Golf carts and YOU

**InletBchOwnr** · 08-03-2009, 11:26 AM

We were headed to OFFH, Old Florida ya know what, yesterday afternoon for the special pricing from Sundog's and ended up behind a golf cart cruising at about 15 mph on 30A from One Seagrove Place until it turned in at OFFH. The folks were waving to pedestrians and acted as if it were a parade which it was not. I asked the guy driving if he was a taxi and he said no he rented the cart and I told him I thought they weren't supposed to be on the roads and he informed me that the rental agency, Butterflies, stuck a temporary tag on his cart and he could drive it anywhere. Any new reg's on this we don't know about? We were told several years ago that it was illegal to drive them on the streets unless just crossing the highway to a beach access point or into a development.

**SWGB** · 08-03-2009, 11:47 AM

Unfortunately with a tag (that was obtained properly) they are street legal.

My biggest pet peeve are the people who under some BS impression that the blue stripes in front of PBTS is a parking area for them. It's not, I don't care how quickly you are running in, it's wrong, and the people that do it are incredibly worthless human beings.

**kkddbb** · 08-03-2009, 11:52 AM

get used to it folks! i hate it too, but it is what it is. its really no different than a construction tractor. we all have to share the roads. tip: dont take 30a if your in a rush

**beachmouse** · 08-03-2009, 11:56 AM

To be legal on the streets, the tricked out golf carts must be on 'low speed' roadways (35mph or less and, according to Florida code:

2) A low-speed vehicle must be equipped with headlamps, stop lamps, turn signal lamps, taillamps, reflex reflectors, parking brakes, rearview mirrors, windshields, seat belts, and vehicle identification numbers.

Some good quick info about low speed vehicles and golf carts here:

Florida Law

**nodilberthere** · 08-03-2009, 02:18 PM

Why would anybody pay 700 bucks to rent one of these stupid things for a week, or even for a day it's 150 smackerooos???? Isn't it easier and safer to just use your car, or with that nice bike trail -- burn some energy and ride a bicycle?

Here at home, I get so annoyed seeing little toddlers in my neighborhood, nobody's kid rides a tricycle anymore....they all have electric cars. And then they wonder why junior is 20 pounds fatter than he should be

Yesterday I almost got run over by four kids in a Jeep Wrangler going to get my mail at the curb.....and they beeped and yelled at me. If they weren't four years old, I would have shot them the finger.

**InletBchOwnr** · 08-03-2009, 03:38 PM

Alrighty then, let's look like every other traffic bound, golf cart putting, cheek-to-jowl area of the Panhandle and turn this into motor vehicle heaven instead of a quiet retreat away from all of that. I give up. Never in a hurry down here but expect everyone to respect everyone else and maybe now and then look behind and give way to real traffic. Now don't get me started on bicycles that want us to believe "We are traffic, too," when in reality they are traffic impediments, too. But then again, that's just me.....hehehe

**scooterbug44** · 08-03-2009, 03:42 PM

I love how people think a compact car or a Smart car is a death trap, but don't see any reason why they can't drive a golf cart down the HIGHWAY w/ kids hanging off the sides.

**kkddbb** · 08-03-2009, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by scooterbug44

I love how people think a compact car or a Smart car is a death trap, but don't see any reason why they can't drive a golf cart down the HIGHWAY w/ kids hanging off the sides.

i agree. but, respectfully smart and/or compact cars are death traps. 30A is very different from everyday road usage than in most communities. 30A traffic is fairly slow for scenic viewing versus most roadways. ive been in many accidents and i certainly wouldnt have wanted to be in anything other than a standard sized car or truck. heck, i feel safer on my bike on the bike trail than anywhere else for that matter.

**Yzarctoo** · 08-03-2009, 06:04 PM

I own a street legal 4 wheel drive electrical cart...it is fully street legal, and comes with regular car insurance. I am unable to go out on to a street that has speeds posted higher than 35 mph. So I don't...I stay in my community. I do have a beach permit that allows me to go on beach...my cart is small, doesn't take up much parking space, doesn't use gas and I find it ideal for the small community in which I live. Perhaps the cart renter was not familiar with the Florida rules. Personally I have found 30A a rather slow moving road...slow drivers enjoying the beautiful view, bikers in clusters, slow moving construction vehicles, and folks not understanding 4 way stops. It's just part of the charm (?) of 30A.

**aggieb** · 08-03-2009, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by nodilberthere

Yesterday I almost got run over by four kids in a Jeep Wrangler going to get my mail at the curb.....and they beeped and yelled at me. If they weren't four years old, I would have shot them the finger.

**nodilberthere** · 08-03-2009, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by aggieb

Aggie, love the yearbook photo

**cabythesea** · 08-04-2009, 05:51 PM

The hostility of this thread makes me think some of you do not belong on 30A - chill out - life is short. Live and let live - I'm begging you!

**SWGB** · 08-04-2009, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by cabythesea

The hostility of this thread makes me think some of you do not belong on 30A - chill out - life is short. Live and let live - I'm begging you!

Everyone belongs hostile or not. I'm sure there's something that ruffles your feathers.

**steyou** · 08-04-2009, 08:54 PM

I remember when I used to ride cardboard boxes down the dunes in the 60"s. Little bit different then.

**Truffle Anne** · 08-04-2009, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by SWGB

Everyone belongs hostile or not. I'm sure there's something that ruffles your feathers.

I just get FURIOUS when you say that hostile people belong here! I'm going to quit coming to this site, and go get my golf cart and come over and RAM your vehicle, and tear up your landscaping, and put chewed up gum on your mailbox handle, you, you, twerp!

Plus, I'm going to find a female bull shark, and tell her that you called her a cow.

**beachmouse** · 08-04-2009, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by steyou

I remember when I used to ride cardboard boxes down the dunes in the 60"s. Little bit different then.

I know natives who claimed the dunes on Okaloosa Island before Opal/Ivan/Dennis were high enough that they actually dug snow skis out of someone's garage and went down the dunes on them.

**SWGB** · 08-05-2009, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by beachmouse

I know natives who claimed the dunes on Okaloosa Island before Opal/Ivan/Dennis were high enough that they actually dug snow skis out of someone's garage and went down the dunes on them.

I can see that. I remember when the highest point along the Gulf Coast was a dune on St. George Island. That area is now completely flat.

**Will B** · 08-05-2009, 08:55 AM

I think some clarification on this thread is needed...

This is a street legal electric vehicle...

This is not...

There is a distiction somewhere in the law that differentiates what is and is not legal; however, Florida statue states that to be street legal the vehicle must meet the following criteria:
Stop lamps, turn signal lamps, headlamps, taillamps, parking brakes
Rearview mirrors, reflex reflectors, windshields, seat belts, and VIN's
Must be registered and insured in accordance with current regulations (s. 320.02)
The drivers of low speed vehicles must have valid driver�s licenses

By design, a golf cart has a top speed of 14mph (yes, that can be tweaked), but if it doesn't meet the standard of a top speed between 20 - 25mph, it doesn't meet the requirements.

My guess is that if you guys are seeing true golf carts with tags they have either been modified to have all of the above or the people in Walton Co who issue the tags aren't checking.

**SWGB** · 08-05-2009, 03:44 PM

The problem may come from PCB who recently passed an ordinance allowing golf carts on streets other than Front, Middle, and Back Beach roads.

**bdub** · 08-08-2009, 09:32 AM

I am one of the people now using a "street-legal" electric cart on 30A. It is registered, it has a tag and is fully insured. They're known as LSV's (low speed vehicles) or NEV's (neighborhood electric vehicles) ... and you can drive them in Florida on roadways where the speed limit is 35 or lower. It has headlights, blinkers and seat belts. It's a blast to drive.

I like the idea of not running the SUV once I arrive here. I'm surprised that the many people who frequent this forum to talk about turtles and keeping the beach clean, would have an issue with something that is essentially a green machine.

My machine tops out at 20 mph. I keep a close eye on my rear view mirror and when I see that I am slowing traffic, I pull over and let folks pass. Most everyone has been nice about it. The waves have been friendly, and I get lots of questions when I make my afternoon ice cream run.

The reason you are probably seeing more of this is that between now and the end of the year, you can qualify for a pretty substantial tax credit when you buy a NEV. The tax break will pay for about 2/3rds of the cost of the vehicle.

I think 30A is a very special place where things move at a slower pace. The NEV is a nice fit for the lifestyle. It may be a small gesture -- but by using the NEV, I am substantially reducing my carbon footprint and "thinking locally." I am also spending more money with the merchants within my 35MPH roaming zone.

I think we need more of this ... not less.

**Bluznbeach** · 08-08-2009, 09:42 AM

I have no problem with any street legal vehicle, but to drive a golf cart down 30A is clearly inappropriate. We've had this problem in Inlet Beach for years, because a few folks let their early teen or even pre-teen kids drive carts there, and they're a danger to everybody else.

**bdub** · 08-08-2009, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Bluznbeach

I have no problem with any street legal vehicle, but to drive a golf cart down 30A is clearly inappropriate. We've had this problem in Inlet Beach for years, because a few folks let their early teen or even pre-teen kids drive carts there, and they're a danger to everybody else.

Here's the thing: My NEV looks like a golf cart. But it has been modified to meet all state and federal regulations. It does not have a place for golf bags, but the rear seat folds down so that you can carry groceries (or a cooler over to the beach).

The key to knowing whether someone is "street legal" ... just look to see if they have a tag. If the cart has a tag, it has been modified to operate as a street legal NEV.

**30ABandMan** · 08-08-2009, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by bdub

Here's the thing: My NEV looks like a golf cart. But it has been modified to meet all state and federal regulations. It does not have a place for golf bags, but the rear seat folds down so that you can carry groceries (or a cooler over to the beach).

The key to knowing whether someone is "street legal" ... just look to see if they have a tag. If the cart has a tag, it has been modified to to operate as a street legal NEV.

What's not legal is all of the riders I see not wearing seatbelts, this includes kids sitting facing the rear, and kids driving the dang things. There is a posted county ordinance against them and being on the mult-use path. It has just gotten a whole ridiculous feel to it around here, almost like being at a camp ground.

I love the fact that this place is a pedestrian/biker community, I'm not for the golf carts at all. I know I'll have to learn to accept them but I think they take away from the atmosphere a bit.

**bdub** · 08-08-2009, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by 30ABandMan

What's not legal is all of the riders I see not wearing seatbelts, this includes kids sitting facing the rear, and kids driving the dang things. There is a posted county ordinance against them and being on the mult-use path. It has just gotten a whole ridiculous feel to it around here, almost like being at a camp ground.

I love the fact that this place is a pedestrian/biker community, I'm not for the golf carts at all. I know I'll have to learn to accept them but I think they take away from the atmosphere a bit.

I agree. People should wear seat belts --- and stay off the bike paths (I never use them). It goes without saying that you need to be a licensed driver to operate any street legal vehicle.

But, being a fair-minded individual, I am sure you would not lop those of us who are playing by the rules in with those who do not.

The NEV is a new idea -- but an idea with great merit. Why do you need a full-blown SUV to run errands in your immediate neighborhood? Clean ... green ... and for the moment, a heckuva tax break.

**Everytime** · 08-08-2009, 12:39 PM

I have no issue with the street legal electric vehicles, GEM Cars, etc., but the golf carts are the problem, not just because they travel so much slower, but because they are not as visible due to not being designed for street traffic usage. Some people driving them tend to take an extreme version of the pedestrian/cyclist right-of-way mentality that all automobiles must yield to their golf carts in any situation and the golf cart can then drive out into traffic crossing the street obliviously and at will just as a a child may do while riding a bike. I was behind one of the overloaded ones on Eastern Lake Road once, driving patiently behind it at about 8 - 10 mph, and the dad pulled it over to drop off or pick up some more kids, and a pre-teenish girl on the back seat, facing rearward, started pointing and yelling at me when I proceeded to pass the golf cart.

**scooterbug44** · 08-08-2009, 01:14 PM

Driving a vehicle whose maximum speed is 15-25 mph below the posted speed limit is not safe.

I appreciate that you want to not take your SUV to run errands and are trying to be more earth friendly, but 30-A is a HIGHWAY and has a speed limit of 45 mph in many places.

I love to see people using street legal golf carts WITHIN their communities instead of driving cars, but 30-A is the main road serving our community and needs to be treated as such.

**Beach Runner** · 08-08-2009, 02:50 PM

Scooty, I was wondering how someone in Watersound would get to Seaside on a golf cart. I believe the speed limit is over 35 between for a small stretch between Watersound and Lakewood Drive unless it has changed lately. Ditto for going from Seagrove/Seaside/Watercolor to Grayton or from Grayton to Blue Mountain/Gulf Place/Dune Allen.

**scooterbug44** · 08-08-2009, 03:11 PM

There is a time and place for golf carts, and bee-bopping down 30-A at half speed causing traffic problems is not it. You can't drive a golf cart (even a "streetlegal" one) between the places you mentioned w/o going significantly slower than the speed limit.

If someone wants a small, high MPG vehicle to run errands on 30-A, I suggest a Smart car or another similiar CAR!

"Roadways where the speed is 35 mph or lower" - stick to those and it won't be a problem.

**30ABandMan** · 08-08-2009, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Everytime

Some people driving them tend to take an extreme version of the pedestrian/cyclist right-of-way mentality that all automobiles must yield to their golf carts in any situation and the golf cart can then drive out into traffic crossing the street obliviously and at will just as a a child may do while riding a bike.

Yep...

**Everytime** · 08-08-2009, 05:10 PM

I thought GEM Cars could go 35 mph, but I checked their website, and it's 25 mph; that being said, there are a few areas of 30-A that are 45 mph, so it could be the case that GEM Cars do not need to be on 30-A.

**bdub** · 08-08-2009, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by scooterbug44

Driving a vehicle whose maximum speed is 15-25 mph below the posted speed limit is not safe.

I appreciate that you want to not take your SUV to run errands and are trying to be more earth friendly, but 30-A is a HIGHWAY and has a speed limit of 45 mph in many places.

I love to see people using street legal golf carts WITHIN their communities instead of driving cars, but 30-A is the main road serving our community and needs to be treated as such.

Bugman ...

I always respect your viewpoint when I see it posted here -- but let's make sure that we are working with facts.

There is a difference between a golf cart and a NEV. Golf carts are not street legal and the NEV's (while they may LOOK like a golf cart) have been upgraded with safety equipment to meet state and federal guidelines.

To be used on the streets in Florida, they must be registered, have a tag and have regular car insurance. You must have a valid driver's license to operate one.

You cannot legally drive a NEV on any stretch of road that has a speed limit greater than 35 MPH. For me, that restricts my NEV roaming to between Watersound and Rosemary Beach. Yes, for all of 2 and a quarter miles, the State of Florida says I am allowed to putt-putt with wild abandon.

You ... and others ... have correctly pointed out that golf carts are sometimes used unsafely and in violation of the law. I think the businesses that rent carts along 30A need to make sure that their customers are well-informed about the rules and regs. I say crack down on the scofflaws. But please don't assume that everything you see running down the road that LOOKS like a golf cart ... is a golf cart.

You are right 30A is a highway -- but it's not 98 -- it's a meandering two lane road through one of the most spectacular areas in America. We already slow for bikers -- and stop for anyone who even looks like they might want to cross the road. I don't see how this is a huge inconvenience. On the other hand, it is an eco-friendly way to tour the area.

If you are among those who love turtles and bemoans beach clutter -- you should celebrate anything that respects this rare and precious emerald gem.

Allow me to add just one other thought that is a little off-point. I am an owner here and hope to become a permanent resident when I retire. It seems to me that there are two kinds of people here on the 30A corridor: the people who live here year round -- and the people who WANT to. The people who live here year round have goods, services and a vibrant economy because of all the people who visit. The taxes we pay help support your Fire Department and your Sheriff's office.

This is not directly aimed at you Scooterbug -- but sometimes I sense an us versus them mentality on this site. I would hope that tax-paying, economy supporting visitors who want to come here and spend 8 grand on an electric car so that they can tour this delicate eco-system in a non-polluting way would be celebrated and not cursed.

Wave if you see me in my navy blue NEV -- I'll pull over and buy you a cup.

bdub

**30ABandMan** · 08-08-2009, 10:50 PM

This is not directly aimed at you Scooterbug -- but sometimes I sense an us versus them mentality on this site. I would hope that tax-paying, economy supporting visitors who want to come here and spend 8 grand on an electric car so that they can tour this delicate eco-system in a non-polluting way would be celebrated and not cursed.

I don't think it is a matter of cursing anyone and I'm certainly not for or against anyone. I moved here knowing what the area was. I'm just bothered by the addition of one more type of traffic to handle or better yet, one more type of something to dodge. If your vehicle is within the code then fine, I'll learn to live with it. But just like the bikers, joggers, pedestrians and now golf cart riders, do your part and make sure you don't leave all of the responsibility of being a courteous member of all of the traffic along 30A to the people who are driving full sized vehicles.

Make sure you buckle up and that all of your passengers are doing the same. Don't let me see you tooling around with a "cold one" in your hand. Keep kids out of the driver's seat and before you pull that thing out in traffic, make sure you can keep up with the posted speeds. I have no problem with peeps enjoying this area but don't become a nuisance either.

**bdub** · 08-09-2009, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by 30ABandMan

Make sure you buckle up and that all of your passengers are doing the same. Don't let me see you tooling around with a "cold one" in your hand. Keep kids out of the driver's seat and before you pull that thing out in traffic, make sure you can keep up with the posted speeds. I have no problem with peeps enjoying this area but don't become a nuisance either.

If by a "cold one" -- you mean a frosty Dr. Pepper -- I'm afraid, I can't make that promise

Why is someone driving respectfully in an NEV (not a golf cart) a nuisance? What about the folks who go blasting down 30A waaay too fast; aren't they the real nuisance? Why isn't there more outrage about that? Accidents are very rarely caused by people obeying the law.

Again, the people who are playing by the rules should not be lumped in with the people who are not. I say, crack down on the people who do not abide by the law. Let's make sure that the rental companies do their part to make sure their customers completely understand the rules.

BTW -- this morning I ran my street legal, registered and insured "green Machine" from Camp Creek Lake to Rosemary at about 7:30. No one was behind me -- no one was bothered. That said, if someone did come up behind me, I would do what I always do --- whip to the side at the first available opportunity and let them pass.

I was buckled, and had everything with me that I needed to comply with the law. Valid driver's license? Check. Florida tag and registration card? Check. Proof of insurance? Check.

I spent $20 bucks on papers and pastries (doing my part to help the local economy) and returned home without serious harm and/or consequence. I also did not belch noxious fumes into the environment. Win/win.

NEV -- Neighborhood Electric Vehicles. You're gonna be hearing a lot about them.

**scooterbug44** · 08-09-2009, 10:02 PM

Bdub-
I am certainly not trying to promote an "us versus them" mentality, just a long overdue dose of reality. While you (welcome to the uber elite chosen few BTW) may know of the rules and speed restrictions and choose to only drive your "street legal" (or whatever acronym) cart on 30-a where it conforms with speed limits, you must realize that is most certainly not the norm. Businesses rent these vehicles w/o telling people the rules (the same as when they rent scooters and bikes w/o helmets or reflectors, kayaks w/o life jackets....)

If you read my posts, you will see that while I love smaller vehicles, biking, and the relaxed 30-a lifestyle, I am also a huge proponent of common sense, personal responsibility, and reality.

A golf cart, a street legal NEV cart, whatever, has no place on 30-a - where I spend WAY more time (either in a bike OR a car) watching out for people behaving like oblivious idiots than I do actually driving or biking.

It's been less than 48 hours since I was almost broadsided by a car running a stopsign, was almost clipped taking out the trash or checking the mail on a side road, saw someone get in a vehicle who shouldn't have been driving, or was the bicyclist almost hit by someone who would have had to put down EITHER the phone or the drink to have a HAND on the wheel and you wonder WHY I think a max 20 mph golf cart on a highway w/ an average speed of 45 mph is a bad idea?

I am ONLY opposed to the NEVs because their speed and the popular mentality of their renters makes them unsafe and potentially lethal. I could give a sheet if I had to wait a couple minutes (I am late for everything anyway and I usually stop and let people cross the road just because, though I do admit I like to piss off the people tailgating me too).

P.S. Yes, I know the morons who are driving the golf carts down 30-a and walking into traffic w/o breaking stride are paying taxes and buying things, but WTF do you think I do on a daily basis as a resident? THAT level of entitlement needs to go buh-bye!

P.P.S. You will note I keep clamoring for the local government to make up their budgetary shortfall by enforcing BASIC traffic/parking laws.

P.P.P.S. I'm not a man!

**30ABandMan** · 08-09-2009, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by scooterbug44

Bdub-
I am certainly not trying to promote an "us versus them" mentality, just a long overdue dose of reality. While you (welcome to the uber elite chosen few BTW) may know of the rules and speed restrictions and choose to only drive your "street legal" (or whatever acronym) cart on 30-a where it conforms with speed limits, you must realize that is most certainly not the norm. Businesses rent these vehicles w/o telling people the rules (the same as when they rent scooters and bikes w/o helmets or reflectors, kayaks w/o life jackets....)

If you read my posts, you will see that while I love smaller vehicles, biking, and the relaxed 30-a lifestyle, I am also a huge proponent of common sense, personal responsibility, and reality.

A golf cart, a street legal NEV cart, whatever, has no place on 30-a - where I spend WAY more time (either in a bike OR a car) watching out for people behaving like oblivious idiots than I do actually driving or biking.

It's been less than 48 hours since I was almost broadsided by a car running a stopsign, was almost clipped taking out the trash or checking the mail on a side road, saw someone get in a vehicle who shouldn't have been driving, or was the bicyclist almost hit by someone who would have had to put down EITHER the phone or the drink to have a HAND on the wheel and you wonder WHY I think a max 20 mph golf cart on a highway w/ an average speed of 45 mph is a bad idea?

I am ONLY opposed to the NEVs because their speed and the popular mentality of their renters makes them unsafe and potentially lethal. I could give a sheet if I had to wait a couple minutes (I am late for everything anyway and I usually stop and let people cross the road just because, though I do admit I like to piss off the people tailgating me too).

P.S. Yes, I know the morons who are driving the golf carts down 30-a and walking into traffic w/o breaking stride are paying taxes and buying things, but WTF do you think I do on a daily basis as a resident? THAT level of entitlement needs to go buh-bye!

P.P.S. You will note I keep clamoring for the local government to make up their budgetary shortfall by enforcing BASIC traffic/parking laws.

P.P.P.S. I'm not a man!

I think you are wonderful!

**Miss Kitty** · 08-10-2009, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by 30ABandMan

I think you are wonderful!

I have to agree...that was one compelling argument against these "legal" golfcartthings.

To the poster who owns the golfcartthing...scooterbug and 30abandman are really looking our for your safety, as well.

**bdub** · 08-10-2009, 11:28 AM

okay, okay ..

I will be the first to admit when Scooterbug (sorry for the gender confusion) and the ever popular and widely admired Miss Kitty align against me -- I've gotta problem.

Look, I understand that some people do not follow the rules. I understand that some rental companies are not doing the right thing. I also know there are people driving traditional vehicles who are not following the rules and not doing the right thing. They are driving too fast and endangering lives much more than I am. If you are honest -- you will have to admit I am right on at least this point.

Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water. Let's address those who are not operating within the boundaries of the law -- and allow law abiding NEV driver's to live and let live. We have good and valid reasons for choosing this as a transportation option. It's good and fine to talk the talk about the environment --- some of us want to walk the walk.

It's new -- it's different -- it's change and I understand that some people cannot accept change easily. Not all change is bad -- and sometimes change is rough around the edges until people become better informed.

As for my "us vs. them" rant: I do not feel entitled --- I simply want to point out that you don't have to live here full time to have a deep and abiding appreciation for this area. We (the part-timers and the vacationers) also contribute to what goes on here -- and we shouldn't be automatically viewed as a group with malevolent intent.

I shall not dare to engage in additional debate --. for I know that it is fruitless to banter with the all-powerful and immensely influential Miss Kitty. A man needs to know his limitations and I know I simply am not up to the challenge of debating such an intellectually towering and popular figure.

I will however continue to operate my NEV in full-compliance with the laws of Florida and live content in the knowledge that I am making a small difference.

bdub

**Truffle Anne** · 08-10-2009, 03:49 PM

I shall not dare to engage in additional debate --. for I know that it is fruitless to banter with the all-powerful and immensely influential Miss Kitty. A man needs to know his limitations and I know I simply am not up to the challenge of debating such an intellectually towering and popular figure.

Plus, she has alots of style, n'est pas? Remember to back slowly out of the room.

It's good and fine to talk the talk about the environment --- some of us want to walk the walk.

Have you thought about walking?
Just kidding, bdub. Keep on moving over to let fasters pass-yer. I do that in my real-life car when I'm on my Sunday evening sightseein' slow crawl down to Seaslide.

**robertsondavies** · 08-10-2009, 04:03 PM

I'm all for NEV/ Golf Carts on 30a - They are a win / win. I am an owner down there now, and hope to retire there too like the other poster bdub. I think the NEV allowance under Florida statute is brilliant compromise.
I will support public flogging, ticketing, hard labor, for those who will not pull over (when Sunday driving, or in a too slow NEV, or on a bike on the damn road) and let traffic pass through at the first opportunity.
But to talk against NEV's on 30a, seems so antithetical to the a large part of the design, beauty, and raison d'etre, and substance of the 30A scene, I would have thought this would be the last part of Florida where opposition would arise, from those seeking to force people to use their Suburbans and Tahoes to run errands, and sight see. arghh

**ray** · 08-10-2009, 05:51 PM

I bought a home on 30-a to get away from the panama city scene of golf carts and scooters on the road. I'm now seeing golf carts parked on the bike paths to several private beach access areas on 30-a which i think is illegal i can understand the gym cars but kids zooming around on 30-a is crazy. my question is it seems the culprit is butterfly bikes as i see all the golf carts and scooters there. are there golf carts street legal? those scooters go very slow and i'm seeing people drying them in 45 mph zones which is illegal

**Miss Kitty** · 08-11-2009, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by bdub

okay, okay ..

I will be the first to admit when Scooterbug (sorry for the gender confusion) and the ever popular and widely admired Miss Kitty align against me -- I've gotta problem.

Look, I understand that some people do not follow the rules. I understand that some rental companies are not doing the right thing. I also know there are people driving traditional vehicles who are not doing following the rules and not doing the right thing. They are driving too fast and endangering lives much more than I am. If you are honest -- you will have to admit I am right on at least this point.

Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water. Let's address those who are not operating within the boundaries of the law -- and allow law abiding NEV driver's to live and let live. We have good and valid reasons for choosing this as a transportation option. It's good and fine to talk the talk about the environment --- some of us want to walk the walk.

It's new -- it's different -- it's change and I understand that some people cannot accept change easily. Not all change is bad -- and sometimes change is rough around the edges until people become better informed.

As for my "us vs. them" rant: I do not feel entitled --- I simply want to point out that you don't have to live here full time to have a deep and abiding appreciation for this area. We (the part-timers and the vacationers) also contribute to what goes on here -- and we shouldn't be automatically viewed as a group with malevolent intent.

I shall not dare to engage in additional debate --. for I know that it is fruitless to banter with the all-powerful and immensely influential Miss Kitty. A man needs to know his limitations and I know I simply am not up to the challenge of debating such an intellectually towering and popular figure.

I will however continue to operate my NEV in full-compliance with the laws and Florida and live content in the knowledge that I am making a small difference.

bdub

Oh, geez and FTLOC, bdubuddy! Miss Kitty is not all-powerful or all the whineybehinds would be gone by now.

Just because I have an insane amount of posts, it does not make my opinion better or worse than any other. Let me also add, that if you took a poll, popular would not be the attribute I am known for...annoying, maybe.

So, know that we have that clear, I do have an opinion. You say your golfcartthing is the wave of the future and I would agree that is does help the earth in it's own way, but until there is a designated path for the gcthing, I am afraid for your safety on 30A. If you were jsut using it in your community or to cross 30A to get to a beach access, I would say, go for it! Be careful out there!

Originally Posted by Truffle Anne

I shall not dare to engage in additional debate --. for I know that it is fruitless to banter with the all-powerful and immensely influential Miss Kitty. A man needs to know his limitations and I know I simply am not up to the challenge of debating such an intellectually towering and popular figure.

Plus, she has alots of style, n'est pas? Remember to back slowly out of the room.

It's good and fine to talk the talk about the environment --- some of us want to walk the walk.

Have you thought about walking?
Just kidding, bdub. Keep on moving over to let fasters pass-yer. I do that in my real-life car when I'm on my Sunday evening sightseein' slow crawl down to Seaslide.

..thanks, TA.

Being skeered of me is something I thought only Mr. Kitty experienced.

**bdub** · 08-11-2009, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by robertsondavies

I'm all for NEV/ Golf Carts on 30a - They are a win / win. I am an owner down there now, and hope to retire there too like the other poster bdub. I think the NEV allowance under Florida statute is brilliant compromise.
I will support public flogging, ticketing, hard labor, for those who will not pull over (when Sunday driving, or in a too slow NEV, or on a bike on the damn road) and let traffic pass through at the first opportunity.
But to talk against NEV's on 30a, seems so antithetical to the a large part of the design, beauty, and raison d'etre, and substance of the 30A scene, I would have thought this would be the last part of Florida where opposition would arise, from those seeking to force people to use their Suburbans and Tahoes to run errands, and sight see. arghh

Yay! I am not alone!

**bdub** · 08-11-2009, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by ray

I bought a home on 30-a to get away from the panama city scene of golf carts and scooters on the road. I'm now seeing golf carts parked on the bike paths to several private beach access areas on 30-a which i think is illegal i can understand the gym cars but kids zooming around on 30-a is crazy. my question is it seems the culprit is butterfly bikes as i see all the golf carts and scooters there. are there golf carts street legal? those scooters go very slow and i'm seeing people drying them in 45 mph zones which is illegal

I do not know about the scooters -- the NEV's (not golf carts) are not allowed in the 45MPH zones (see my earlier postings). You are not the first to mention a certain rental company. I hope that they are watching this space. If THEY are not requiring their customers to operate under the requirements of the law -- maybe someone with a badge will make a friendly visit.

It would be in their best interest to get legal ... quick.

I know, I promised not to enter the debate again (so consider this just an observation), but I think we can all co-exist.

and I still widely admire Miss Kitty and Miss Scooterbug -- though we may never see eye to eye.

bdub

**Andy A** · 08-11-2009, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Miss Kitty

Oh, geez and FTLOC, bdubuddy! Miss Kitty is not all-powerful or all the whineybehinds would be gone by now.

Just because I have an insane amount of posts, it does not make my opinion better or worse than any other. Let me also add, that if you took a poll, popular would not be the attribute I am known for...annoying, maybe.

So, know that we have that clear, I do have an opinion. You say your golfcartthing is the wave of the future and I would agree that is does help the earth in it's own way, but until there is a designated path for the gcthing, I am afraid for your safety on 30A. If you were jsut using it in your community or to cross 30A to get to a beach access, I would say, go for it! Be careful out there!

..thanks, TA.

Being skeered of me is something I thought only Mr. Kitty experienced.

No, there are plenty others of us skeert of you, too. I understand Mr. Kitty from experience with mine.

**joho** · 08-11-2009, 10:43 AM

It will take someone getting hurt or killed on one of the "unlicensed" golf carts before this situation is truly enforced.

I repeatedly see "children" without the supervision of an adult driving
erratically on 30A with usually a group hanging off the back!

**AliKat** · 08-11-2009, 11:17 AM

I think it personally it would be cool if 30A area was golf cart friendly like Peachtree City, GA. Don't see why everyone is so worked up about a golf cart? Have you ever had someone fly by you and almost cause a dozen wrecks and then you end up at the same red light? Unless you are travelling at Intersate speeds 10-15 mph is really not going to get you there that much faster. So my suggestion is just slow down and enjoy the view with them and then be thankful that in this economy there are tourists in front of you pumping money into our local economy by renting their vacation rental, eating out, buying groceries, and renting golf carts that in turn give money to the local govt for tags. Chances are being behind them is going to add about 5 minutes to your commute.

**SWGB** · 08-11-2009, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by AliKat

I think it personally it would be cool if 30A area was golf cart friendly like Peachtree City, GA. Don't see why everyone is so worked up about a golf cart? Have you ever had someone fly by you and almost cause a dozen wrecks and then you end up at the same red light? Unless you are travelling at Intersate speeds 10-15 mph is really not going to get you there that much faster. So my suggestion is just slow down and enjoy the view with them and then be thankful that in this economy there are tourists in front of you pumping money into our local economy by renting their vacation rental, eating out, buying groceries, and renting golf carts that in turn give money to the local govt for tags. Chances are being behind them is going to add about 5 minutes to your commute.

Once again it must be pointed out that "pumping money into the local economy" is not a license to be a complete moron. People who have this attitude are more than welcome to pack up their vast stacks of cash and move on to a locale more welcoming of tourists with that mind set. When leaving just remember that Panama City Beach is to your left and Destin is to your right.

**scooterbug44** · 08-11-2009, 11:41 AM

The problem w/ NEV's on 30-a is that 1) they do not meet the requirements of that road and 2) they are so similar to a golf cart that people treat them like a cart instead of a car OR think that they can then drive their golf cart on the road - unlicensed drivers, overloading them, no safety equipment or not using the equipment etc.

There are a variety of other "earth friendly" vehicles that are a better option and that you can also get a tax credit on.

**aggieb** · 08-11-2009, 11:52 AM

until you have witnessed or experienced a golf cart related death, you'll rethink having them in sowal. when adults aren't responsible enough to drive them and death is a result, children aren't either. the story is, groomsmen playing golf and drinking. the day of or before the wedding (can't remember) groom's brother goes flying down steep hill. golf cart flips, hits head directly on golf path. rushed to hospital, died. you think it can't/won't/doesn't happen. it does.

**bdub** · 08-11-2009, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by scooterbug44

The problem w/ NEV's on 30-a is that 1) they do not meet the requirements of that road and 2) they are so similar to a golf cart that people treat them like a cart instead of a car OR think that they can then drive their golf cart on the road - unlicensed drivers, overloading them, no safety equipment or not using the equipment etc.

There are a variety of other "earth friendly" vehicles that are a better option and that you can also get a tax credit on.

just a quibble -- but the state of Florida has deemed that the NEV's (not the golf carts) DO meet the requirements to be driven on roadways where the speed limit is 35 or less.

Crack down on those who are not licensed -- do not have a tag -- and do not have a vehicle that meets the requirements of the state. There is a difference.