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woodworker

Beach Lover
Jan 26, 2008
156
32
SRB
Yes.

Send your kid to school with a gun and have him talk and pray during class. He will be sent home for disrupting class. You can then file suit. Eventually, after two or three judgements you might make it to the supreme court who will rule that by requiring your child to leave his firearm at home and not talk during class, the teacher and school did not infinge about his constitutional rights.

Anyone else have a different opinion?


I believe you just sidestepped what I was asking you. I was referring to the area in bold, not the gun part.

I think a "vast majority" of parents don't give their children guns to take to school with them, and most kids talk during class at some point.

What if twenty kids are talking during class, all at the same time, but one is praying - are we to send home the one that was praying?

Your case is really falling apart here - I think you'll be fighting with yourself before long. You and your "two buddies", that is.:lol:
 

Geo

Beach Fanatic
Dec 24, 2006
2,750
2,782
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
I believe you just sidestepped what I was asking you. I was referring to the area in bold, not the gun part.

I think a "vast majority" of parents don't give their children guns to take to school with them, and most kids talk during class at some point.

What if twenty kids are talking during class, all at the same time, but one is praying - are we to send home the one that was praying?

Your case is really falling apart here - I think you'll be fighting with yourself before long. You and your "two buddies", that is.:lol:

My case is falling apart?
Maybe *you* might think so. I am very comfortable with the argument I am making. If I wasn't I would have said so and would have changed my mind...

I didn't sidestep you, Woodworker. It wasn't clear to me what you were asking.

Do you not see that the gun part was put in there to not only make but exaggerate the following counterpoint to the folks citing the Constitution-

Just because the right to do something is mentioned in a constitutional amendment doesn't mean it makes sense for/that kids have the right to do that something in school.

But just this once as a courtesy to you I'll go ahead and take it out. It doesn't change my point or its strength so here you go-

The Constutution and its amendments (freedom of speech, freedom of religion) do not give kids the right to talk or pray at/during school.

Cheers, Geo

P.S. You would be well served to not make a habit of removing important portions of people's posts and then challenging them on what's left. Many of us choose our words carefully. :D
 
Last edited:

Matt J

SWGB
May 9, 2007
24,646
9,496
I think there is a place, especially in university for education related to religion, especially religious history. I took courses at FSU on religious history and found them to be quite educational.

I don't have any problem with teaching religious history or even the different religions of the world in school. As long as it is a full and complete curriculum. The problem is that in this area it would most likely be centered on Christian teachings and beliefs and perhaps a one day crash course in everything else. When I was in high school we had a religious studies course that was to include all of the religions of the world and the above is exactly what happened. When I complained I was told that I should be a good christian and focus on that. When I explained that I was not a christian, rather a Unitarian Universalist, I was looked at with a blank stare and labeled a "complainer". We then studied "everybody else" on the last day. In this "fair and balanced" situation we were told that each religion was to be studied based on it's over all presence in the world. According to the math used in this presentation 99% of the world is christian and the remaining is made up of Hindu, Islamic, Jewish, and (I'm not kidding) "Others".

Based on the graph below I think we were being mislead.

Worldwide_percentage_of_Adherents_by_Religion.png
 

woodworker

Beach Lover
Jan 26, 2008
156
32
SRB
Geo -

Before you kick me in the head about that last remark (probably already have, seeing as I type too slow), let me tell you a story......


There's a nice quiet town in the south that borders the Gulf of Mexico. Most of the residents kind of keep to themselves; they're from different walks of life, a little spread out, and don't really want to infringe on the original folks that have lived there awhile. North of this town, there's a lot of folks that used to live by the water, but they're not that enamored with it anymore (you'll understand that some day), and besides- it got expensive. So they moved north a ways in search of a more close-knit, family oriented lifestyle.

Eventually, that quiet little town got pretty popular, and started needing schools and such. Well, those residents from the north, along with their southern neighbors, decided to put some of their tax money towards the infrastructure of that new found town. Schools were built, beaches were maintained, roads were paved, police and fire departments were provided, and so on.

As time "progressed", that little town got a little ahead of itself and things started changing. Suddenly, those original "community builders" were faced with some problems that they had never foreseen happening to that quite little town. Land got re-subdivided, residents started feeling the "crunch" of diversity - there were even a few new folks wanting to take prayer out of schools that they built. And this might even effect some of the schools that those folks up north (town builders) built for themselves. Of course, this didn't set well with a lot of those original folks, seeing as they continue to pay for those schools.........


I think this has been mentioned before.
 

Matt J

SWGB
May 9, 2007
24,646
9,496
Geo -

Before you kick me in the head about that last remark (probably already have, seeing as I type too slow), let me tell you a story......


There's a nice quiet town in the south that borders the Gulf of Mexico. Most of the residents kind of keep to themselves; they're from different walks of life, a little spread out, and don't really want to infringe on the original folks that have lived there awhile. North of this town, there's a lot of folks that used to live by the water, but they're not that enamored with it anymore (you'll understand that some day), and besides- it got expensive. So they moved north a ways in search of a more close-knit, family oriented lifestyle.

Eventually, that quiet little town got pretty popular, and started needing schools and such. Well, those residents from the north, along with their southern neighbors, decided to put some of their tax money towards the infrastructure of that new found town. Schools were built, beaches were maintained, roads were paved, police and fire departments were provided, and so on.

As time "progressed", that little town got a little ahead of itself and things started changing. Suddenly, those original "community builders" were faced with some problems that they had never foreseen happening to that quite little town. Land got re-subdivided, residents started feeling the "crunch" of diversity - there were even a few new folks wanting to take prayer out of schools that they built. And this might even effect some of the schools that those folks up north (town builders) built for themselves. Of course, this didn't set well with a lot of those original folks, seeing as they continue to pay for those schools.........


I think this has been mentioned before.

So to summarize, we be's ignant and we likes it that way?
 

Geo

Beach Fanatic
Dec 24, 2006
2,750
2,782
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
So to summarize, we be's ignant and we likes it that way?

That's one way to interpret but let's give Woodworker a chance.

Woodworker, please summarize what I should get from the story you just told me. Right now I am getting-

"Some of us created a community with a specific vision. This vision included prayer in public schools. But now the town has grown and with that growth has come diversity and liberal ideas which we don't necessarily like- one of which is that prayer in public school is a bad thing."

Is that the gist?
 

Matt J

SWGB
May 9, 2007
24,646
9,496
Oops - bad move!

I don't think that attitude is gonna go over very well around here.

I could have gone with the other assumption from your post which is that whoever is here first gets to pick the religion. If you follow that logic then we should all be living in Teepee's and worshiping the Eagle God.
 

woodworker

Beach Lover
Jan 26, 2008
156
32
SRB
That's one way to interpret but let's give Woodworker a chance.

Woodworker, please summarize what I should get from the story you just told me. Right now I am getting-

"Some of us created a community with a specific vision. This vision included prayer in public schools. But now the town has grown and with that growth has come diversity and liberal ideas which we don't necessarily like- one of which is that prayer in public school is a bad thing."

Is that the gist?

Boy, I'm getting wore out, I'll tell ya that!

I wouldn't say "vision" as much as I would say "tradition" or "way of life".
And prayer was a pretty "liberal idea" to begin with. Maybe you're just wanting to replace some peoples liberal idea with your liberal idea?

What you get out of the story is up to you. I was hoping you would get- "well, there's other people in the world (who were living a certain way for a long time before I got here), and I guess I could learn to respect some of their traditions that might be important to them".


I guess you're becoming something of the "atheist missionary". :lol:
 
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