

**weatabix** · 04-26-2009, 02:11 PM

It doesn't appear that the warnings took place.....we played our first set (1hr) and during that time the bartender asked that we turn the volume down. We turned it down until we were mostly heard acoustically....during our 1st break we noticed to police officers come in through the tiki bar and go straight to the kitchen at which point they brought out the manager and escorted him to the parking lot, frisked him and put him in the back seat and drove away.....now, if they had gone through all the steps neccessary, we didn't know about it.....all I know is that we lost income, the employees lost income, and there were some pretty dissappointed people there. (and by the way, none of them were drunk, disorderly, or otherwise.)

**Groovegirls** · 04-26-2009, 03:14 PM

To be fair I want to point out that we still may not know all of the facts but it certainly sounds like it was unfair. You should consider calling the sheriffs office (not 911 obviously). Ask about the official policy and their interprtation of the noise ordinance just to verify (there has been lots of confusion on this issue in the past). Then tell them your story and them know that you feel you were treated inappropriately. Please be respectful though. They don't love spending there time dealing with noise complaints either. If someone calls they have to respond. If possible talk to the sheriff directly. They get plenty of calls to complain about the noise if we want to be heard we need to call to. Please keep in mind that while the sheriff's office has to deal with the problems they are not in charge of making the rules. That falls under the code department. They are currently trying to write a fair noise ordinance so give them a call too so they can consider your opinion in the process. One way or the other we need clear rules to solve this problem.

**Groovegirls** · 04-26-2009, 03:32 PM

I would like to add... In my experience, there seems to be far more people upset about losing the music than people complaining about music. However the people complaining are complaing to the right people. The Code Department is in the process of reviewing and re writing the noise ordinance to be standard county wide. Everybody ,please, call and make your opinion known while it is on the table. Write a letter to the paper! Get your friends involved. Talk to the Sheriff. Call Governor Christ... Do whatever it takes to be represented!

**Lynnie** · 04-26-2009, 08:34 PM

We stayed and patronized them anyway. However, it would have been more funn and enjoyable had the music been a-playing!

If that complainer is so close to Pandora's, I'll bet they complain about the traffic, too......
maybe there are more issues at hand.

I would not build or buy next to a popular restaurant/bar or on a busy hwy./street. Just not my preference.

**wrobert** · 04-26-2009, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by scooterbug44

We need to do something about this problem - it is seriously affecting local businesses.

How can we put it to a vote that we want destination & local weddings, restaurants w/ live music, open-air concerts and events, and common sense....................instead of whiny tattletales who only have funn when ruining other peoples'.

Music being shut down at 9:30 on a saturday night would be considered ridiculous in Grandma Scooterbug's retirement community.

So I buy my beach front home for a million or so dollars, in a residential area, with covenants and restrictions that say no commercial activity. And you think it is okay that the guy next door rents out his million or so dollar home, every weekend, Thursday through Sunday, from April until September for a wedding, with noise, music, and activities going on into all hours of the night, and I am the bad guy?

**jodiFL** · 04-26-2009, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by wrobert

So I buy my beach front home for a million or so dollars, in a residential area, with covenants and restrictions that say no commercial activity. And you think it is okay that the guy next door rents out his million or so dollar home, every weekend, Thursday through Sunday, from April until September for a wedding, with noise, music, and activities going on into all hours of the night, and I am the bad guy?

I live in a quiet residential neighborhood (well, now that THOSE neighbors moved) and was told on several occasions that THOSE neighbors could have their music blaring, raising H***, shooting off guns, etc. until 10pm. The sheriffs dept. would NOT come out until I called AFTER 10pm. Seems like its ok until 10pm unless you are in a business zone.

**Groovegirls** · 04-26-2009, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by wrobert

So I buy my beach front home for a million or so dollars, in a residential area, with covenants and restrictions that say no commercial activity. And you think it is okay that the guy next door rents out his million or so dollar home, every weekend, Thursday through Sunday, from April until September for a wedding, with noise, music, and activities going on into all hours of the night, and I am the bad guy?

Your situation is different because it is not a public place and does not have commercial zoning. The county is also working on that problem currently. I am not sure who you should call but it is your right to have your voice heard too. Hopefully we can find a fair solution to this problem as well. Many weddings are being conducted sucessfully and do bring a lot to our economy and I hate to see this effect everyone in the industry. Good luck.

**Groovegirls** · 04-26-2009, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by jodiFL

I live in a quiet residential neighborhood (well, now that THOSE neighbors moved) and was told on several occasions that THOSE neighbors could have their music blaring, raising H***, shooting off guns, etc. until 10pm. The sheriffs dept. would NOT come out until I called AFTER 10pm. Seems like its ok until 10pm unless you are in a business zone.

Crazy, huh?

**Lynnie** · 04-26-2009, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by wrobert

So I buy my beach front home for a million or so dollars, in a residential area, with covenants and restrictions that say no commercial activity. And you think it is okay that the guy next door rents out his million or so dollar home, every weekend, Thursday through Sunday, from April until September for a wedding, with noise, music, and activities going on into all hours of the night, and I am the bad guy?

You live in Defuniak right? No beach front propeprty there, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. But, what you describe did happen in my neighborhood and the 'wedding house' now has restrictions placed upon it as it is zoned residential. Period.

**Foodlover** · 04-26-2009, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by wrobert

Some do not like loud music, some do not like Wal mart and drive thru windows. Seems like everyone has an opinion or preference that affects the cash registers of others.

I would imagine that there is quite a bit more to the story than just loud music and an immediate arrest. I am sure it will make it to the Sun before the week is out.

Do you know additional facts?

**Will B** · 04-26-2009, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by wrobert

So I buy my beach front home for a million or so dollars, in a residential area, with covenants and restrictions that say no commercial activity. And you think it is okay that the guy next door rents out his million or so dollar home, every weekend, Thursday through Sunday, from April until September for a wedding, with noise, music, and activities going on into all hours of the night, and I am the bad guy?

That's a flawed analogy.

What you should have said is that you bought a house next to a major airport that had been around for 20 years and then started complaining about airplane noise.

I think that's a little more applicable...

**scooterbug44** · 04-27-2009, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by singinchicken

That's a flawed analogy.

What you should have said is that you bought a house next to a major airport that had been around for 20 years and then started complaining about airplane noise.

I think that's a little more applicable...

And also quite common................

We're not talking about live music at a home in a residential neighborhood, we're talking about established businesses in a commercial area being shut down by whiners and how it is effecting our economy.

**Smiling JOe** · 04-27-2009, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by shellak

i agree that there is probably more to this story than what is on this blog. there are several local establishments that seem to attract people who drink heavily and get very loud and rambunctious. i love music but personally do not enjoy being around loud, drunk people so i stay away from certain bars/restaurants. i also don't like to think about these people driving. i do want our local musicians to be able to entertain here and make a good living - they deserve it! they frequently donate their time to causes and add so much to our area!!

How does a restaurant/bar manager control the voices of the patrons? Should the manager (this is at least the second incident around here where I heard the manager was sent to jail) be responsible for loud, obnoxious guests? Ever tried to heard cats?

**rheffron** · 04-27-2009, 10:02 AM

Can someone post the Sheriffs phone number? He is the one to call and find out what happened and to voice your concerns.

**Smiling JOe** · 04-27-2009, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by weatabix

It doesn't appear that the warnings took place.....we played our first set (1hr) and during that time the bartender asked that we turn the volume down. We turned it down until we were mostly heard acoustically....during our 1st break we noticed to police officers come in through the tiki bar and go straight to the kitchen at which point they brought out the manager and escorted him to the parking lot, frisked him and put him in the back seat and drove away.....now, if they had gone through all the steps neccessary, we didn't know about it.....all I know is that we lost income, the employees lost income, and there were some pretty dissappointed people there. (and by the way, none of them were drunk, disorderly, or otherwise.)

First, I'd like to point out to someone else that according to the Grayton Beach Noise Ordinance, loud, obnoxious drunks aren't included in this particular noise ordinance. Those sounds included are noted below.

ARTICLE V. NOISE
DIVISION 1. GENERALLY
Secs. 9-131--9-135. Reserved.

DIVISION 2. GRAYTON BEACH
Sec. 9-137. Definitions.

Plainly audible means any sound or noise produced or reproduced by a radio, tape player, television, electronic audio equipment, musical instrument, sound amplifier or other mechanical or electronic soundmaking device, that can be heard by a person using normal hearing faculties, at a distance of 100 feet or more from the real property line of the source of the sound or noise.

***************
Weatabix,
Sounds like you are one of the musicians playing that night, and it sounds like your duo was not warned by law enforcement.

Sec. 9-140. Violation procedures. (a) Complaint procedures; warnings.

(1) When a complaint is received, the law enforcement officer or designated county official shall promptly investigate the charges. The person making the compliant will not be required to identify himself/herself and may remain anonymous.

(2) When a law enforcement officer or designated county official determines that the sound emanating from a piece of property is in violation of section 9-138 of this division, the official shall issue an official warning to (1) the person or persons responsible for compliance with this division and (2) the person or persons making the actual sound. The warning shall state the violation, shall advise the offenders to cease and desist the violation, and shall advise of the possible penalty if the person or persons fail to eliminate the sound or reduce the sound so that it is within permitted limits and is not plainly audible.

(3) The person or persons receiving the warning shall have five minutes to comply with the warning.

(4) A warning issued under subsection (a)(2) is valid for a period of 30 days, and such warning shall remain in effect against the offending person or persons for the same or similar type violations for a period of 30 days.

(b) Arrest; termination of offending sound.

(1) If the sound is not eliminated or reduced to allowable limits within five minutes after the warning, or if the noise or sound is abated after warning and then reoccurs within 30 days, the person so warned and not complying shall be arrested for a violation of this division and upon conviction shall be subject to the penalties designated in section 9-141.

(2) If an arrest is made, the law enforcement officer or designated county official shall have the power and authority to immediately terminate the cause of the offending sound, including prohibiting any further sound from musical instruments or mechanical or electronic soundmaking devices or equipment for a period of 24 hours.

(c) Joint and several responsibility. The owner of the business, tenant or lessee of property, or a manager, overseer or agent, or any other person lawfully entitled to posses the property or manage the business premises from which the offending sound is emitted at the time the offending sound is emitted shall be jointly and severally liable for compliance with this division and each shall be punished for its volition as shall the person or persons actually causing such sound. It shall not be a lawful defense to assert that some other person caused the sound. The lawful possessor, manager or operator of the premises shall be responsible for operating or maintaining the premises in compliance with this division shall be applied to such person or persons as well as to the person or persons actually causing the sound.

(Ord. No. 96-15, � 5, 6-24-96)

***************

I'm no lawyer, and don't pretend to be one, but my understanding of the English language and the Walton County Ordinances (shown in bold and underline above), requires both the owner/management to be warned AND the person or persons making the "noise" to be warned. There is much difference between the words, "or" and "and." It seems to me that if the band wasn't also warned, they should not be able to arrest either party for the violation.

What do you other non-lawyers think?

One other note regarding this last note in the Ordinance:
Sec. 9-142. Judicial construction. No provision of this noise ordinance shall be construed to impair any common law or statutory cause of action, or legal remedy therefrom. If any provision of this noise ordinance is held to be unconstitutional, preempted by federal or state law, or otherwise invalid by any court of competent jurisdiction, the remaining provisions of the noise ordinance shall not be invalidated.

(Ord. No. 96-15, � 7, 6-24-96)
***********************
Shouldn't the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution supersede this Ordinance?
Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

**steenos** · 04-27-2009, 10:28 AM

I believe there is a process in place which involves the authorities selecting portions of local ordinance combined with state law that has resulted in this ridiculous interpretation and unlikely incarceration of business managers. This person or persons were emboldened by the problems last year at the Salty Dog and also local wedding venues which they felt were compromising their serenity. We need our laws changed to enhance our current economic climate and someone needs to be looking at the greater good which should be more than complete quiet near commercial zones. Also we should be made aware of the validity of the complaints and how they are being measured and interpreted and by whom.I think we need a lawyer or someone to help us figure out what exactly is the law and if it needs to be re-written. The people involved here live and work in this community and spend money here too. There is more involved than trying to exact a tranquil environment near business property which has been long standing .

**weatabix** · 04-27-2009, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Smiling JOe

First, I'd like to point out to someone else that according to the Grayton Beach Noise Ordinance, loud, obnoxious drunks aren't included in this particular noise ordinance. Those sounds included are noted below.

ARTICLE V. NOISE
DIVISION 1. GENERALLY
Secs. 9-131--9-135. Reserved.

DIVISION 2. GRAYTON BEACH
Sec. 9-137. Definitions.

Plainly audible means any sound or noise produced or reproduced by a radio, tape player, television, electronic audio equipment, musical instrument, sound amplifier or other mechanical or electronic soundmaking device, that can be heard by a person using normal hearing faculties, at a distance of 100 feet or more from the real property line of the source of the sound or noise.

***************
Weatabix,
Sounds like you are one of the musicians playing that night, and it sounds like your duo was not warned by law enforcement.

Sec. 9-140. Violation procedures. (a) Complaint procedures; warnings.

(1) When a complaint is received, the law enforcement officer or designated county official shall promptly investigate the charges. The person making the compliant will not be required to identify himself/herself and may remain anonymous.

(2) When a law enforcement officer or designated county official determines that the sound emanating from a piece of property is in violation of section 9-138 of this division, the official shall issue an official warning to (1) the person or persons responsible for compliance with this division and (2) the person or persons making the actual sound. The warning shall state the violation, shall advise the offenders to cease and desist the violation, and shall advise of the possible penalty if the person or persons fail to eliminate the sound or reduce the sound so that it is within permitted limits and is not plainly audible.

(3) The person or persons receiving the warning shall have five minutes to comply with the warning.

(4) A warning issued under subsection (a)(2) is valid for a period of 30 days, and such warning shall remain in effect against the offending person or persons for the same or similar type violations for a period of 30 days.

(b) Arrest; termination of offending sound.

(1) If the sound is not eliminated or reduced to allowable limits within five minutes after the warning, or if the noise or sound is abated after warning and then reoccurs within 30 days, the person so warned and not complying shall be arrested for a violation of this division and upon conviction shall be subject to the penalties designated in section 9-141.

(2) If an arrest is made, the law enforcement officer or designated county official shall have the power and authority to immediately terminate the cause of the offending sound, including prohibiting any further sound from musical instruments or mechanical or electronic soundmaking devices or equipment for a period of 24 hours.

(c) Joint and several responsibility. The owner of the business, tenant or lessee of property, or a manager, overseer or agent, or any other person lawfully entitled to posses the property or manage the business premises from which the offending sound is emitted at the time the offending sound is emitted shall be jointly and severally liable for compliance with this division and each shall be punished for its volition as shall the person or persons actually causing such sound. It shall not be a lawful defense to assert that some other person caused the sound. The lawful possessor, manager or operator of the premises shall be responsible for operating or maintaining the premises in compliance with this division shall be applied to such person or persons as well as to the person or persons actually causing the sound.

(Ord. No. 96-15, � 5, 6-24-96)

***************

I'm no lawyer, and don't pretend to be one, but my understanding of the English language and the Walton County Ordinances (shown in bold and underline above), requires both the owner/management to be warned AND the person or persons making the "noise" to be warned. There is much difference between the words, "or" and "and." It seems to me that if the band wasn't also warned, they should not be able to arrest either party for the violation.

What do you other non-lawyers think?

One other note regarding this last note in the Ordinance:
Sec. 9-142. Judicial construction. No provision of this noise ordinance shall be construed to impair any common law or statutory cause of action, or legal remedy therefrom. If any provision of this noise ordinance is held to be unconstitutional, preempted by federal or state law, or otherwise invalid by any court of competent jurisdiction, the remaining provisions of the noise ordinance shall not be invalidated.

(Ord. No. 96-15, � 7, 6-24-96)
***********************
Shouldn't the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution supersede this Ordinance?
Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Interesting!! We (Coconut Radio) were never approached about our sound levels by law enforcement that night. The police simply appeared and escorted away the person in charge....We were never given a warning and as I stated before, our levels were at acoustics levels to begin with AND at the time of the arrest we were on break....Thanks to everyone in support of the live music scene in Sowal....There are so many talented musicians in that area and I think it is wrong not to allow them to share their music with the music lovers!!

**whaddyasay** · 04-27-2009, 05:21 PM

The law is unconstitutional. An anonymous person can complain and shut down a business employing dozens of SOWAL citizens.
Back in the 80s many law abiding fishermen had their boats seized and livelihoods lost because of the "Zero Tolerance" policy allowed anonymous tips to cause minuscule amounts of pot to be conveniently "found" in tin cans onborad. How did it get there? Seemed a great way to keep competitors out of the water. Perhaps another bar owner wanted to crowds to come over? Probably not, but without being able to confront your acuser, who knows? Do we still have habeas corpus in this country?

**JamBone** · 04-27-2009, 07:47 PM

the hospitality industry employs more workers than any other industry in the united states only trailing the federal government. what do we have here in sowal? service industry, construction, real estate and retail. the people have the power and that power only becomes viable when organized.

i hereby propose to this community of "hospitalitarians" and entertainers that we at once unite and organize. we can then create an agenda and start achieving the objectives necessary to have our voices heard by our local government. by creating this unique and important lobby of like minded civilians we can begin to influence policy and law as it pertains to the benefit of our industry, our livelihoods and imho the betterment of our community and all that live in it.

as with any effective group we will have to create and attract membership, elect leadership, arrange and participate in meetings, and attend local government hearings etc..

i am willing to help get this in motion by contacting my fellow restaurateurs to gauge their interest and offer my space to meet.

it would also seem completely reasonable for this to be open to any walton county resident not just musicians and restaurateurs and the issues at hand would span well beyond just noise ordinances.

together our voices WILL be heard!

any thoughts or suggestions or anyone out there that is experienced in this type of organizing effort would be welcome to come forward and offer their skills in this matter.

scott alderson

**ray** · 04-27-2009, 08:13 PM

I just drove by pandora's tonight and i didn't see 1 car there. Is it closed?Thats a ridiculous illegal law that should be challanged

**buster** · 04-27-2009, 09:02 PM

I have heard some of "the rest of the story". Apparently, Pandora's new management has been attempting to turn it into a late night party place with music louder and later than previous. Alcohol sales are prohibited in Grayton Beach after 11 on weeknights and midnight on weekends. The Grayton beach noise ordinance came about because of the Red Bar, a compromise was reached, Ollie plays nice, and everyone gets along. It was worked out quite awhile ago and has been time tested. Recent changes at Pandora's has brought a slew of complaints by many different residents and tourists over the last few months.

So you see, the neighbors started out nice, but the new manager (22 years old) has ignored the nice attempts at working together, and flaunted the law. He is now paying the price. It's a small community. You can't come in and dump on people and ignore the law, and expect to get away with it.

Pandora's has been a great place to have dinner and hang out back and listen to good music, ending at a reasonable hour. It seems lately there is more of an emphasis in SoWal to party, understandably fostered by some establishments and local musicians. That's great but there are certain places where loud music can go on late at night and good times can be had. SoWal is and mostly always will be a family place and destination. Scenic 30A is primarily a residential kind of place.

The bottom line for Pandora's is that it isn't the neighbors who are changing,and suddenly upset about music, it is Pandora's that is changing by turning up the music and doing it later into the night. If that is what they must do then it needs to be done inside. There is plenty of space and some reading this may remember when very loud bands have played indoors.

As an aside, wedding parties in rental houses have become a huge noise problem for neighbors that the law is having to deal with.

**Snerd** · 04-27-2009, 09:53 PM

(Quoting the entire thread), Glad to be out of sowal.

I think it's great that there is so much passion against McDonalds and Walmart (have any tried to come there anyway with such high property prices?).

But no music crosses the line. What is there to do at night? If there is no music and fun, than what is there? "The Beach". It's sad that the few local spots that remain are now being managed by one complaint. I highly doubt that there were any more but one complaint (or many complaints from one) that closed the event.

Allow them, or don't. It's sad to see what "allow them" can mean (think PCB, Destin), but not allowing them seems like it will keep all of sowal in residential zoning forever. Please tell me that the future will bring music to enjoy in Sowal.....

**wrobert** · 04-27-2009, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by singinchicken

That's a flawed analogy.

What you should have said is that you bought a house next to a major airport that had been around for 20 years and then started complaining about airplane noise.

I think that's a little more applicable...

No I agree with you on that one. People do that, imho, because they get the places cheap then they go to work getting things quieter. Boortz rants about this all the time.

I was asking about the wedding thing. That is the one I have heard about repeatedly where people retired to long time family houses, only to have these mini-motels(monster houses) next to them turn into wedding venues. How are these long time residents suppose to be protected?

**wrobert** · 04-27-2009, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by rheffron

Can someone post the Sheriffs phone number? He is the one to call and find out what happened and to voice your concerns.

I believe the Sun article stated that he held office hours in sowal on Wednesdays.

**wrobert** · 04-27-2009, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Smiling JOe

(Ord. No. 96-15, � 7, 6-24-96)
***********************
Shouldn't the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution supersede this Ordinance?
Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Well if you are going to apply the US Constitution to them as a standard, most of the ordinances that the BCC have passed would not pass muster, imho. But then that is the opinion of one non-lawyer to another non-lawyer.

**weatabix** · 04-27-2009, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by JamBone

the hospitality industry employs more workers than any other industry in the united states only trailing the federal government. what do we have here in sowal? service industry, construction, real estate and retail. the people have the power and that power only becomes viable when organized.

i hereby propose to this community of "hospitalitarians" and entertainers that we at once unite and organize. we can then create an agenda and start achieving the objectives necessary to have our voices heard by our local government. by creating this unique and important lobby of like minded civilians we can begin to influence policy and law as it pertains to the benefit of our industry, our livelihoods and imho the betterment of our community and all that live in it.

as with any effective group we will have to create and attract membership, elect leadership, arrange and participate in meetings, and attend local government hearings etc..

i am willing to help get this in motion by contacting my fellow restaurateurs to gauge their interest and offer my space to meet.

it would also seem completely reasonable for this to be open to any walton county resident not just musicians and restaurateurs and the issues at hand would span well beyond just noise ordinances.

together our voices WILL be heard!

any thoughts or suggestions or anyone out there that is experienced in this type of organizing effort would be welcome to come forward and offer their skills in this matter.

scott alderson

Scott,
You will have many people interested in this.....We are in! Thanks so much for stepping forward, this will work......Steve and Sue (The Coconuts)

**weatabix** · 04-27-2009, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by weatabix

Scott,
You will have many people interested in this.....We are in! Thanks so much for stepping forward, this will work......Steve and Sue (The Coconuts)

Also, this is exactly what the Gravel Road people were talking about tonight, so it sounds like you all are on the same page, let's do it!

**Groovegirls** · 04-27-2009, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by JamBone

the hospitality industry employs more workers than any other industry in the united states only trailing the federal government. what do we have here in sowal? service industry, construction, real estate and retail. the people have the power and that power only becomes viable when organized.

i hereby propose to this community of "hospitalitarians" and entertainers that we at once unite and organize. we can then create an agenda and start achieving the objectives necessary to have our voices heard by our local government. by creating this unique and important lobby of like minded civilians we can begin to influence policy and law as it pertains to the benefit of our industry, our livelihoods and imho the betterment of our community and all that live in it.

as with any effective group we will have to create and attract membership, elect leadership, arrange and participate in meetings, and attend local government hearings etc..

i am willing to help get this in motion by contacting my fellow restaurateurs to gauge their interest and offer my space to meet.

it would also seem completely reasonable for this to be open to any walton county resident not just musicians and restaurateurs and the issues at hand would span well beyond just noise ordinances.

together our voices WILL be heard!

any thoughts or suggestions or anyone out there that is experienced in this type of organizing effort would be welcome to come forward and offer their skills in this matter.

scott alderson

Talk to Jim (Lake Place). We started a group last year. We got lots of interest as long as no one had to do anything. I will be involved in any effort to be heard as a group. Chuck Hinson can give you info about the wedding professionals organization. We have been able to get the attention of the county.

**Groovegirls** · 04-27-2009, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by steenos

I believe there is a process in place which involves the authorities selecting portions of local ordinance combined with state law that has resulted in this ridiculous interpretation and unlikely incarceration of business managers. This person or persons were emboldened by the problems last year at the Salty Dog and also local wedding venues which they felt were compromising their serenity. We need our laws changed to enhance our current economic climate and someone needs to be looking at the greater good which should be more than complete quiet near commercial zones. Also we should be made aware of the validity of the complaints and how they are being measured and interpreted and by whom.I think we need a lawyer or someone to help us figure out what exactly is the law and if it needs to be re-written. The people involved here live and work in this community and spend money here too. There is more involved than trying to exact a tranquil environment near business property which has been long standing .

There appears to be multiple documents pertainimg to noise. Some are laws. ordinance etc. They conflict and vary from neighborhood to another. No wonder we cant figure out what we can and can't do.

**Groovegirls** · 04-27-2009, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by whaddyasay

The law is unconstitutional. An anonymous person can complain and shut down a business employing dozens of SOWAL citizens.
Back in the 80s many law abiding fishermen had their boats seized and livelihoods lost because of the "Zero Tolerance" policy allowed anonymous tips to cause minuscule amounts of pot to be conveniently "found" in tin cans onborad. How did it get there? Seemed a great way to keep competitors out of the water. Perhaps another bar owner wanted to crowds to come over? Probably not, but without being able to confront your acuser, who knows? Do we still have habeas corpus in this country?

This is a problem and my understanding is that you will not be told who complained at the time but it is public record...

**Groovegirls** · 04-27-2009, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by buster

I have heard some of "the rest of the story". Apparently, Pandora's new management has been attempting to turn it into a late night party place with music louder and later than previous. Alcohol sales are prohibited in Grayton Beach after 11 on weeknights and midnight on weekends. The Grayton beach noise ordinance came about because of the Red Bar, a compromise was reached, Ollie plays nice, and everyone gets along. It was worked out quite awhile ago and has been time tested. Recent changes at Pandora's has brought a slew of complaints by many different residents and tourists over the last few months.

So you see, the neighbors started out nice, but the new manager (22 years old) has ignored the nice attempts at working together, and flaunted the law. He is now paying the price. It's a small community. You can't come in and dump on people and ignore the law, and expect to get away with it.

Pandora's has been a great place to have dinner and hang out back and listen to good music, ending at a reasonable hour. It seems lately there is more of an emphasis in SoWal to party, understandably fostered by some establishments and local musicians. That's great but there are certain places where loud music can go on late at night and good times can be had. SoWal is and mostly always will be a family place and destination. Scenic 30A is primarily a residential kind of place.

The bottom line for Pandora's is that it isn't the neighbors who are changing,and suddenly upset about music, it is Pandora's that is changing by turning up the music and doing it later into the night. If that is what they must do then it needs to be done inside. There is plenty of space and some reading this may remember when very loud bands have played indoors.

As an aside, wedding parties in rental houses have become a huge noise problem for neighbors that the law is having to deal with.

While I agree that things have changed, they always do, but Coconut Radio is not a rowdy rock band. They didn't even have drums or a bass. It was at a bar at 9:30 on a Saturday night. If Brandon or Pandora's or any other bar is a problem, then they should be dealt with accordingly. But a two piece string band hardly fits the bill for disturbing the peace. Grown ups have been listening to loud music in local bars for many years. That is what bars are for.
As far as the Wedding houses... That is a completely different situation. Private not public. And it is my understanding that the owners of those houses that are not properly zoned are busy dealing with the county now. That really is having your peace disturbed. A bar being a bar is just that.

**Groovegirls** · 04-27-2009, 11:51 PM

The bar owners as a whole have bent over backwards to try to "comply". Salty Dog started off with a decibel meter and not so much as a radio on the porch. Plus they put time and money into dampening sound before they even opened. Eventually they just shut down all together. It is a bar that was run out of business for being a bar. Most of the places on 30a are literally afraid to have any kind of music especially not on the porch, even during the day. Pandora's has been booking smaller bands and keeping the volume down. Most musicians who used to be embraced everywhere are reduced to driving too far and making too little or not playing at all. Local music has been at the heart of our community since before it was officially a community. Now going out is Sowal feels like being a grade schooler at a slumber party. "Whisper so we don't wake mommy up"
With all that said, I do want to acknowledge the rights of every citizen. I don't want to disturb anyone's peace. The entertainers and bars have tried everything to work it out. It feels like the other side wont budge or even acknowledge our rights. The "Bar Scene" hadn't changed that much until now. I run a business based on music and I am looking into some other town to re locate my business. The other option looks less and less viable everyday. In summery: "9:30 on Saturday night??? Really???"

**Here4Good** · 04-28-2009, 06:45 AM

I am not in the business and so can't provide much in the way of a professional opinion, but last weekend a co-worker came down with her husband and another couple and emailed me asking what there was to do - their wish list started with "good food and live music".

I couldn't give her much of an answer - and now that I read this thread, I realize that it is because that the music is vanishing.

So, for you folks that want to put together a group to have a voice, perhaps you can start with some professional polling of visitors, asking whether or not live music influences their decision making. I think you will find that it does, for that important high-income, no kids population.

I am afraid, though, that there is a large drive to make this stretch the most "family friendly" beach it can be, and that is what is pushing this "blandization" of 30-a.

**buster** · 04-28-2009, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by Groovegirls

While I agree that things have changed, they always do, but Coconut Radio is not a rowdy rock band. They didn't even have drums or a bass. It was at a bar at 9:30 on a Saturday night. If Brandon or Pandora's or any other bar is a problem, then they should be dealt with accordingly. But a two piece string band hardly fits the bill for disturbing the peace. Grown ups have been listening to loud music in local bars for many years. That is what bars are for.
As far as the Wedding houses... That is a completely different situation. Private not public. And it is my understanding that the owners of those houses that are not properly zoned are busy dealing with the county now. That really is having your peace disturbed. A bar being a bar is just that.

Coconut Radio was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is a shame they got hurt, but apparently it is the manager they should blame, not the neighbors.