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Lake View Too

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2008
6,862
8,298
Eastern Lake
I am having a hard time dismissing this issue... it just occurred to me this morning that a roundabout of this size will completely devastate the grove of trees that inspired the naming of Seagrove... pause for a minute and let it sink in that we keep destroying the things that have made our community unique and beautiful... and, for what? to make it more comfortable for tourists to come down here?(Hint: if they can't wait for an extra ten minutes in traffic, then they can just go back to where they came from.)There just has to be a more moderate way to solve this problem, and other problems that face us because of unbridled growth. A middle beach road should have been planned many years ago, and I still think it needs to be done, rather than another devastating blow to the heart of Seagrove.
 

Zebraspots

Beach Fanatic
May 15, 2008
840
247
Santa Rosa Beach
Me too. We seem to be forgetting why people love it here.

I don't think a middle beach road is the solution either, as it doesn't make sense geographically.

IMO we should be making it easier to use 98 to move east and west when traveling longer distances on 30a and finding solutions (like a 30A shuttle) that reduce the number of cars on the road.
 

NotDeadYet

Beach Fanatic
Jul 7, 2007
1,422
489
I am having a hard time dismissing this issue... it just occurred to me this morning that a roundabout of this size will completely devastate the grove of trees that inspired the naming of Seagrove... pause for a minute and let it sink in that we keep destroying the things that have made our community unique and beautiful... and, for what? to make it more comfortable for tourists to come down here?(Hint: if they can't wait for an extra ten minutes in traffic, then they can just go back to where they came from.)There just has to be a more moderate way to solve this problem, and other problems that face us because of unbridled growth. A middle beach road should have been planned many years ago, and I still think it needs to be done, rather than another devastating blow to the heart of Seagrove.

I'm going to disagree. First, the trees (I assume you mean the ones on the northeast corner). Eventually someone will build on that lot and take out at least as many trees as are needed for the footprint.
If you want to talk about impacts to the things that make our community unique, you cannot ignore the fact that either a middle beach road or another connector to 98 will be a huge impact on the state forest. In my opinion it would open the door for the end of the state forest south of 98. If you think we have density and infrastructure issues now, give some thought to what that would look like.
Even with 'only' roads, wetlands that naturally clean water that eventually ends up in the gulf and many plant and animal species would be greatly disturbed.
And any road through the forest will not be cheap. There is no route that would not require numerous wetland crossings. You can get an idea about this from aerials, but if you can't pick out the wetlands that way, just talk to anyone who has extensively hiked or biked through those forest trails.
Overall I think more roads would be far more destructive.
 

Lake View Too

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2008
6,862
8,298
Eastern Lake
You have a good point. I guess I have a somewhat jaded attitude that the absolutely unique natural environment of Seagrove, with it's huge majestic live oaks and magnificent magnolias growing just steps away from the beautiful emerald waters of the Gulf of Mexico is of, at least, equal value than a stretch of pine trees and wetlands, just like a million miles of swampy forest throughout the south.I am an environmentalist and I understand your concern for not touching the state forests. I guess, at this point, I am saying, don't build anything more.

I scanned a little bit more of the roundabout guidelines from above and there is a emphasis on visibility and sightlines when building a roundabout. Between that, and the huge amount of utilities that will be rerouted through this construction sight, I just don't see anything of "seagrove" surviving. It will look a lot more like a parking lot than it will look like a park.

Yeah, I sound like an alarmist and a luddite. It just seems like a hell of a risk to take to make a bunch of tourists comfortable for two weeks out of the year.
 

justhavinfun

Beach Fanatic
Nov 13, 2008
373
140
Eastern Lake
I hope they are smart enough to route the bicycles north of the circle and not allow them access! Make a separate bike crossing north of the circle - Oh wait, that means a bike crossing before the circle!
 

miznotebook

Beach Fanatic
Jul 8, 2009
962
603
Stone's throw from Inlet Bch
I read the guidelines to building a roundabout from the link Kurt put up a couple posts back, and it contained exactly one paragraph on bicycle traffic. Here's the quote:

"4.14 BICYCLE AND PEDESTRIAN DESIGN CONSIDERATIONS
According to the Draft “Florida Bicycle Facilities Planning and Design Manual”, no special
markings or lanes are generally needed in the roundabout to accommodate the bicyclist. On
approaches which have bicycle lanes, the lane should end and permit a merge during the last 22 -
30 m of the approach. Although separate paths have been used in some high volume roundabouts,
that would be a special design feature."

I read this to mean that they want all bicycle traffic to merge with the vehicular traffic before entering the roundabout. I'm not sure this is even feasible, let alone, desirable.

This makes it sound like the merging process should not be too difficult: http://www.bicyclinginfo.org/faqs/answer.cfm?id=3454
 

Lake View Too

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2008
6,862
8,298
Eastern Lake
I don't think it does. My feeling is that probably 90% of the people who use the bikepath are not acquainted with, nor comfortable with, merging into vehicular traffic. And they will hardly be prepared to use the rules of the road that vehicular traffic follows. A great number of these holiday bicyclers are children, who have never heard of the rules of the road.
 

NotDeadYet

Beach Fanatic
Jul 7, 2007
1,422
489
Lake View Too, I agree with you about the unique natural environment of Seagrove. I hate when it is diminished. Since most of it is private property, I think the best we can do is continue to put pressure on the county to enforce preservation requirements and density limitations, and encourage property owners to conserve and to restore whenever possible. Education could help here.
But the thing about the Pt Washington State Forest is that it is not just like a million miles of swampy southern forest. It's part of only 3% of the original long leaf pine forests still remaining, and forestry is doing all they can to restore it. Check this out:
http://www.nature.org/ourinitiative...a/unitedstates/florida/howwework/longleaf.xml
 

Lake View Too

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2008
6,862
8,298
Eastern Lake
That was educational to me. Thanks. I've been very partial to scrub oaks, all my life, and need to branch out (get it?;-)) and appreciate the pines, as well.
 
I am having a hard time dismissing this issue... it just occurred to me this morning that a roundabout of this size will completely devastate the grove of trees that inspired the naming of Seagrove... pause for a minute and let it sink in that we keep destroying the things that have made our community unique and beautiful... and, for what? to make it more comfortable for tourists to come down here?(Hint: if they can't wait for an extra ten minutes in traffic, then they can just go back to where they came from.)There just has to be a more moderate way to solve this problem, and other problems that face us because of unbridled growth. A middle beach road should have been planned many years ago, and I still think it needs to be done, rather than another devastating blow to the heart of Seagrove.
True. The groves have disappeared drastically since we built 10 years ago. So many people clear out the groves of live oaks and bring in palm trees that aren't native to the area.

Much of the year you could bowl on 30A due to so little traffic. I'm with Zebraspot -- can't the county give shuttles a try in the high season before the beautiful grove at the 30A/395 intersection is bulldozed?
 
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