Bike path more dangerous than 30A???

[30ABandMan]

Well, I had a chance to ride down my bike from SGB to Seaside to check the mail yesterday evening bout 6:30pm and what an eye opening experience it was. I drive 30A multiple times a day and am used to the traffic. I was shocked at the lack of courtesy displayed by bikers on the path. I know we all travel at different speeds but come on, there were riders blasting thru crowds of walkers, weaving in and out from between the roadway and the path...just careless to down right aggressive. The scene in SS is even worse. We are lucky that there aren't more accidents.

[snowman]

i do ride my bike on the path and i also do walking.....

i find that when i ride my bike i try to go slow around walkers and give a warning i am coming from behind...a lot of the walkers have i-pods in their ears, so i have to yell to make sure they hear me.

when i walk...which is most of the time......i have been side swiped, almost run over, i have had to get off the bike path because a group wouldn't share the path....most bikers do not let you know they are coming up on you from behind. i have had to yell at a couple of bikers to get off the path and go on the road...they go way to fast, but then they hold up traffic.

i think there is another thread about this same thing.

[scooterbug44]

I don't find one group to be more rude than another - walkers take up the entire path and get offended that you want to pass or go the other direction, but so do groups of bike riders. Both can be quite oblivious that there are other users - especially when kids, dogs, cell phones, or headphones are involved.

I find paying attention, dinging my bell and smiling/saying "thank you" when they move so I can pass to be quite effective.

The majority of the users are just using the path and oblivious, not trying to be rude or cause problems.

[kkddbb]

I don't find one group to be more rude than another - walkers take up the entire path and get offended that you want to pass or go the other direction, but so do groups of bike riders. Both can be quite oblivious that there are other users - especially when kids, dogs, cell phones, or headphones are involved.

I find paying attention, dinging my bell and smiling/saying "thank you" when they move so I can pass to be quite effective.

The majority of the users are just using the path and oblivious, not trying to be rude or cause problems.

right on mark. its one of those "it is what it is" situations.

[Hop]

I don't find one group to be more rude than another - walkers take up the entire path and get offended that you want to pass or go the other direction, but so do groups of bike riders. Both can be quite oblivious that there are other users - especially when kids, dogs, cell phones, or headphones are involved.

I find paying attention, dinging my bell and smiling/saying "thank you" when they move so I can pass to be quite effective.

The majority of the users are just using the path and oblivious, not trying to be rude or cause problems.

amen...

[cheesehead]

I agree with sb44, as I ride just about everyday. Some people get a bit scared because of the horn I use. Most people I have encountered are friendly. I try to stay away from SS just "cuz of all the extra foot traffic.

[mikecatadjuster]

I use a gentle 'on the left' voice message sometimes. Too loud can scare someone, but yes, if they have an ipod on... I tend to slow down and when I don't see it appropriate to voice my presence and have them move, I wait until they notice me and they genrally politely allow passage.

I do however sometimes, rather than have anyone move, I go into the road when no oncoming traffic exists. That was, I move on past and no one is inconvenienced (wow, that word looks long)

But all in all, I find the bike paths to be traveled well. Most people are polite and the ones who are not probably are not up to speed on the eticate or, well, some people don't care to think of others.

But I love the paths!

[Lake View Too]

I am coming from the position of being a constant automobile user on 30-A who doesn't ever use a bicycle. I realize that, just like crabgrass and Republicans, we will never be able to rid ourselves of those pesky bicyclers. We just have to get along with them. I actually think we should have a forum called "All About Bike-Wise" or somesuch name, in which we emphasize and reiterate some of these tips of courtesy and etiquette and just try to keep motorist, bicyclers and pedestrian thinking about interacting with as much grace as possible. Part of this should be talking about dangerous and/or dumb intersections where people actually might have to put down their i-phones for a second and concentrate on situational awareness.

My first vote for dangerous is the corner of South Gulf Drive and 30-A. The vegetation causes a pretty blind corner for drivers pulling out and the bikers need to know we can't see you too well.

My first vote for dumb is where the bike path crosses Eastern Lake Road. It is as confusing and awkward a situation as anywhere in Sowal. Can anyone think of a worse one?

[Dia]

I find paying attention, dinging my bell and smiling/saying "thank you" when they move so I can pass to be quite effective.

I loved your bell! I usually use the skiing lingo - "Passing on the left" or "Passing on the right" with a smile. (I don't have a bell)

[New Yellowfin]

I actually think we should have a forum called "All About Bike-Wise" or somesuch name, in which we emphasize and reiterate some of these tips of courtesy and etiquette and just try to keep motorist, bicyclers and pedestrian thinking about interacting with as much grace as possible.

Good idea. Of course, we're preaching to the choir. Has anyone noticed the public service style ads in the Walton Sun regarding etiquette and rules of the multi-use (bike) trail? Along with about a half-dozen other bike shops and bike rental outfits, we are co-sponsoring this series of ads that run each Saturday in the summer season. Although not a cure, it's hopefully a step in the right direction. Here's a few samples:

[SWGB]

I may just rig up a cow pusher on my bike.

[Lake View Too]

Does Hummer make a bicycle?

[Smiling JOe]

30A is my choice of preference, and the safest in my opinion, for riding bicycles, compared to the multi-use trail.

[scooterbug44]

Has anyone noticed the public service style ads in the Walton Sun regarding etiquette and rules of the multi-use (bike) trail? Along with about a half-dozen other bike shops and bike rental outfits, we are co-sponsoring this series of ads that run each Saturday in the summer season. Although not a cure, it's hopefully a step in the right direction.

Nice to see people being proactive!

IMO if people actually followed the rules in the ad (and posted on signs along the path) we'd all be a lot safer and happier!

They're common sense rules, but sadly at least 50% (I'm being nice) of the bikers/path users aren't following them.

[Douglas the Intrepid]

I have been taking my daughter out to ride on the bike path and its been fun! We stick on the section out by Deer Lake though, so we don't experience the craziness of Seaside or such. I am always pleased by the friendliness of most passerby who smile and say hello. I love this area!

[Dia]

I loved your bell! I usually use the skiing lingo - "Passing on the left" or "Passing on the right" with a smile. (I don't have a bell)

Of course, what I really want to say is:

"Everybody MOVE!" ~ Fezzik (The Princess Bride)

[SWGB]

[Terp22]

Etiquette W Sun.7 09.pdf

Share 7 16 09.pdf

These two announcements are running in the Walton Sun atlernating weeks, one week one then next the other. All done to educate on these issues

[Terp22]

I am coming from the position of being a constant automobile user on 30-A who doesn't ever use a bicycle. I realize that, just like crabgrass and Republicans, we will never be able to rid ourselves of those pesky bicyclers. We just have to get along with them. I actually think we should have a forum called "All About Bike-Wise" or somesuch name, in which we emphasize and reiterate some of these tips of courtesy and etiquette and just try to keep motorist, bicyclers and pedestrian thinking about interacting with as much grace as possible. Part of this should be talking about dangerous and/or dumb intersections where people actually might have to put down their i-phones for a second and concentrate on situational awareness.

My first vote for dangerous is the corner of South Gulf Drive and 30-A. The vegetation causes a pretty blind corner for drivers pulling out and the bikers need to know we can't see you too well.

My first vote for dumb is where the bike path crosses Eastern Lake Road. It is as confusing and awkward a situation as anywhere in Sowal. Can anyone think of a worse one?

I will ask County to cut vegetation on SE corner at 30A and S Gulf Drive and to restripe on path as well as place a stop sign on the the south side of the path with a warning stripe. If you have any other areas of concern let me know and provide a solution if you can.

[Lake View Too]

I will ask County to cut vegetation on SE corner at 30A and S Gulf Drive and to restripe on path as well as place a stop sign on the the south side of the path with a warning stripe. If you have any other areas of concern let me know and provide a solution if you can.

Terp22 : Do you work for the county or have pull with the county? The awkward intersection at Eastern Lake Road and 30-A is where they really need to fix things. They need to remove parts of the bikepath where they re-routed it, so as not to confuse things. They need to make the turn more rounded than a right angle turn, and they need to move the pedestrian crossing sign because it makes it almost impossible for a biker to make that turn and keep an eye out for cars.

I could go on.

[Interested Girl]

Maybe he is the bike path coordinator talked about in another thread
Posted via Mobile Device

[wrobert]

Maybe he is the bike path coordinator talked about in another thread
Posted via Mobile Device

Oh good grief! If that is the case keep your questions short please. We are shy several millions in the budget and $35/hr is a bit much to answer forum posts.

[SWGB]

Oh good grief! If that is the case keep your questions short please. We are shy several millions in the budget and $35/hr is a bit much to answer forum posts.

I would assume that the bike path coordinator works for the TDC therefore not affecting the actual county budget.

[Interested Girl]

I would assume that the bike path coordinator works for the TDC therefore not affecting the actual county budget.

And you would be wrong. Contract is paid by Public Works.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Douglas the Intrepid]

Oh good grief! If that is the case keep your questions short please. We are shy several millions in the budget and $35/hr is a bit much to answer forum posts.

Edit: I did have a blurb here about how the BPC was actually getting stuff done from feedback here and you shouldn't piss and moan about everything. But after careful consideration, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were actually making an attempt to make a joke.

[Geo]

Oh good grief! If that is the case keep your questions short please. We are shy several millions in the budget and $35/hr is a bit much to answer forum posts.

[hinkhall]

A true multi-use path should be clearly marked with a bike lane and pedestrian lane. Bikers would ride single file as they are required if riding in the traffic lanes where a path is not available. I realize that it is a little late since the path is not very wide, but maybe future planning could consider this as an option in areas where there is room for it.

[30ABandMan]

A true multi-use path should be clearly marked with a bike lane and pedestrian lane. Bikers would ride single file as they are required if riding in the traffic lanes where a path is not available. I realize that it is a little late since the path is not very wide, but maybe future planning could consider this as an option in areas where there is room for it.

You'll find things a little more relaxed here in SoWal with most of us trying to be ruled by common sense more than lines or lanes. It is unfortunate that not everyone can be depended on to live the same way. I try to keep an eye out for everyone because I know that most of our visitors are trying to soak all of he beautiful scenery in.

[cheesehead]

Here's a new twist to this thread. It happened again today, riding home from work. People coming off the beach{by thomb thumb in Seagrove", and they just walk right to the road crossing the bike path, not looking at all. Go figure.

[Everytime]

Here are my observations and experiences after recently spending 10 days in Seagrove. I ran on the multi-use path one day, ran on the Eastern Lake Trail in Pt. Washington State Forest three days, and rode a bike on the multi-use path on all the other days. I drove a car at least to Tom Thumb or Publix each day.

Preface: I usually handle the "warning approach" based on the situation. At first, I'll back pedal a little to click the gears on the bike for noise, and if that doesn't get the walkers' attention, I usually announce my approach. I've found that some walkers don't like the announcement, and I've found that some get mad if I do not make the announcement. When I'm approaching congestion on the trail, I usually just go "off-road" to the right, either on the grass or 30-A if traffic is clear.

One morning, I was riding the bike on the multi-use path and waiting to cross 30-A from the multi-use path to the Tom Thumb parking lot at the Somerset Bridge crosswalk. There were also some pedistrians crossing from Somerset Bridge Road to the multi-use path. Eventually, cars from both sides stopped to allow us to cross 30-A. There was also an SUV attempting to turn left onto 30-A (eastbound) from Somerset Bridge Road. Before I was able to enter the crosswalk, a cyclist came eastbound down 30-A at a high rate of speed on a road bike, passing the cars that were stopped for us, and proceeding on through the crosswalk (I'm not sure, but I think this crosswalk has one of those little yield signs with the arrow pointing "here" to the road). At the same time, possibly due to my hesitance to cross, the SUV from Somerset Bridge Road began to proceed into his lefthand turn. The cyclist, still going at a high speed, pointed at him and yelled something at him. While the SUV driver was likely in the wrong for beginning to proceed, it seems the cyclist would also be in the wrong for passing stopped cars and not yielding to crossing pedestrians and cyclists. I don't know all of the rules of road cycling, but I have noticed that on 30-A many of them do not stop at the 30-A/395 intersection nor at the 30-A crosswalks (and many cars don't stop at the crosswalks either, regardless of the presence of pedestrians/cyclists). I have also noticed in my own neighborhood that they breeze through stop signs (above the 20 mph neighborhood speed limit downhill).

Another item I observed: while riding on the multi-use path on 30-A and approaching 395, I saw a family with kids on bikes approaching that intersection heading westbound towards Seaside. I was behind them and expected to catch up with them as everyone stopped at the "little" stop sign which is visibly placed on the multi-use path for observance by multi-use path users. However, they did not stop at all and continued at thier constant speed across 395 towards Seaside. And just as I got to the intersection and came to a complete stop, an older lady whom I had just recently passed near the Wheelhouse flew past me when she did not stop either. What is it about the multi-use path "little" stop sign that cyclists think does not apply to them? Do people convince themselves that because it's a beach town/vacation area, that everything is more laid back and there is no need to even stop and look for vehicular traffic?

Seaside: people like to congregate on the multi-use path (really more of a sidewalk through SS & Watercolor) at the ends of their streets; some are on their bikes, some are on foot, but they don't mind taking up the path to make it impassable to path users. I usually just veer off on to 30-A if traffic permits, or come to a stop and negotiate my bike around them.

And although I do stop at the crosswalks when people are waiting to cross, I have observed some pedestrians off of 30-A walk straight out into the road in front of traffic without looking or waiting.

Again, these are just observations. I am not scolding anyone for anything, but stating what I saw and interested in everyone's feedback. I tend to be defenisive as opposed to confrontational or invincible whether I'm on a bike, in a vehicle or driving a vehicle, so I don't dare take it up with any of the involved parties when I see it...

[30ABandMan]

Here's a new twist to this thread. It happened again today, riding home from work. People coming off the beach{by thomb thumb in Seagrove", and they just walk right to the road crossing the bike path, not looking at all. Go figure.

At about 5 pm this on Tuesday afternoon, I was westbound on 30A approaching my turn onto S. Gulf. There was teen standing up, riding his bike as fast as he could. He crosse S. Gulf headed west and never even attempted to slow or look.

With more and more peeps coming into the area and more and more of them texting, talking on the phone and rubber necking, I'm afraid it may not be long before something bad happens.

[Lake View Too]

Although everybody need to be as vigilant as they possibly can be, the last two threads seem to be about the same thing: the "entitled bicycler". Whether you are a casual sightseeing bicycler or a serious bicycler, you have to show a little bit of caution going thru any intersection. The fact is, as motorist turning onto or turning off of 30-A, we cannot always see you. Let me repeat that: we cannot always see you. Whether it be foilage, other cars, or simply the overload of watching for other cars and other pedestians and bikers, if you barrel across the intersections at 30MPH, you are very much a major part of the problem. As a concerned motorist, I'm trying my best, and I hope everyone gets more informed as we go along our happy trails.

[pennstater]

Although everybody need to be as vigilant as they possibly can be, the last two threads seem to be about the same thing: the "entitled bicycler". Whether you are a casual sightseeing bicycler or a serious bicycler, you have to show a little bit of caution going thru any intersection. The fact is, as motorist turning onto or turning off of 30-A, we cannot always see you. Let me repeat that: we cannot always see you. Whether it be foilage, other cars, or simply the overload of watching for other cars and other pedestians and bikers, if you barrel across the intersections at 30MPH, you are very much a major part of the problem. As a concerned motorist, I'm trying my best, and I hope everyone gets more informed as we go along our happy trails.

As a driver, when crossing any multi-use path (or crosswalk or any intersection for that matter), I always assume someone is on the path whether it's a cyclist or a pedestrian. Therefore I come to a complete stop before entering the path from a driveway or cross street. I do not proceed until I am sure the way is clear.

I can't think of any place on the path that has such an obstructed view that I could not see a cyclist as long as I stop before crossing the path.

If you can't see cyclists on the path, you are the problem and I strongly suggest you stop driving immediately.

[Lake View Too]

As you come up to 30-A from S. Gulf Drive, there is a blind spot caused by foilage. If a bicycler is coming at a high rate of speed, you cannot see him/her until too late. I've mentioned this before. I have seen several "near misses" before. I'm sure this isn't the only blind corner in SoWal. The above post mentioned a serious biker barreling thru the totally FUBAR sitation at Tom Thumb. What I am politely asking is that bikers please do not think you are entitled to barrel thru intersections without showing the same caution as everybody else.

[30ABandMan]

As a driver, when crossing any multi-use path (or crosswalk or any intersection for that matter), I always assume someone is on the path whether it's a cyclist or a pedestrian. Therefore I come to a complete stop before entering the path from a driveway or cross street. I do not proceed until I am sure the way is clear.

I can't think of any place on the path that has such an obstructed view that I could not see a cyclist as long as I stop before crossing the path.

If you can't see cyclists on the path, you are the problem and I strongly suggest you stop driving immediately.

You need to try to negotiating the intersection at S. Gulf and 30A. You don't always see peeps speeding down the path AND the path is on the wrong side of the stop sign. Of course, you seem to know more than everyone. Heck, what do I know, I only taught emergency vehicle operations for 6 years.

[pennstater]

You need to try to negotiating the intersection at S. Gulf and 30A. You don't always see peeps speeding down the path AND the path is on the wrong side of the stop sign. Of course, you seem to know more than everyone. Heck, what do I know, I only taught emergency vehicle operations for 6 years.

And I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I do know that if you hit a cyclist at that intersection you better have plenty of insurance. Especially if you continue to use that intersection even after you have judged it unsafe in writing. Your attitude about safety is shocking. No wonder so many emergency vehicles are involved in deadly accidents.

I have been through that intersection many times. If you believe you cannot properly see the path, for everyones well being including yours, I urge you to use an alternate, safer access to 30A.

As long as vehicles stop before entering the path, the cyclist on the path has a good line of site and more than sufficient time to avoid a collision. The vehicles that do not stop before entering the path are the real hazard. Understand - the cyclist can see you and avoid you as long as you come to a complete stop before entering the path.

I believe what is most disturbing is the attitude of too many motorists. It's the I own the road mentality which when behind the wheel of 2 tons of speeding metal is responsible for so much of the carnage on our streets and highways. You believe it is dangerous, but will not drive around the block to avoid a potential tragedy. Please stop and listen to what you are saying (writing). You use the intersection even though you BELIEVE IT IS DANGEROUS. Why?

Look, I am not saying I have not seen crazy out of control cyclists. There are plenty. I am a motorist, a cyclist and a pedestrian. We certainly all need to be more understanding of others.

[Will B]

For the record, cyclists riding on public roads have to obey all the same laws as motorized vehicles.
Riding on the path does not give a cyclist a pass on road laws regarding stop signs...

Does that mean that cyclists will follow road rules...obviously, a good percentage do not...

[NotDeadYet]

it seems the cyclist would also be in the wrong for passing stopped cars and not yielding to crossing pedestrians and cyclists. I don't know all of the rules of road cycling, but I have noticed that on 30-A many of them do not stop at the 30-A/395 intersection nor at the 30-A crosswalks

Everytime, thank you for your thoughtful post.

This is one of my pet peeves about bikes on the roadway. I don't mind sharing the road with them, but I expect them to follow the same rules I follow.
Nothing is quite so annoying as patiently waiting for a chance to safely go around a bike on 30A, then stop for a stop sign only to have the same bike catch up to you, blast through the stop sign, and then be ahead of you once again.

The 30A/395 intersection really worries me. More than once, while making a right turn from 30A westbound to head up to the Publix, I have turned my head and looked as far back as I could see, then started into my turn, only to have someone going really fast on a bike ride right out in front of me.

[SWGB]

I do know that if you hit a cyclist at that intersection you better have plenty of insurance. Especially if you continue to use that intersection even after you have judged it unsafe in writing. Your attitude about safety is shocking. No wonder so many emergency vehicles are involved in deadly accidents.

*Sniff**Sniff* Anybody else smell ambulance chaser?

[beachmouse]

For the record, cyclists riding on public roads have to obey all the same laws as motorized vehicles.
Riding on the path does not give a cyclist a pass on road laws regarding stop signs...

Does that mean that cyclists will follow road rules...obviously, a good percentage do not...

I'll admit to not always coming to a dead stop on my bike at stop signs. I ride with clipless pedals and dread the infamous zero speed tip over if I can't get a foot unclipped on time. But even if that's a concern for others as well, you're still got to slow way, way down and act like you're going to stop before rolling through at 0.5mph because the coast looks clear, not blasting through the traffic sign at 20mph.

[Lake View Too]

I dunno folks, it seems to me that, to caution the human inhabitants of SouthWalton County that frequently use highway 30A and the bikepaths, (whether they be a motorist, a pedestrian, a vacation biker or a serious biker) about a dangerous intersection is the right thing a good citizen should do. I'd like to think that someone in authority would hear about it and do something to make it safer. In fact, I'm all in favor of anybody pointing out to me, and all of us, dangerous situations along all South Walton roads. If I altered my driving routes to avoid all intersections I consider dangerous, I probably wouldn't be able to drive to work, to make money, to pay my taxes that supposedly go to making the roadways and bikepaths safer. Anyway, I don't want to promote "us and them" mentality. I want us all to be vigilant in ways to make the roadways and bikepaths safer for everyone. (opps, fell off my soapbox,again).

[LuciferSam]

And I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I do know that if you hit a cyclist at that intersection you better have plenty of insurance. Especially if you continue to use that intersection even after you have judged it unsafe in writing. Your attitude about safety is shocking. No wonder so many emergency vehicles are involved in deadly accidents.

I have been through that intersection many times. If you believe you cannot properly see the path, for everyones well being including yours, I urge you to use an alternate, safer access to 30A.

As long as vehicles stop before entering the path, the cyclist on the path has a good line of site and more than sufficient time to avoid a collision. The vehicles that do not stop before entering the path are the real hazard. Understand - the cyclist can see you and avoid you as long as you come to a complete stop before entering the path.

I believe what is most disturbing is the attitude of too many motorists. It's the I own the road mentality which when behind the wheel of 2 tons of speeding metal is responsible for so much of the carnage on our streets and highways. You believe it is dangerous, but will not drive around the block to avoid a potential tragedy. Please stop and listen to what you are saying (writing). You use the intersection even though you BELIEVE IT IS DANGEROUS. Why?

Look, I am not saying I have not seen crazy out of control cyclists. There are plenty. I am a motorist, a cyclist and a pedestrian. We certainly all need to be more understanding of others.

I agree. As a motorist I've never had any problem with cyclists at any intersection. Basic rule of thumb is stop, look all around proceed, slowly. This approach will help you avoid accidents even with cyclists who are violating the rules of the road. True, they are in the wrong, but I'm not going to test that theory in court. It's much easier simply to exercise common sense, be alert, and don't hit them. As a cyclist, I obey the rules of the road/path and and try to detect motorists who seem to lack my common sense behind the wheel. It's not rocket science folks. If you see somebody commit a driving [or cycling] error, [in a lot of cases] the best solution is a bad short-term memory. In other words forget about it and get on with your life.

[The Adams]

Although everybody need to be as vigilant as they possibly can be, the last two threads seem to be about the same thing: the "entitled bicycler". Whether you are a casual sightseeing bicycler or a serious bicycler, you have to show a little bit of caution going thru any intersection. The fact is, as motorist turning onto or turning off of 30-A, we cannot always see you. Let me repeat that: we cannot always see you. Whether it be foilage, other cars, or simply the overload of watching for other cars and other pedestians and bikers, if you barrel across the intersections at 30MPH, you are very much a major part of the problem. As a concerned motorist, I'm trying my best, and I hope everyone gets more informed as we go along our happy trails.

Entitled! That's exactly the attitude I've witnessed. From past experience people that feel entilted in one area of their life usually carry that attitude to other areas...the entitled cyclist, entitled motorist, entitled pedestrian! How lucky we are to be able to live with THE ENTITLED.

[Will B]

I'll admit to not always coming to a dead stop on my bike at stop signs. I ride with clipless pedals and dread the infamous zero speed tip over if I can't get a foot unclipped on time. But even if that's a concern for others as well, you're still got to slow way, way down and act like you're going to stop before rolling through at 0.5mph because the coast looks clear, not blasting through the traffic sign at 20mph.

I'm with you on that. I have clipless as well. I can almost track stand, but I'm like you. I try not to come out of the clip if I don't have to...

[Just Curious]

By the way, anybody watching the "Tour"?