corruption/conflict of interest

[mf]

is there anyone else out there shocked by the lack of ethics in local government here? (22 developments of regional interest and NO enforcement of affordable housing?)
anybody else wondering why developers seem to be monarchs of mini-fifedoms with special dispensation while community and infrastructure issues fall by the wayside?
anybody else think being part of a "rich community" means that all people have a decent quality of life and there is proper law enforcement and medical care.
i mean, sorry, but when you pay landscapers more than you pay nurses and those "employees" are no more than indentured slaves, how can we honestly say we are doing the best by our community?

i'm pretty darn sure i'm not alone.
anybody up for starting a forum on this board specifically to address issues like this scattered throughout the board?

we're growing fast and can't count on those with selfish business interests to police our government and development.

[Smiling JOe]

I didn't think DRI's were required to build affordable housing. I know WaterSound north was heavily "urged" to include them, but my understanding is that they are not required. However, you bring up good points. I said it yesterday with regards to developments putting in commercial spaces, which will require staffing -- AND OUR UNEMPLOYMENT IS THE LOWEST IN THE STATE !!! Short term mentality is the reason. Sure, you can say that lack of money is the reason, but that is merely the excuse to the real answer. It is almost as @ssbackwards as building a house without any toilets in the bathrooms.

[Uncle Timmy]

i'm pretty darn sure i'm not alone.
anybody up for starting a forum on this board specifically to address issues like this scattered throughout the board?

we're growing fast and can't count on those with selfish business interests to police our government and development.

I think you will find a lot of interest in these topics and can probably muster enthusiasm for a forum to address them.

As you say, these issues are already being talked about widely on this board but what seems to be lacking is a move from talk to action.

I would participate.

[mf]

<<[quote=Smiling JOe;175151]I didn't think DRI's were required to build affordable housing. I know WaterSound north was heavily "urged" to include them, but my understanding is that they are not required. >>

it's a state law that is regularly ignored and unenforced by local and county officials. a community with an eye toward development and compassionate outlook would insist our government demand more of those exploit its natural resources.

developers cannot and will not be interested in the long-term outlook of a community. they build, take the money and get out. i don't expect anymore of them. that's their job. furthermore, local representation is not properly divided between the north and south of the county. it's difficult to tell who is looking out for our interests in south walton and where the tax dollars are going.

for those of us left here after developers have moved on, economic development will come to a screeching halt if issues of wages and affordable living aren't addressed. these million dollar houses will cease to be million dollar houses because job opportunities and the level of services cannot be sustained in this environment.

we can't expect developers to have any vision other than making a buck, but i'm a little surprised that residents aren't more concerned. this apathy will affect our quality of life and property values. i think there's a comfort level in this "big daddy" mentality.

also, can we talk about conflicts of interest here? it's a serious problem here. there's no system of checks and balances.

[mf]

I think you will find a lot of interest in these topics and can probably muster enthusiasm for a forum to address them.

As you say, these issues are already being talked about widely on this board but what seems to be lacking is a move from talk to action.

I would participate.

i think if we use a forum on the boards to accumulate a critical mass, we can begin to engage in local and county government on an activist level. i can see from the environment board, there is certainly a need for that on those issues.

from the boards we can go from virtual to a real life action committee. i think this area is full of amazing people, we just need to come together and form a community that looks out for our best interests.

[mf]

I said it yesterday with regards to developments putting in commercial spaces, which will require staffing -- AND OUR UNEMPLOYMENT IS THE LOWEST IN THE STATE !!! >>>>>


you're so right. this is a HUGE issue.

developers have an "if we build it they will come" mentality. they have no stake in its impact on a community. even if they do get the employees, how does that impact housing? transportation?

did anyone go to the TIPS (austin, tx based firm) strategy meeting at the Walton Chamber of Commerce and hear the discussion about how to draw talent to the area? very insightful and basically confirmed that we are in big trouble in terms of making this area desirable to a job force of any kind.

[kurt]

There are several groups you might want to check out listed on http://www.sowal.com/groups.html

[mf]

There are several groups you might want to check out listed on http://www.sowal.com/groups.html

thanks for pointing me there. those groups look very interesting. i stlil think it would be great to have a group with a more government/economic development bent. i did see a good group regarding the impact of development on the environment, but no community group with a focus on local government or other infrastructure issues such as economic development, education, health or transport?

you seem to be the forum moderator. would you be open to that?

[hi n dry]

Below is an email I just received from a group you maybe interested in.

BMBCA Members,
"The BMBCA has been concerned for some time about ethics in Walton County government. We’ve written about this a number of times including in the 1/2/06 and 8/7/06 Board Reports and we have brought this issue to some of our commissioners. After Commissioner Brannon was found guilty on 8/26/06 of two counts in an elections investigation by the Florida Elections Commission we talked to Commissioner Jones about why the BCC did not take action to send the signal that this type of behavior would not be tolerated in this county. His response was to ask what good would it do. We said we felt staying quit on the matter sent the wrong signal to employees and to citizens of the county. What the BCC did instead was to elect Brannon chairman of the BCC despite the fact that he was under investigation at the time. He was later fined $2,000 and some of his supporters were fined $15,000. We wonder what kind of message electing him to the position of chairman while he was under investigation sent to the community?

Next Commissioner Ro Cuchens voted, as a BCC member, on issues that he later benefited from as a private contractor. However on 10/10/06 the Florida Ethics Commission found there was no conflict between his votes and how he benefited. Cuchens was using the dark red sand in the construction of the Blue Mountain Beach sea walls. As a commissioner was his allegiance to build walls that were as inexpensive as possible (dark sand is cheaper than white sand) or to protect our special white sandy beaches? This importation of red sand was finally stopped by the Walton County Planning Department. In addition it appears some of the seawalls he built in the county were constructed too far from the homes they were meant to protect, well out onto county property, as much as 40 feet onto our property in some cases. It is still not clear what the county is going to do about this issue.

Recently it has come to light that Commissioner Cuchens had submitted two letters to DEP, written on BCC stationery, saying a wooden seawall built in the eastern part of the county without proper permits was in fact not in violation of county codes. This was not true and he had no authority to write those letters. The county has written a letter to DEP, which in essence rescinds Commissioner Cuchens’ letters. In the event you missed these stories or that you live out of the county, recent newspapers articles from the Beach Breeze and the Walton Sun are attached. Be sure to open the attachments in order to read both articles in their entirety. Just looking at what is shown below will not provide you with complete stories.

It has not yet been proven who built this latest seawall, which could be as much as 220 feet long, but it is a wooden seawall of the type Commissioner Cuchens builds. Whether he built the wall or not he had no authority to write the two letters defending the wall. As one commissioner said, “What was he thinking?” All the seawalls that the county issued permits for were issued under an emergency permit in order to allow beachfront property owners to protect their homes during last years hurricane season. The county was only authorized to issue these permits for a specific period of time.

The DEP notified county attorney David Hallman about the letters and according to a Walton County commissioner Hallman failed to notify the other commissioners what Cuchens had done. Hallman has since submitted his resignation but it is not clear why he has resigned. According to the Beach Breeze, engineer Terry Anderson says he was hired post-construction when the property owner enlisted him to apply for the after-the-fact permit. Of course that raises the issue as to who was the engineer in the building of the wall. Anderson has worked with Cuchens on some of his other seawalls.

In May 2006 code enforcement officers cited the owner of a deck that had been built on Eastern Lake behind the Old Florida Fish House & Bar. This has just recently come to light. We are told Cuchens’ Choctawhatchee Bay Piling and Dock Company built the deck. According to county records the deck violated a number of laws. It violates the shoreline protect zone, there was no building permit issued for the structure and construction of the deck was an expansion of a none conforming use, something that is not allowed. It appears that if Cuchens did build this deck he violated the law he was charged to uphold.

After these latest apparent lapses of ethics on the part of Commissioner Cuchens we urged Commissioner Pridgen to step up and call for some kind of action, either in the form of starting an investigation or in directing Walton County Administrator Ronnie Bell to address the public / press as to what is going on and where the county stands on ethics and this type of behavior on the part of any elected official or county employee. It just seems silence on the part of the county is not the course they should be taking. He listened to us but was non-committal. What does this county think about the importance of high ethical standards?

Cuchens did not run for reelection this year. We are told Commissioner Cuchens last BCC meeting will be next Tuesday 11/14/06. We would like to think this would end ethics issues in the county but who knows for sure. We believe high ethical standards are important to our members and we urge you to express any concerns you may have to our commissioners and to county administrator Ronnie Bell.

bmbca@mindspring.com
Blue Mountain Beach Community Association"

BMBCA: “Dedicated to the preservation of our residential community - its natural beauty and its quality of life – through education, communication, and cooperation”

[kurt]

thanks for pointing me there. those groups look very interesting. i stlil think it would be great to have a group with a more government/economic development bent. i did see a good group regarding the impact of development on the environment, but no community group with a focus on local government or other infrastructure issues such as economic development, education, health or transport?

you seem to be the forum moderator. would you be open to that?

I've added forums as they've been needed depending on the content of posts.

The SWCC is a group like you describe.

[hi n dry]

I've added forums as they've been needed depending on the content of posts.

The SWCC is a group like you describe.

http://www.southwaltoncc.org/mc/page.do

"To preserve, protect and enhance the quality of life and
the natural environment of South Walton County."

"Dedicated To Preserving And Protecting Your Community"


*
*

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

hi mf,

The problem I see is that just a few people are passionate about politics down here.

But take the following...

Turtles, retaining walls, dark sand, etc. stir up emotions in environmentalists to the degree that many things get distorted and sensationalized. But it makes for interesting reading, none the less. Kurt created the Environmental section when everybody and their brother jumped in on the topics.

Most of the political interest (then and now) had to do with Ro Cuchens, our ex-commissioner , simply because he was involved with a significant percentage (30-40%???) of the retaining wall projects and not because he voted for or against some legislation that had nothing to do with the beach. Much of the political interest is generated by environmental issues. The leaders in SWCC and BMBCA are very environmentally oriented....sometimes too much so, IMHO.

Point is that we don't have that kind of pure political enthusiasm down here as many owners are out-of-towners with a primary life away from Walton County. They bring the money down but then go back home after they've played in the water for a few weeks.

But to your credit, I have been thinking the same thing as you. That is when political items of interest come up, there is no good section on this board for the posts to go. They basically get mixed in. Who knows... maybe this is not so bad as more people may read them who otherwise would not.

I believe our saving grace down here is that many people that are retiring in the area have been relatively successful in their "previous life". Hopefully rather than just sitting on their hands and just growing old while drinking margaritas on the beach (...wait, that sounds pretty good!), they use their skills and experience to better our area by becoming proactive.

Kurt, maybe you should reconsider mf's request. I can appreciate your probable desire to minimize the number of subjects for various reasons however.

[Jennifer Steele]

I also like the idea of a political forum, but I can understand if Kurt is leery to provide that since it doesn't take much to evoke emotion from most of the folks on this board (and I don't intend that to be mean). We do need a focused forum where politically concerned people could at the very least share information about meetings, etc.

[ShallowsNole]

Another group that you might be interested in is the Walton County Taxpayers Association, http://www.waltontaxpayers.org. They do a VERY good job of scrutinizing where our tax dollars go and are not afraid to call a spade a spade.

[hi n dry]

Whether you like it or not, politics is a necessary evil in a democracy.

Either you do politics or it does you.

Of course a separate forum on Politics is needed.

[mf]

Whether you like it or not, politics is a necessary evil in a democracy.

Either you do politics or it does you.

Of course a separate forum on Politics is needed.

Whether you like it or not, politics is a necessary evil in a democracy.

Either you do politics or it does you.

Of course a separate forum on Politics is needed.

Whether you like it or not, politics is a necessary evil in a democracy.

Either you do politics or it does you.

Of course a separate forum on Politics is needed.

well, i tend to agree with you hi and dry :)

i admit, it's hard for me to understand worry about getting emotional about local government, as i hope that people are passionate about their community and the people in it.

while i'm not political in the traditional sense - i'm neither a democrat nor a republican. i believe that it's our responsibility to participate in democracy instead of just observe. that's what i enjoy about living in america :)

like most of you, i'm mostly concerned with being a good neighbor and a responsible community member. that means ensuring that our government is accountable.

when government officials and businesses aren't accountable it's the most vulnerable who often suffer as well as the legacy most of us hope to leave our families.

vagrant, i'm actually one of those folks who retired (albeit 20 yrs early!) from a wonderful career in nyc to come back home to be closer to family. like many people who are relocating here, as you suggested, i am a proactive person, but a little stymied i guess which is why i was asking about a forum.

vagrant, thanks for asking kurt to reconsider a community-based forum especially for these issues that affect us. i'm inspired to see all the interest from this board. there are lots of smart people here and frankly i would like to hear their opinions on local matter and learn more history about what's happened.

the information on ro cuchens was VERY interesting. i happen to believe that corrupt people in power are like cockroaches, for every one you might see out in the open, there are 100 more in the shadows.

here are some recent community/government issues that would have been wonderful to have a forum to communication information and opinions:

1) information on local candidates in recent elections
2) 331 expansion
3) tornado shelters
4) fortress takeover of intrawest
5) annual crime statistics

off to check out waltontaxpayers :) thanks shallownole!

i do hope we can continue the discourse initiated here about education, transportation, health care, senior issues and infrastructure.
but as a newcomer, i don't want to be too pushy, so i'll investigate another community alternative if there's no potential for a forum here.

** shopping is not a community building activity **
xo, mf

[mf]

p.s. if this is simply not an appropriate website for such a forum. i'd be happy to build one myself, it will only take an afternoon to get it up and running. i already have several domains sitting around i can use. i certainly don't want to upset the apple cart here :)

[mf]

on a lighter note, smiling joe, i can see why you're smiling by your profile picture hehehe

[chrisv]

but no community group with a focus on local government or other infrastructure issues such as economic development, education, health or transport?

Walton County Economic Development Council
(website renovated and still under construction)

[Jennifer Steele]

well, i tend to agree with you hi and dry :)

i admit, it's hard for me to understand worry about getting emotional about local government, as i hope that people are passionate about their community and the people in it.

while i'm not political in the traditional sense - i'm neither a democrat nor a republican. i believe that it's our responsibility to participate in democracy instead of just observe. that's what i enjoy about living in america :)

like most of you, i'm mostly concerned with being a good neighbor and a responsible community member. that means ensuring that our government is accountable.

when government officials and businesses aren't accountable it's the most vulnerable who often suffer as well as the legacy most of us hope to leave our families.

vagrant, i'm actually one of those folks who retired (albeit 20 yrs early!) from a wonderful career in nyc to come back home to be closer to family. like many people who are relocating here, as you suggested, i am a proactive person, but a little stymied i guess which is why i was asking about a forum.

vagrant, thanks for asking kurt to reconsider a community-based forum especially for these issues that affect us. i'm inspired to see all the interest from this board. there are lots of smart people here and frankly i would like to hear their opinions on local matter and learn more history about what's happened.

the information on ro cuchens was VERY interesting. i happen to believe that corrupt people in power are like cockroaches, for every one you might see out in the open, there are 100 more in the shadows.

here are some recent community/government issues that would have been wonderful to have a forum to communication information and opinions:

1) information on local candidates in recent elections
2) 331 expansion
3) tornado shelters
4) fortress takeover of intrawest
5) annual crime statistics

off to check out waltontaxpayers :) thanks shallownole!

i do hope we can continue the discourse initiated here about education, transportation, health care, senior issues and infrastructure.
but as a newcomer, i don't want to be too pushy, so i'll investigate another community alternative if there's no potential for a forum here.

** shopping is not a community building activity **
xo, mf

I'm not personally worried about getting emotional about local government and politics. I have noticed moderation on some threads when they get too heated, and I was guessing that's why a political forum had not been started (could be wrong). I am passionate about my own political beliefs and would like to be better educated and involved in local politics. I was trying to agree with you by saying I would appreciate a political forum.

[mf]

I'm not personally worried about getting emotional about local government and politics. I have noticed moderation on some threads when they get too heated, and I was guessing that's why a political forum had not been started (could be wrong). I am passionate about my own political beliefs and would like to be better educated and involved in local politics. I was trying to agree with you by saying I would appreciate a political forum.

oh! i know! thank you! :) i'm sorry! i hope you didn't misunderstand!

i was saying i hope that a decision wasn't made against it simply because of "emotions"!

[GoodWitch58]

mf, were you here when we rallied to get the traffic signals? We have done some good things (many of the people on the board here participated)--there is still much to be done, and IMO the Economic Development effort here in Walton Co is a joke.

I have some experience in this field and know so many opportunities are just simply not explored....

A thorough investigation of local government would most likely reveal a lot.....

[kurt]

I don't discourage discussion of anything here, but rather encourage it, as long as it's done with decency and respect. So far, some political issues have been covered pretty well here and I am proud of that.

I am a little wary of a political forum because I've seen them elsewhere degenerate into ugliness from left and right.

As long as decency and respect is maintained, perhaps the enviro forum can be modified to include political, social, and environmental issues - what do y'all think?

[Miss Kitty]

I don't discourage discussion of anything here, but rather encourage it, as long as it's done with decency and respect. So far, some political issues have been covered pretty well here and I am proud of that.

I am a little wary of a political forum because I've seen them elsewhere degenerate into ugliness from left and right.

As long as decency and respect is maintained, perhaps the enviro forum can be modified to include political, social, and environmental issues - what do y'all think?

I know some people (BMBV) don't think I can construct a complete sentence, but I agree with the above. Thank you and be well.

[Bob]

I know some people (BMBV) don't think I can construct a complete sentence, but I agree with the above. Thank you and be well.

Sueshore, don't worry about BMBV. He's going to get carpal tunnel syndrome when we discuss eminent domain actions versus retaining wall owners.

[Miss Kitty]

Sueshore, don't worry about BMBV. He's going to get carpal tunnel syndrome when we discuss eminent domain actions versus retaining wall owners.

I heart you, Bob!

[DD]

Sueshore, don't worry about BMBV. He's going to get carpal tunnel syndrome when we discuss eminent domain actions versus retaining wall owners.

[mf]

mf, were you here when we rallied to get the traffic signals? We have done some good things (many of the people on the board here participated)--there is still much to be done, and IMO the Economic Development effort here in Walton Co is a joke.

I have some experience in this field and know so many opportunities are just simply not explored....

A thorough investigation of local government would most likely reveal a lot.....

like i said, i'm new here, which is part of why i wanted a forum to get a sense of history as well as current information.
i agree with your assessment of our economic development efforts.
there is currently only one person on staff which reflects a lack of commitment on the part of the county. i believe T.I.P.S. who were hired by the state to consult each county recommended a full department which i recall as being 3 people minimum - but don't count on my memory!- let's just say it wasn't ONE person.

kurt, if you think we should move this discussion to the environment forum, that's cool. but is there some way of indicating that we're hijacking the forum so the kindhearted environmentalist souls don't have a heart attack?

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

I know some people (BMBV) don't think I can construct a complete sentence, but I agree with the above. Thank you and be well.

Dear Sueshore,
Your posting methods may actually be more effective than mine. When E.F. Hutton.... I mean, Sueshore (finally) speaks, people listen. Oh yea, I saw where you ladies were dissn' me in the lounge - talking behind my back and all....actually made me smile!

Look, we probably have more in common than not. We both spend too much time on Kurt's computer. We both love South Walton. We both dislike dishonest politicians.

But we do seem to differ in one respect, as Bob pointed out: my fingers probably do hurt more than yours lately.

Peace.

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

I don't discourage discussion of anything here, but rather encourage it, as long as it's done with decency and respect. So far, some political issues have been covered pretty well here and I am proud of that.

I am a little wary of a political forum because I've seen them elsewhere degenerate into ugliness from left and right.

As long as decency and respect is maintained, perhaps the enviro forum can be modified to include political, social, and environmental issues - what do y'all think?

It's your ball. We just get to play with it.

During the height of the retaining wall stuff, it did give me a chance to ponder my inner soul when I wasn't posting in defense of my position and dodging all the knives being thrown at me. I don't know how many nay-sayers were enlightened by all the discussion, but I feel some, at least, understood the total picture better than if nobody challenged the status-quo.

If anything, I distinctly remember one member here that actually complimented me on my research efforts (regarding retaining walls) and for the fact we properly installed ours. And that was all I was really trying to get across. Others finally admitted they would have probably done the same thing in my situation.

Some activists, in their over-zealousness, tend to lump similar but different things in the same group. It's easier to see things as the same than trying to disect...basically the ecological equivalent of stereotyping.

Was the above worth all the confrontation and many hours / days / weeks worth of messaging? Probably not. The outcome of our wall will not change based on perceptions on this board alone.

Let me make one thing very clear..."wrong doing" does not always exist just in the political arena. Misguided activists can do just as much harm.

But this thread is about corruption and politics. And that's where mf is coming from.

As far as I can see, there's nothing stopping anyone from posting local political stuff in either forum. They'll get read either way for the most part. The real question is, "Do they have an impact?".

[John R]

I believe a political forum will be generated when there's enough traffic to support it. Kurt's savvy enough to know when, since he will be the one that has to migrate all the floating posts into the new category.

On a another board I'm on, the political forum is a child forum under the "Open Forum", the equivilent of 'The Lounge'. You could guess what a trainwreck that could end up being here. The irony would be too awesome if the political board became a child board under environmental.

I agree with what's been said so far as to the general apathy of the populace. If a political board could help effect a change, then I'm all for it. But, everyone would need to behave themselves.

Guidlines form the other board:

CIVILITY
This is a discussion panel, and not the end of the world.
Make and support your points, and don't diss the debater, but attack or support the subject, not the person.
Make sure that you can back your points, because these guys are sharp!

[Smiling JOe]

Good post John R. I think I would have to refrain from posting in the political forum because I can get pretty heated when it comes to that. Coming from a family, both immediate and distant, which is/was directly involved in politics, it tends to get a little personal for me.

I think the potentially harmful thing which could come from having a political forum is that most of us are not seeing the entire picture and I think that it may be a little slanted. However, if there could be a few strong knowledgable souls to give balance, it could be a really good forum. Though it would never happen, I would like to be able to ask Commissioners questions on this forum and have them publicly respond. (I know, but can't a guy dream?)

If you really want a forum, start posting, and the forum will eventually come if the demand and civility are there. As so much of the politricks in this area are environmentally connected, you won't see much dissing from the environmentally aware peeps. If fact, they are the ones who will probably jump right in, because the infrastructure, or lack of, in this community directly affects the environment.

[ShallowsNole]

Dealing with local politics all day every day, and belonging to another list that deals with Walton County politics, I come here to get AWAY from politics.

mf, if you have the domain names & means to start and the time to manage such a forum, I'd say go for it. I certainly have no bearing on what Kurt would or would not do on these forums, but political forums can get extremely nasty.

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Dealing with local politics all day every day, and belonging to another list that deals with Walton County politics, I come here to get AWAY from politics.

mf, if you have the domain names & means to start and the time to manage such a forum, I'd say go for it. I certainly have no bearing on what Kurt would or would not do on these forums, but political forums can get extremely nasty.

At least they wouldn't be so one sided as the "seawall" issue.

[hi n dry]

I don't discourage discussion of anything here, but rather encourage it, as long as it's done with decency and respect. So far, some political issues have been covered pretty well here and I am proud of that.

I am a little wary of a political forum because I've seen them elsewhere degenerate into ugliness from left and right.

As long as decency and respect is maintained, perhaps the enviro forum can be modified to include political, social, and environmental issues - what do y'all think?

If you are really concerned about ”ugliness” and heated debate wouldn't it be best to have the controversial topic in one location so it is easier to manage?

Frankly I think the problems primarily are a reflection of the temperament of the poster and not the topic.

If one comes to sowal to escape from stress they can go to the lounge and skip the forums where many well meaning posters are really trying to communicate.

The nonsensical babble is more appropriate in the lounge and is often just annoying static in an otherwise sometimes serious and interesting dialogue in the forums.

[Bob]

If you are really concerned about ”ugliness” and heated debate wouldn't it be best to have the controversial topic in one location so it is easier to manage?

Frankly I think the problems primarily are a reflection of the temperament of the poster and not the topic.

If one comes to sowal to escape from stress they can go to the lounge and skip the forums where many well meaning posters are really trying to communicate.

The nonsensical babble is more appropriate in the lounge and is often just annoying static in an otherwise sometimes serious and interesting dialogue in the forums.

Challenging nonsensical ideas masquerading as serious debate is the most relevant dialouge that goes on here. Who will be the thought police to decide what is kosher? You???....me????? You've got Nancy Pelosi as your avatar! Me?? I voted for Bush. We're both out of it.

[Hans]

Well,....ah reckon, that the non-voters have the edge anyway, as they constitute the vast majority. What....with todays shenanigans, a voter's strike might not be such a bad idea after all.
November's just dandy to stay in that holler anyway...and keep the still running smoothly.