What is "fine dining"?

**kurt** · 03-04-2010, 04:17 PM

Can the restaurant:
Have a kids' menu?
Have 2 for 1 specials?

Must it:
Have white linen table cloths?
Have an extensive wine list?

Just curious what the characteristics/requirements are and what people think.

What is considered "fine dining" in SoWal? Are requirements different in a beach/vacation community?

**ForestBayGal** · 03-04-2010, 05:28 PM

Take your wife to Commanders Palace/Destin for a dinner date and you will know what fine dining is or is not. A total experience you will most likely enjoy. Bon Appetit!

**SWGB** · 03-05-2010, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by ForestBayGal

Take your wife to Commanders Palace/Destin for a dinner date and you will know what fine dining is or is not. A total experience you will most likely enjoy. Bon Appetit!

So a middle aged man wearing a Phantom mask is a requirement?

**John R** · 03-05-2010, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by SWGB

So a middle aged man wearing a Phantom mask is a requirement?

Seriously? I don't include dinner theatre in the fine dining category.

**Smiling JOe** · 03-05-2010, 07:57 AM

True fine dining allows well behaved children, but fine diners know better than to take their kids to a fine dining restaurant. The child might be lucky enough for the kitchen to prepare something like a gourmet grilled cheese, but there would never be a kid's menu. The kids would be expected to behave like proper adults.

Dinner jacket would be required for men, and ties heavily recommended. If ties are not worn, expect a small selection of ties to appear before the man makes it to the door of the dining room, with the suggestion, "perhaps you would feel more comfortable wearing one of these in our restaurant."

The only thing "special" in fine dining restaurants are the prices on holidays like Valentine's Day, and they are special in a way, much different than 2 for 1.

Table cloths are a must, but not always white, and not always linen. Glass tops covering table clothes so that the restaurant can save money on laundry are a no-no.

An extensive wine list is not a requirement, and can simply be too overwhelming to make customers feel comfortable. Higher end, quality wines are expected, and perhaps a few relatively moderate priced wines would be welcomed by many customers.

Ah, the food. Food is a requirement, not only great tasting, but also well presented and the servers should be knowledgeable enough that they can accurately recommend wines to balance any of the foods on the menu.

Service -- Fine dining is as much about the atmosphere and service as it is the actual food. Expect your napkin to be straightened when you leave your seat at any time. You should always be served replacement silverware before any dish is served which might require a utensil. You should never have to ask for anything. Instead, servers should expect your needs, and be prepared to ask. You would never hear, "You want me to get you some more water?"

Atmosphere - it varies, but the setting would be formal and you wouldn't see posters on the wall. Perhaps there would be softly played live music, such as classical guitar or piano.

Do we have fine dining in South Walton? I'm not sure that I would go that far, nor am I sure that there is enough demand for formal dining these days to actually keep the doors open on the restaurant. I've been to numerous fine dining restaurants at the most prominent country clubs in the south eastern USA, and can tell you that fine dining is a declining art, as diners are changing over to the more casual dining establishments which serve great food. We are more of a FaceBook world than we are a Piedmont Driving Club world and people in general are a little more relaxed as the generations turn. My favorite restaurant in the world, Segar's, formerly located on West Pace's Ferry, just down the street from the Governor's mansion in Atlanta, closed its doors several years ago. It was as good as it gets in the world of fine dining. Forget the Ritz, and forget the stuff private clubs. Segar's was owned and operated by a Master Chef, and the servers were with him from day one of opening. Imagine a restaurant where the servers never changed. There were two menus each night -- you either ordered dinner, or dinner with paired wines. Dinner was a seven course meal and if you wanted wine with dinner, you were served a paired wine with each course. There were no rules on refills, so as long as you had food on the plate, you had wine in the glass. Dining took two to three hours and was a treat you would forever remember. That was fine dining!

Fine dining patrons have been diminishing since the mid 1990's, and are difficult to find anywhere. Here at the beach, we mostly have upscale casual dining. Good examples would be Cafe 30A, Cafe Tango, Borago, Bud and Alley's, Calysa, and George's. A few restaurants in the area come to mind when I think of fine dining, though they don't feel as formal as what I think of as fine dining -- Pardis (Rosemary Beach), Seagar's (Sandestin Hilton), and Flemings (which is wierd to think since they are a chain). Chops 30A feels like it is trying to be a fine dining restaurant too, much like Flemings, but in my opinion, it is not. Out of all of the restaurants in our area, Paradis would probably be the closest to "fine dining," as I define it. However, Paradis doesn't feel formal and stuffy. It actually feels warm and cozy, yet refined.

**Red Dawg** · 03-05-2010, 11:15 AM

What about Fish Out of Water? I was told they do not allow children for dinner.

**scooterbug44** · 03-05-2010, 11:43 AM

I think "fine dining" is that which is truly a cut above in food, service, quality, and atmosphere - not necessarily based on a strict "tie required" dress code, $$ prices, or decor, but something that makes you feel special and like it is an event.

Agree that service and the overall atmosphere is a HUGE part of this.

IMO fine dining does NOT include young children, sloppy attire, funky/beachy decor, plastic chairs, cell phones, loud drunks, servers in shorts or t-shirts, or TELEVISIONS!

I have been to some amazing restaurants and true fine dining knocks your socks off and outright spoils you for other restaurants.

Even though Sowal restaurants are a cut above most, I think there is a level of casualness in most of them that keeps them out of the "fine dining" category.

**SWGB** · 03-05-2010, 12:42 PM

I would consider Fire fine dining as well. While they don't adhere to the "old guard" of fine dining like turning away patrons who don't have jackets and ties, I've found that the staff has, for the most part, been with the restaurant since their inception in New Orleans, is very knowledgeable regarding food and wine pairing, and the food is always exceptional.

Just as diners palettes have progressed so has fine dining. I think fine dining as SJ describes it was doomed once people realized that you can't taste jackets, ties, and snooty waiters.

**scooterbug44** · 03-05-2010, 12:50 PM

Snooty and rigid is very "country club" and not "fine dining" IMO.

Absolute best restaurant I have ever been to (AAA 4 Diamond) I was wearing jeans and a sweater - because it was at the top of a mountain and you had to take 2 gondolas to get there.

**John R** · 03-05-2010, 01:52 PM

You'll know fine dining when you experience it.

**KISH7374** · 03-05-2010, 02:59 PM

I would like to experience fine dining as SJ describes it at least once. But, I am more of a jeans and polo shirt kind of guy or shorts and polo. This does not mean that you can't get a great meal but to really dress up and impress the wife once like that would be worth it.

**scooterbug44** · 03-05-2010, 03:06 PM

It is funn to get all dolled up for a meal once in a while and be surrounded by nicely dressed people!

Looking nice is key for fine dining IMO. Polo shirt and slacks is okay - baseball caps, visors, flip flops, t shirts - hells no!

**bluemtnrunner** · 03-05-2010, 04:09 PM

I love fine dining but actual prefer a good balance. I'm not always thrilled to have the waiter put the napkin on my lap. I think of Highlands in Birmingham because you get the fine dining service and food but the atmosphere in the one dining room is more relaxed. We are treated like royalty and the meals can last forever, one amazing bit after another with some incredible wine selections.
Man, I want to go NOW!!!!!

**Teresa** · 03-05-2010, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by scooterbug44

I think "fine dining" is that which is truly a cut above in food, service, quality, and atmosphere - not necessarily based on a strict "tie required" dress code, $$ prices, or decor, but something that makes you feel special and like it is an event.

Agree that service and the overall atmosphere is a HUGE part of this.

IMO fine dining does NOT include young children, sloppy attire, funky/beachy decor, plastic chairs, cell phones, loud drunks, servers in shorts or t-shirts, or TELEVISIONS!

I have been to some amazing restaurants and true fine dining knocks your socks off and outright spoils you for other restaurants.

Even though Sowal restaurants are a cut above most, I think there is a level of casualness in most of them that keeps them out of the "fine dining" category.

I agree scooty. if there is a TV, it is not fine dining.

To me, it seems that fine dining has a much broader definition than in the past. But the basic criteria still applies: menu, service and atmosphere. I absolutely consider Paradis, Onano, Fish Out of Water, Flemings, 30A Chops, Ruth Chris and Cafe Tango to be fine dining on the coast (Criolla's was on that list for ages). I haven't been to Commander's Palace but I would imagine it offers fine dining as well .. plus one or two in Sandestin I'm not familiar with. These fine dining restaurants are considered very special places and often visited on special occasions. they offer an exceptional meal lasting the evening. They may not qualify as the finest of fine dining in a traditional sense, but these restaurants offer fine dining nevertheless - you will find all of the classics of fine dining such as white linen table cloth, complete with white linen napkins, china, quality flat wear & glass wear, exceptional wine & liquor menu, professional servers, very attentive customer service, outstanding chef designed and prepared dishes and desserts, and wonderful atmosphere. in my opinion, we do offer fine dining in the classical sense and in the more broad sense.

However, we are lucky enough to have many casual dining places offering unique and excellent dining experiences in a comfortable, relaxed atmosphere. Ahhhhhhhhh - then you know you are having a fine time at the beach. Please remove your tie.

**zip** · 03-05-2010, 06:51 PM

any restaurant without a fried food basket. This is a local thing.

**LuciferSam** · 03-06-2010, 12:13 AM

They only use Grey Poupon.

**SWGB** · 03-06-2010, 12:04 PM

**InletBchOwnr** · 03-07-2010, 10:11 AM

Fine dining does not serve children; the very young or otherwise, neither chilled, poached, fried, boiled, broiled or grilled. Maybe sauteed with a nice key anti and garlic fava beans.
IMHO.

**Teresa** · 03-07-2010, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by zip

any restaurant without a fried food basket. This is a local thing.

oh but some of my favorite bistro French dining involves a very tender and delicious filet of beef or veal with a wonderful au jus and a side of perfectly fried real pommes frites. maybe not fine dining but these are some of the finest dining experiences I've ever had.

oh no - now that I have thought it and typed it I have to have it today.

**LuciferSam** · 03-07-2010, 12:21 PM

For the kids, hot dogs are served on a covered silver platter. I'll never forget that one. That was the only time I had to salt a hot dog. It probably had been in the freezer for a couple of years.

**Paula** · 03-07-2010, 01:32 PM

Fine dining is any food that is so good that it brings you to tears, whether that's at a restaurant, the beach, a friends house, home.

One of my kids just said the food was so good at a restaurant we went to recently (the Mad Hatter on Sanibel Island - you can watch the sunset while dining) that she almost peed her pants.

And, if the context is romantic enough and you're with the right person, the experience of amazing food in a romanic setting makes you want to say, "Take me now..." (Two excellent restaurants in Cleveland of all places have that effect - Dante's and The Flying Fig)

(We're all pretty enthusiastic eaters at our house!)

**kurt** · 03-07-2010, 06:21 PM

So it sounds like SoWal has upscale casual but not fine dining.

**Paula** · 03-07-2010, 08:57 PM

I was REALLY impressed with the restaurants in Cleveland (Cleveland, by the way, was voted the worst city in the U.S by some ranking agency, but we had a really nice time there). We have fine dining in Ann Arbor, and I've eaten in very nice restaurants. World class to me now means having a world class chef in which the food is outstanding and the presentation itself is artistic. The service is top-of-the-line as well.

I've had great food in a lot of places, so world-class dining doesn't necessarily mean the be-all-end-all, but it really does seem to be a class in itself. So, again, I think world-class chef, artistic presentation, outstanding service (and special setting -- which SoWal certainly has in many of its restaurants).

**Ohio Girl** · 03-08-2010, 06:57 AM

Thanks for the Cleveland shout out! We may have crummy weather but we do have excellent restaurants. Went to Dante's last week and it was superb. Gotta try Parallax next time you're in town.

**Desso** · 03-08-2010, 08:24 AM

Love Cleveland. Great restaurants and people. Definitely not the worst city in the US. I've been to the worst and Cleveland ain't it.

**Paula** · 03-08-2010, 04:54 PM

I agree about Cleveland. New York and Chicago were also on the list of worst cities, so that's great company to be in!

Cleveland has a great art museum. They definitely want to put themselves on the Map as a fine dining city. And I like it that the restaurants near Dante's all help each other out rather than compete. Lolitas recommended Dantes and Dante's said they don't put some things on their menu if it's already on another restaurant's menu. And the Flying Fig and Dante's were very romantic.

I'll try Parallex next time. Cleveland is only 2.5 hours away and we plan to go back.

**scooterbug44** · 03-08-2010, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by LuciferSam

For the kids, hot dogs are served on a covered silver platter. I'll never forget that one. That was the only time I had to salt a hot dog. It probably had been in the freezer for a couple of years.

If there was a hot dog allowed on the premises it was not fine dining.

IF (and it's a big if) kids darken the door of a true fine dining restaurant they order the same items as adults.

**Green Knight** · 03-08-2010, 05:40 PM

Don't really think there is fine dining on The Emerald Coast..We have some excellent Upscale Casual Places but nothing what I would consider fine dining...Pano and Pauls in Atlanta back in the day was Fine Dining..The French Laundry in Napa....Inn at Little Washington outside DC... are the type of places I consider Fine Dining

**tistheseason** · 03-09-2010, 07:38 AM

I think Paradis and Fish out of Water are fine dining. Caliza, too. Fine dining at the beach is a little more relaxed than in a major metropolian area. The whole area is more relaxed than a big city --so I think it makes sense that the dining follows suit. I also think Find Dining in Atlanta is a little different than Fine Dining in Paris. Both reflect the culture of the city.