Cancer & the environment

[GraytonBound]

OK, I know this is too serious a topic for the lounge, but it sounds like we have a lot of intelligent people out there.

What's your opinion of cancer as it relates to geographic areas? I have done some research on this topic & visited the cancer websites, and there is so much info it's hard to sort out. I think it was the American Cancer website that had charts of diagnosed cases and mortality rates by type of cancer listed by state. Seems that the southern states (excluding Florida) had the highest incidences. Are the hospitals not as good, are the people less educated (don't take that personally I am a southern girl), is it something in the air?

Seems odd to me that of the 8 kids within a block of our house, 5 of them have asthma. Also heard someone the other day say that 3 kids in one neighborhood have the same type of rare cancer (I think it was called neuroblastoma?)

Is it possible to say certain cities are targets for cancer? Would they publicize it if it were true?

Anyway, if this it too serious of a topic don't feel that you have to answer....just something on my mind today

[kurt]

In general, the more developed an area, the more exposure to all kinds of toxins. Then you have the genetic factors, which might be why you see higher rates in certain areas. Everyone in the South is related?

In TN, it could be due to mining? I know the copper mining up there was very hazardous to health, and could still be.

Diet is another huge deal, especially in different parts of the world.

It is all confusing.

[Sheila]

In general, the more developed an area, the more exposure to all kinds of toxins. Then you have the genetic factors, which might be why you see higher rates in certain areas. Everyone in the South is related?

In TN, it could be due to mining? I know the copper mining up there was very hazardous to health, and could still be.

Diet is another huge deal, especially in different parts of the world.

It is all confusing.

Genetics is a biggie. I am a 2 time survivor of breast cancer. My Dad's Mom, his sister both died from it in the early '60's. My Dad had thyroid and prostate cancer. My Dad's youngest sister passed away 2 years ago from ovarian cancer.

Not all cases are related to genetics. In my case, I think better than a good chance. I am only speaking for myself here.

[GraytonBound]

especially in different parts of the world.

Just curious, are there certain parts of the world with little or no cancer? Wonder what's different there. I guess that's the million $$ question.

[RiverOtter]

One of my brothers and 2 of his friends that live within 2 miles of each other got cancer at the same time (age's 28 and 29) My brother didn't make it. The other 2 did.

[BeachDreamer]

Interesting discussion topic. I haven't seen rates based on location, but I know that a LOT of cancers are preventable and environmental so maybe that ties it all in.

Vaccinations (Polio) are linked to cancer (As well as a myriad of other health problems). It amazes me how many people truck their kids up to the health center for vaccinations without doing their research. In this day and age, the only one looking out for your kids is you, so trusting the pharmacutical companies to let us know about risks and dangers is risky and dangerous. But that's another discussion topic in itself.

I think lifestyle is probably most critical in reference to cancer rates. Lack of proper diet and exercise are strongly linked to cancer. Prenatal exposure to chemicals. CT scans, radiation, and exposure to high powered power lines are linked to cancer. The sun, of course, is a source of cancer, and it would naturally be more prevelant in the South. Skin cancer is such a danger in Australia that they have laws decreeing hats must be worn while outside in the sun.

Lifestyles in the south may differ from those in the north. America definitely has a higher rate than many countries who have not yet adopted our western lifestyle.

[BeachDreamer]

I'm sorry for your loss RiverOtter... Did they ever find out what the likely cause was?

[RiverOtter]

I'm sorry for your loss RiverOtter... Did they ever find out what the likely cause was?

Thanks, nope. It was several years ago and they know so much more now.

[GraytonBound]

We have done all the kids' shots that the dr's told us to, but have since met a family who didn't do the shots. I thought you had to do it to get into kindergarden. But other than shots I have questioned most of what the dr's have told me, and several times have taken my kids off of drugs that I decided weren't necessary (allergy shots, inhalers)


My grandmother is a very healthy 92 year old who I found out has the same philosophy & has stayed away from drugs her entire life. I'm not suggesting people flush their Rx's, just that they do their own research & trust their own instincts.

My dad died at 46 but he was a long-time smoker. His sister had breast cancer 2 years ago & has never done anything wrong in her life. Anyhow, I wish there was some way to really figure out what causes this.

In the meantime, eat right & walk every day !!!!

[Paula]

I'm sure this posting is getting a lot of hits because cancer seems to affect most families in one way or another. My mom's family has a history of breast cancer in particular, although she died of pancreatic cancer (our cottage now has her wonderful dining room table set that has gone through 3 generations eating home-made ravioli together -- it's wonderful to see it in its new home at the beach with us eating gumbo on it together as a family -- life's funny that way). Not surprisingly, when we were growing up we lived near a factory called "Plastic Coatings" in Massachusetts. Our elementary school could smell the fumes because it was right next door -- so you can be I'm getting as much enjoyment out of life (and the beach) as I can. So far, my 2 sisters and I are fine. I found a website once that has the list of places that tended to have higher than average cancer rates (So. Walton and nearby areas weren't on it, but at least one place on the Gulf Coast/Panhandle was).

As for life span, here are two websites you may enjoy:

http://www.livingto100.com which is a site in which you complete a survey about your health/life habits and it gives you a predicted age. The survey is by the physician who runs the New England Centennarian (sp?) studies. Of course, the survey can't really predict your longevity, but it gives you great advice on how to stay healthy. For people with a history of disease in the family, the advice is to get regular check-ups and stay on top of it. Many diseases can be managed if found early enough.

http://www.realage.com which is a site in which you type in your age and then answer a bunch of questions. Then it gives you your age based on your life style. Most people who are middle class come out younger so if you come out older (or even the same age) then that suggests you want to focus on your health.

Both websites are fun and very useful. Both are also based on credible studies, although -- again -- they really don't predict your age or longevity, but rather give you insight into what you can do to control what you can in your health and life.

Hope this is helpful. And this discussion is really inspiring me to relax more and enjoy as much as I can for as long as I can (by the way, I type "96" as my predicted age of death in those online retirement planners -- clearly, an optimist - by the way, there's a recent study that found that older people who were optimistic about the aging process tended to live about 7 years longer than those who were more pessimistic).

Paula

[GraytonBound]

Thanks for the links Paula, I can't wait to play around on the websites.

As far as your comment about people with family history getting regular check-ups, I keep getting frustrated around here with the dr's who say I don't need any tests run just because of family history. NO, I don't need a mammogram just because my aunt had breast cancer. NO, I don't need colon screening even though my dad died at 46. Apparently it's hard to convince the insurance company to pay for anything if you're under 50.

I LOVE your comment about your mom's table, what a great way to look at life. And I'm also convinced that being an optimist does a lot for health & happiness....just wish I were one....I'm working on it :)

[Paula]

My doctor is very good. She has agreed to the different tests I was convinced I needed, even before I was 50 (I'm 51). Now, I think I've been tested for just about everything so I'm going to just get my annual physicals and not think too much about it other than take care of myself and keep an eye out for signs of anything that's not quite right -- and exercise more. It can drive a person crazy to worry about all the genetic things a family could have. How about trying a different doctor or insurance plan?

Also, perhaps if you found a website or research that said people who have a history of colon cancer in the family should be tested before age 30 (and brought the article in -- ideally several articles), the physican would agree to a test. They really don't know everything and they're busy and worried about saving money. But it would be hard to argue with the research.

Hope you get the tests you want and should get...

[Smiling JOe]

My doctor is very good. She has agreed to the different tests I was convinced I needed, even before I was 50 (I'm 51). Now, I think I've been tested for just about everything so I'm going to just get my annual physicals and not think too much about it other than take care of myself and keep an eye out for signs of anything that's not quite right -- and exercise more. It can drive a person crazy to worry about all the genetic things a family could have. How about trying a different doctor or insurance plan?

Also, perhaps if you found a website or research that said people who have a history of colon cancer in the family should be tested before age 30 (and brought the article in -- ideally several articles), the physican would agree to a test. They really don't know everything and they're busy and worried about saving money. But it would be hard to argue with the research.

Hope you get the tests you want and should get...

I would fire my doctor and find one who will listen to my needs and concerns.

[BeachDreamer]

We have done all the kids' shots that the dr's told us to, but have since met a family who didn't do the shots. I thought you had to do it to get into kindergarden.

They do everything they can to make people think that vaccinations are required, but you can get a waiver. Depending on the state, they may or may not totally harrass you about it. We homeschool so it's not so much an issue for us.

But since the internet has provided so many common folks with research and information, more and more people are coming to question the safety of vaccinations. Mostly the MMR and Polio. Chickenpox shots are untried and no one knows what the long-term effects or protection may or may not be. Hep B shots for newborns? We've found a lot of doctors who are more conservative about vaccinations, but none that are on our HMO.

[Paula]

By the way, I made a typo in my earlier message. I think the medical research says that the average man and woman with no history of colon cancer should have a screening at age 50. People with a family history should have it before age 50 (I said "before age 30").

[shakennotstirred]

As far as your comment about people with family history getting regular check-ups, I keep getting frustrated around here with the dr's who say I don't need any tests run just because of family history. NO, I don't need a mammogram just because my aunt had breast cancer.)

Perhaps you should shop around for another doctor. It is my understanding that you should have at least a baseline mammogram before the age of 40. I have a friend who was diagnosed at 36 and did not have any family history. IMO - better safe than sorry. They can do so much for breast cancer these days if it is caught in the early stages.

[GraytonBound]

Yep, my aunt's was caught very early on a routine mammogram & she is fine, after surgery & chemo of course. I'll be 40 next year & the doc told me to wait til then, which I'm sure is fine, but I swear EVERY complaint I've ever taken to a doc they say it's "just stress". That seems to be a catch-all that the insurance co's want them to use, IMHO.

[Bob]

My wife grew up in the shadow of the biggest chemical plant in the south, Kingsport, TN. Owned by then Eastmann Kodak. Her father was 33 years an engineer for Eastmann. Had asthma as a child, then in her mid thirties, colon cancer. The surgeon said " you are too young for this". I guarantee you if she had stayed where she was born, on the Ga. side of Lookout Mt. as a child she would have had neither ailment as an adult. I feel it's the air we breath and the food we eat that's the culprit. No one in her family tree has had cancer.

[GraytonBound]

Yep, I bet the air is great on the GA side of Lookout, unless all the St.Elmo pollution rises up to it (Chattem is down there).


Sorry about your wife's history & hope everything is ok now. There was a lady in our neighborhood that died a couple of years ago, story has it her dad worked in a plant & she did all his laundry growing up, something about the chemicals on his clothes


Anyhow, does anyone have an opinon of organic foods? Is there a good store down there? We have one in our neighborhood & use it quite a bit but it certainly kills the food budget.

[phdphay]

They do everything they can to make people think that vaccinations are required, but you can get a waiver. Depending on the state, they may or may not totally harrass you about it. We homeschool so it's not so much an issue for us.

But since the internet has provided so many common folks with research and information, more and more people are coming to question the safety of vaccinations. Mostly the MMR and Polio. Chickenpox shots are untried and no one knows what the long-term effects or protection may or may not be. Hep B shots for newborns? We've found a lot of doctors who are more conservative about vaccinations, but none that are on our HMO.

I think you have a point about vaccinations. I have a new standard poodle puppy, and the standard poodle world is convinced that over-vaccinating dogs is a primary cause of disease. Standard poodles are afflicted with a long list of illnesses such as Addison's, squamous cell carcinoma, etc., and many people are convinced that this is due to over-vaccination. UC-Davis is studying this very issue. To keep our puppy from getting diseased as so many SPs are, we plan to follow the Dr. Dodds vaccination protocol to minimize her exposure to unnecessary vaccinations.

[GraytonBound]

WOW!


Guess it's too late now for those of us who have aleady followed dr's orders with our kids At least we we will be more aware when considering future Rx's.

[beachmouse]

There's a small health food grocery store in the shopping center with, I think, Big Daddy's in Blue Mountain Beach. Pretty good selection of products, but their prices can be a little high.

Publix generally has a decent amount of organic foods as well.

[BeachDreamer]

WOW!


Guess it's too late now for those of us who have aleady followed dr's orders with our kids At least we we will be more aware when considering future Rx's.

We had our first daughter vaccinated too Grayton, before we knew anything about it. At least we can teach our kids about it so they can make informed decisions with the grandbabies when the time comes.

Organic food sounds like a great idea. It is indeed a budget buster though! Worth it I bet if you could afford it.

[kurt]

We had our first daughter vaccinated too Grayton, before we knew anything about it. At least we can teach our kids about it so they can make informed decisions with the grandbabies when the time comes.

Organic food sounds like a great idea. It is indeed a budget buster though! Worth it I bet if you could afford it.

Getting sick is what is expensive.

[BeachDreamer]

Getting sick is what is expensive.

Too true, Kurt!

[GraytonBound]

Publix generally has a decent amount of organic foods as well.

What I would give for a Publix in the Nooga...that's another one of the things we love about the beach...you have a Publix down there!

[beachmouse]

You'd think that since they're in both Nashville and Atlanta, sooner or later Publix would fill in the bigger population spaces kind of between between the two cities.

As for vaccinations, there have been a number of studies on helath risks over the years, and from everything I've seen, the benefits far outweigh the risks. (and even the risks people claim may not really be risks if you look at the large sample size studies)

[Donna]

My mother lives in DeFuniak Springs and is part of a very active and healthy group of women, most of them in their late 80s. One of their bridge ladies was active until the age of 102, when she passed away. None of their little group has had any kind of cancer or heart disease, and none have had hysterectomies or even so much as a gall bladder removal. They eat fried chicken, fried cornbread, and coconut cake all the time and get hardly any exercise except for gardening. A few years ago, I considered the common denominators. None of the ladies took birth control pills or hormone replacement therapy and they had a pretty simple life in that little town, so probably minimal stress over the years. They also go to church a lot!

[Bob]

What I would give for a Publix in the Nooga...that's another one of the things we love about the beach...you have a Publix down there!

The greatest shame in this world,at least as big as not having a local Publix, is not being able to purchase their stock. Employees only I believe. Publix gets my vote for the best run company I've ever seen. Started in Central Fl., and became famous for their consistency, clean stores and white/green terrazzo floors. Every year they have a giant corporate meeting/drinkfest at Disney for their 1500-2000 managers and I would venture to say most of 40/50 something bosses are very well from stock purchases.

[Paula]

My mother lives in DeFuniak Springs and is part of a very active and healthy group of women, most of them in their late 80s. One of their bridge ladies was active until the age of 102, when she passed away. None of their little group has had any kind of cancer or heart disease, and none have had hysterectomies or even so much as a gall bladder removal. They eat fried chicken, fried cornbread, and coconut cake all the time and get hardly any exercise except for gardening. A few years ago, I considered the common denominators. None of the ladies took birth control pills or hormone replacement therapy and they had a pretty simple life in that little town, so probably minimal stress over the years. They also go to church a lot!

Yup, the things you mention do contribute to longevity. According to Thomas Perls MD who is in charge of the New England Centennarian studies, most of us are genetically programmed to live to about 85 if we take care of ourselves (of course, there are exceptions -- diseases and events we can't control -- but barring these, 85 is a reasonable goal). The centennarians tend to share certain characteristics: they eat well and they typically eat fewer calories (although there's some new research that suggests that people who are slightly overweight but not obese tend to bounce back from illness better than people who are thin); they stay physically active; they have supportive relationships; they cope with stress very well (they don't necessarily have fewer stressful life events than others -- many centennarians have lived long enough to experience some terrible life events, but they cope with them better -- they face their problems, grieve, forgive others, make adjustments, move on and don't dwell on the past and they have ways of making sense of life's events that make them feel better rather than worse); they stay intellectually engaged; they go to the doctor regulary and take care of their health (they do tend to get vaccinations and they floss their teeth -- apparently good flossing is one way of preventing heart disease - strange but true); and they are optimistic about life and aging.

As for faith, I don't know if the studies suggest it contributes to longevity (I don't think this was found in the centennarian studies), but the research on happiness consistently shows that faith contributes to happiness -- although the researchers can't pinpoint why (it may have to do with faith giving people a way to make sense out of life in a way that is supportive and calming). Another interesting finding of the happiness research is that people who "satisfice" (don't always look for the "best" decision but rather are satisfied with the decisions they make -- interesting insight for SoWal given all the speculation about housing, housing values, property, etc.) are happier than people who "maximize" (always look for the best decision, but that's a set up for unhappiness because there's always going to be a "better" choice no matter what you choose). As for money, once you're over the poverty level, it doesn't predict happiness. If you don't have money to feed your family, get health care, etc., of course money would make you happier.

Interesting stuff...

[Paula]

I meant to say that "elderly" people who are slightly overweight tend to bounce back from health problems better than "elderly" people who are thin. It's a new study so there will no doubt be more studies looking into this since it counters what we've been taught about health lately.

[GraytonBound]

omg, you have described my 92yo g'mother to a T !!


never had cancer or heart disease, hardly any surgeries, spent her life eating fried chicken, cornbread, & cake. Still gardens. Refused hormone replacement therapy. Lived a very simple life in a simple town. Goes to church a lot.

Eats well, slightly overweight, copes with life extremely well despite the death of her son & husband, always optimistic, works crossword puzzles, and flosses....always flosses.

Maybe we're on to something here. Unfortunately I'm an extreme maximizer.

[Joe]

Interesting Article regarding cancer from Potato Chips:

"The World Health Organization has said acrylamide may be responsible for up to one-third of all cancers caused by diet, as demonstrated by laboratory animal studies."

http://www.news10.net/storyfull.asp?id=11508

[GraytonBound]

Figures...we get Kettle Chips at our organic market


It's hard to know what to eat anymore. Just stick to nothing but fruits & veggies I guess, but my kids will starve


Thanks for the link, Joe

[seagrovelover]

I'm getting in on this late, just talking about this today.....my grandmother lived to be 98 eating butter, sugar, red meat..... you just never know

[RiverOtter]

I'm getting in on this late, just talking about this today.....my grandmother lived to be 98 eating butter, sugar, red meat..... you just never know

I think it's all in the genes. Heard a Doctor say that we all have cancer in us. But our imune system fights it off. Her point was to make your imune system a strong as possible

[Paula]

Yup, the things you mention do contribute to longevity. According to Thomas Perls MD who is in charge of the New England Centennarian studies, most of us are genetically programmed to live to about 85 if we take care of ourselves (of course, there are exceptions -- diseases and events we can't control -- but barring these, 85 is a reasonable goal). The centennarians tend to share certain characteristics: they eat well and they typically eat fewer calories (although there's some new research that suggests that people who are slightly overweight but not obese tend to bounce back from illness better than people who are thin); they stay physically active; they have supportive relationships; they cope with stress very well (they don't necessarily have fewer stressful life events than others -- many centennarians have lived long enough to experience some terrible life events, but they cope with them better -- they face their problems, grieve, forgive others, make adjustments, move on and don't dwell on the past and they have ways of making sense of life's events that make them feel better rather than worse); they stay intellectually engaged; they go to the doctor regulary and take care of their health (they do tend to get vaccinations and they floss their teeth -- apparently good flossing is one way of preventing heart disease - strange but true); and they are optimistic about life and aging.

As for faith, I don't know if the studies suggest it contributes to longevity (I don't think this was found in the centennarian studies), but the research on happiness consistently shows that faith contributes to happiness -- although the researchers can't pinpoint why (it may have to do with faith giving people a way to make sense out of life in a way that is supportive and calming). Another interesting finding of the happiness research is that people who "satisfice" (don't always look for the "best" decision but rather are satisfied with the decisions they make -- interesting insight for SoWal given all the speculation about housing, housing values, property, etc.) are happier than people who "maximize" (always look for the best decision, but that's a set up for unhappiness because there's always going to be a "better" choice no matter what you choose). As for money, once you're over the poverty level, it doesn't predict happiness. If you don't have money to feed your family, get health care, etc., of course money would make you happier.

Interesting stuff...

I thought I'd start a new thread on this since it was under the "cancer and environment" thread and I thought it deserved some attention of its own. There's an excellent review of the recent studies on longevity in today's (June 20) Wall Street Journal personal section (it's worth reading). Much of the article focuses on stress and coping since that seems to be one of the most important predictors of longevity. Other highlights from the article:

1. "Genetics likely plays some part in the ability to reach an extreme old age...but genetics can only take you so far. Studies of Swedish twins who were raised apart showed that only about 30% of aging can be explained by genetics...'One of the myths of aging is to choose your parents wisely'...since only aout 1/3 of aging is heritable, the reste is acquired -- that mean you are responsible for your own old age."

2. "Increasingly, researchers are viewing stress -- how much stress we face in a lifetime, and how well we cope with it -- as one of the most significant factors for predicting how well we age." The explain why in the article.

3. "Marriage in particular protects men from the perils of aging. (Among women it doesn't seem to matter whether they are married or not, as lon gas thhey have other close relationships." (Why? No explanation given in the article.)

4. 63% of 80 - 102 year old men are still having sex; 30% of 80 - 102 year old women are still having sex." (Why? No explanation given in the article.)

5. "Successful agers typically feel in cobtrol of their day-to-day lives, but they don't fret about issues they can't control."

6. Work can make you sick if you don't have a feeling of control over your work and your time at work. "So, while work stress is inevitable, it's less harmful if you can control various aspects of your day -- such as when you take alunch break or the type of projects you want to work on."

7. "Personality traits such as optimism, adaptability and a willingness to try new things also seem to be linked to better aging." They then discuss the nun study that you can find at www.nunstudy.com. The researchers studied a community of nuns to identify which were most prone to Alzheimer's diseas and other brain disease. "Among many notable findings has been a sudy of handwritten autobiographies from 180 nuns, who wrote them, on average at the age of 22. The writings were scored for emotional content and compared with survival rats from the age of 75 - 95. What researchrs noticed is that the nuns who wrote with the most positive attitude at a very young age were 2.5 times more likely to be alive in late life than the sisters who came across with a more negative point of view at a young age...Cosnistently, the nuns who age well are those with distinct personality traits such as a sense of humor and adaptability. Many of these nuns still developed illnesses and health problems associated with aging, but those who aged the most successfully were those who adapted to each new challenge, including illness or disability" I read the book about the nun study "Aging with Grace" by the researcher David Snowden. It is an excellent book. They also found that the nuns who has more positive emotions, as well as wrote with more complexity, in their autobiographies had a lower incidence of Alzheimer's, even if their brains showed the same physical damage as other nuns who had Alzheimer's. Snowden describes in one chapter how he has changed his health/life habits after participating in the study.

So, it would be interesting to consider how SoWal affects our aging. Worrying too much about a market bubble or the conditions of the beach probably isn't best for our health. Whether or not a new road should be put in should probably be considered in part in terms of whether it increases or decreases stress.

[Paula]

Please help, Kurt. I wanted to make this post a new thread but it's still under Cancer and the Environment. Can you tell me how to move it to a new thread? I think it would be an interesting discussion.

Thanks!

[Cil]

Being cancer-free is genetics, environment, mind/body self-care, and a wee bit of luck.

My dad died at 50 of colon cancer which had spread everywhere. He had a very stressful job and smoked and drank quite a bit. Mom died 14 years later, a heart attack, basically she had a broken heart, a terrible diet and smoked and drank. Other than my maternal grandfather, who died young of cancer, the rest of my grandparents lived to a great age, none of them heavy, two of them quite thin. Needless to say, my brothers and I try to live moderately, we've had colonoscopies, but we're not ascetic purists either.

The vaccination controversy is tricky. At age 50, I am old enough to remember seeing young people who did not receive the polio vaccine--and had a permanent limp to prove it. Vaccines have prevented untold agonies for many, many people. So have antibiotics, but I agree that both should be used conservatively.

Multiple sclerosis is quite prevalent here in Colorado (because of our sunshine, we also have skin cancer and cataract issues similar to Australia). They think the high incidence of MS might be related to the altitude but don't really know.

I try to educate myself and also use my best judgment.
I agree with the notion of control and how it affects a person's psyche; I tend to fret about just about anything (including when I'll move to Florida) and it is good that I married a mellow guy. I think keeping your mind and body active as possible is a good thing. My dad's mom was still doing crossword puzzles and swimming in the Gulf at age 80.

Chocolate helps too. :)

[kurt]

Paula - select the text, copy, and from the lounge forum click "new thread" button, then paste in new message box.

[Paula]

Thanks much.

[katie blue]

What's wacky is that both my husband and I developed skin cancer in the exact same spot on our face, within a month of each other, this year. Maybe there *are* environmental factors at play. We both eat fairly healthy, but we do love our (acrylimide-loaded) french fries from time to time, and we bought our beach house in 2003, and maybe didn't use enough sunscreen... Strange that we both got it together. My husbands only 39! (i'm somewhere near that, but not tellin.)

Luckily we caught it early enough for it to be completely benign, but what a scare. Very interesting concept that the cancer's already there, and it's your immunity response that prevents it from growing. I can see diet playing a part with that angle.

kate