Pandora's gets shut down at 9:30 due to Coconut Radio's "loud music"....

[Smiling JOe]

It doesn't appear that the warnings took place.....we played our first set (1hr) and during that time the bartender asked that we turn the volume down. We turned it down until we were mostly heard acoustically....during our 1st break we noticed to police officers come in through the tiki bar and go straight to the kitchen at which point they brought out the manager and escorted him to the parking lot, frisked him and put him in the back seat and drove away.....now, if they had gone through all the steps neccessary, we didn't know about it.....all I know is that we lost income, the employees lost income, and there were some pretty dissappointed people there. (and by the way, none of them were drunk, disorderly, or otherwise.)

First, I'd like to point out to someone else that according to the Grayton Beach Noise Ordinance, loud, obnoxious drunks aren't included in this particular noise ordinance. Those sounds included are noted below.

ARTICLE V. NOISE
DIVISION 1. GENERALLY
Secs. 9-131--9-135. Reserved.


DIVISION 2. GRAYTON BEACH
Sec. 9-137. Definitions.

Plainly audible means any sound or noise produced or reproduced by a radio, tape player, television, electronic audio equipment, musical instrument, sound amplifier or other mechanical or electronic soundmaking device, that can be heard by a person using normal hearing faculties, at a distance of 100 feet or more from the real property line of the source of the sound or noise.

***************
Weatabix,
Sounds like you are one of the musicians playing that night, and it sounds like your duo was not warned by law enforcement.

Sec. 9-140. Violation procedures. (a) Complaint procedures; warnings.

(1) When a complaint is received, the law enforcement officer or designated county official shall promptly investigate the charges. The person making the compliant will not be required to identify himself/herself and may remain anonymous.



(2) When a law enforcement officer or designated county official determines that the sound emanating from a piece of property is in violation of section 9-138 of this division, the official shall issue an official warning to (1) the person or persons responsible for compliance with this division and (2) the person or persons making the actual sound. The warning shall state the violation, shall advise the offenders to cease and desist the violation, and shall advise of the possible penalty if the person or persons fail to eliminate the sound or reduce the sound so that it is within permitted limits and is not plainly audible.



(3) The person or persons receiving the warning shall have five minutes to comply with the warning.



(4) A warning issued under subsection (a)(2) is valid for a period of 30 days, and such warning shall remain in effect against the offending person or persons for the same or similar type violations for a period of 30 days.



(b) Arrest; termination of offending sound.


(1) If the sound is not eliminated or reduced to allowable limits within five minutes after the warning, or if the noise or sound is abated after warning and then reoccurs within 30 days, the person so warned and not complying shall be arrested for a violation of this division and upon conviction shall be subject to the penalties designated in section 9-141.



(2) If an arrest is made, the law enforcement officer or designated county official shall have the power and authority to immediately terminate the cause of the offending sound, including prohibiting any further sound from musical instruments or mechanical or electronic soundmaking devices or equipment for a period of 24 hours.



(c) Joint and several responsibility. The owner of the business, tenant or lessee of property, or a manager, overseer or agent, or any other person lawfully entitled to posses the property or manage the business premises from which the offending sound is emitted at the time the offending sound is emitted shall be jointly and severally liable for compliance with this division and each shall be punished for its volition as shall the person or persons actually causing such sound. It shall not be a lawful defense to assert that some other person caused the sound. The lawful possessor, manager or operator of the premises shall be responsible for operating or maintaining the premises in compliance with this division shall be applied to such person or persons as well as to the person or persons actually causing the sound.

(Ord. No. 96-15, ? 5, 6-24-96)

***************

I'm no lawyer, and don't pretend to be one, but my understanding of the English language and the Walton County Ordinances (shown in bold and underline above), requires both the owner/management to be warned AND the person or persons making the "noise" to be warned. There is much difference between the words, "or" and "and." It seems to me that if the band wasn't also warned, they should not be able to arrest either party for the violation. What do you other non-lawyers think?

One other note regarding this last note in the Ordinance:
Sec. 9-142. Judicial construction. No provision of this noise ordinance shall be construed to impair any common law or statutory cause of action, or legal remedy therefrom. If any provision of this noise ordinance is held to be unconstitutional, preempted by federal or state law, or otherwise invalid by any court of competent jurisdiction, the remaining provisions of the noise ordinance shall not be invalidated.

(Ord. No. 96-15, ? 7, 6-24-96)
***********************
Shouldn't the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution supersede this Ordinance?
Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

[the steenos]

what to do

I believe there is a process in place which involves the authorities selecting portions of local ordinance combined with state law that has resulted in this ridiculous interpretation and unlikely incarceration of business managers. This person or persons were emboldened by the problems last year at the Salty Dog and also local wedding venues which they felt were compromising their serenity. We need our laws changed to enhance our current economic climate and someone needs to be looking at the greater good which should be more than complete quiet near commercial zones. Also we should be made aware of the validity of the complaints and how they are being measured and interpreted and by whom.I think we need a lawyer or someone to help us figure out what exactly is the law and if it needs to be re-written. The people involved here live and work in this community and spend money here too. There is more involved than trying to exact a tranquil environment near business property which has been long standing .

 

[weatabix]

First, I'd like to point out to someone else that according to the Grayton Beach Noise Ordinance, loud, obnoxious drunks aren't included in this particular noise ordinance. Those sounds included are noted below.

ARTICLE V. NOISE
DIVISION 1. GENERALLY
Secs. 9-131--9-135. Reserved.


DIVISION 2. GRAYTON BEACH
Sec. 9-137. Definitions.

Plainly audible means any sound or noise produced or reproduced by a radio, tape player, television, electronic audio equipment, musical instrument, sound amplifier or other mechanical or electronic soundmaking device, that can be heard by a person using normal hearing faculties, at a distance of 100 feet or more from the real property line of the source of the sound or noise.

***************
Weatabix,
Sounds like you are one of the musicians playing that night, and it sounds like your duo was not warned by law enforcement.

Sec. 9-140. Violation procedures. (a) Complaint procedures; warnings.

(1) When a complaint is received, the law enforcement officer or designated county official shall promptly investigate the charges. The person making the compliant will not be required to identify himself/herself and may remain anonymous.



(2) When a law enforcement officer or designated county official determines that the sound emanating from a piece of property is in violation of section 9-138 of this division, the official shall issue an official warning to (1) the person or persons responsible for compliance with this division and (2) the person or persons making the actual sound. The warning shall state the violation, shall advise the offenders to cease and desist the violation, and shall advise of the possible penalty if the person or persons fail to eliminate the sound or reduce the sound so that it is within permitted limits and is not plainly audible.



(3) The person or persons receiving the warning shall have five minutes to comply with the warning.



(4) A warning issued under subsection (a)(2) is valid for a period of 30 days, and such warning shall remain in effect against the offending person or persons for the same or similar type violations for a period of 30 days.



(b) Arrest; termination of offending sound.


(1) If the sound is not eliminated or reduced to allowable limits within five minutes after the warning, or if the noise or sound is abated after warning and then reoccurs within 30 days, the person so warned and not complying shall be arrested for a violation of this division and upon conviction shall be subject to the penalties designated in section 9-141.



(2) If an arrest is made, the law enforcement officer or designated county official shall have the power and authority to immediately terminate the cause of the offending sound, including prohibiting any further sound from musical instruments or mechanical or electronic soundmaking devices or equipment for a period of 24 hours.



(c) Joint and several responsibility. The owner of the business, tenant or lessee of property, or a manager, overseer or agent, or any other person lawfully entitled to posses the property or manage the business premises from which the offending sound is emitted at the time the offending sound is emitted shall be jointly and severally liable for compliance with this division and each shall be punished for its volition as shall the person or persons actually causing such sound. It shall not be a lawful defense to assert that some other person caused the sound. The lawful possessor, manager or operator of the premises shall be responsible for operating or maintaining the premises in compliance with this division shall be applied to such person or persons as well as to the person or persons actually causing the sound.

(Ord. No. 96-15, ? 5, 6-24-96)

***************

I'm no lawyer, and don't pretend to be one, but my understanding of the English language and the Walton County Ordinances (shown in bold and underline above), requires both the owner/management to be warned AND the person or persons making the "noise" to be warned. There is much difference between the words, "or" and "and." It seems to me that if the band wasn't also warned, they should not be able to arrest either party for the violation. What do you other non-lawyers think?

One other note regarding this last note in the Ordinance:
Sec. 9-142. Judicial construction. No provision of this noise ordinance shall be construed to impair any common law or statutory cause of action, or legal remedy therefrom. If any provision of this noise ordinance is held to be unconstitutional, preempted by federal or state law, or otherwise invalid by any court of competent jurisdiction, the remaining provisions of the noise ordinance shall not be invalidated.

(Ord. No. 96-15, ? 7, 6-24-96)
***********************
Shouldn't the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution supersede this Ordinance?
Amendment 1: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Interesting!! We (Coconut Radio) were never approached about our sound levels by law enforcement that night. The police simply appeared and escorted away the person in charge....We were never given a warning and as I stated before, our levels were at acoustics levels to begin with AND at the time of the arrest we were on break....Thanks to everyone in support of the live music scene in Sowal....There are so many talented musicians in that area and I think it is wrong not to allow them to share their music with the music lovers!!

 

[Eileen West]

The law is unconstitutional. An anonymous person can complain and shut down a business employing dozens of SOWAL citizens.
Back in the 80s many law abiding fishermen had their boats seized and livelihoods lost because of the "Zero Tolerance" policy allowed anonymous tips to cause minuscule amounts of pot to be conveniently "found" in tin cans onborad. How did it get there? Seemed a great way to keep competitors out of the water. Perhaps another bar owner wanted to crowds to come over? Probably not, but without being able to confront your acuser, who knows? Do we still have habeas corpus in this country?

 

[JamBone]

the hospitality industry employs more workers than any other industry in the united states only trailing the federal government. what do we have here in sowal? service industry, construction, real estate and retail. the people have the power and that power only becomes viable when organized.

i hereby propose to this community of "hospitalitarians" and entertainers that we at once unite and organize. we can then create an agenda and start achieving the objectives necessary to have our voices heard by our local government. by creating this unique and important lobby of like minded civilians we can begin to influence policy and law as it pertains to the benefit of our industry, our livelihoods and imho the betterment of our community and all that live in it.

as with any effective group we will have to create and attract membership, elect leadership, arrange and participate in meetings, and attend local government hearings etc..

i am willing to help get this in motion by contacting my fellow restaurateurs to gauge their interest and offer my space to meet.

it would also seem completely reasonable for this to be open to any walton county resident not just musicians and restaurateurs and the issues at hand would span well beyond just noise ordinances.

together our voices WILL be heard!

any thoughts or suggestions or anyone out there that is experienced in this type of organizing effort would be welcome to come forward and offer their skills in this matter.

scott alderson

 

[gmarc]

I just drove by pandora's tonight and i didn't see 1 car there. Is it closed?Thats a ridiculous illegal law that should be challanged

 

[buster]

I have heard some of "the rest of the story". Apparently, Pandora's new management has been attempting to turn it into a late night party place with music louder and later than previous. Alcohol sales are prohibited in Grayton Beach after 11 on weeknights and midnight on weekends. The Grayton beach noise ordinance came about because of the Red Bar, a compromise was reached, Ollie plays nice, and everyone gets along. It was worked out quite awhile ago and has been time tested. Recent changes at Pandora's has brought a slew of complaints by many different residents and tourists over the last few months.

So you see, the neighbors started out nice, but the new manager (22 years old) has ignored the nice attempts at working together, and flaunted the law. He is now paying the price. It's a small community. You can't come in and dump on people and ignore the law, and expect to get away with it.

Pandora's has been a great place to have dinner and hang out back and listen to good music, ending at a reasonable hour. It seems lately there is more of an emphasis in SoWal to party, understandably fostered by some establishments and local musicians. That's great but there are certain places where loud music can go on late at night and good times can be had. SoWal is and mostly always will be a family place and destination. Scenic 30A is primarily a residential kind of place.

The bottom line for Pandora's is that it isn't the neighbors who are changing,and suddenly upset about music, it is Pandora's that is changing by turning up the music and doing it later into the night. If that is what they must do then it needs to be done inside. There is plenty of space and some reading this may remember when very loud bands have played indoors.

As an aside, wedding parties in rental houses have become a huge noise problem for neighbors that the law is having to deal with.

 

[Sarah Moss]

(Quoting the entire thread), Glad to be out of sowal.

I think it's great that there is so much passion against McDonalds and Walmart (have any tried to come there anyway with such high property prices?).

But no music crosses the line. What is there to do at night? If there is no music and fun, than what is there? "The Beach". It's sad that the few local spots that remain are now being managed by one complaint. I highly doubt that there were any more but one complaint (or many complaints from one) that closed the event.

Allow them, or don't. It's sad to see what "allow them" can mean (think PCB, Destin), but not allowing them seems like it will keep all of sowal in residential zoning forever. Please tell me that the future will bring music to enjoy in Sowal.....

 

[wrobert]

That's a flawed analogy.

What you should have said is that you bought a house next to a major airport that had been around for 20 years and then started complaining about airplane noise.

I think that's a little more applicable...

No I agree with you on that one. People do that, imho, because they get the places cheap then they go to work getting things quieter. Boortz rants about this all the time.

I was asking about the wedding thing. That is the one I have heard about repeatedly where people retired to long time family houses, only to have these mini-motels(monster houses) next to them turn into wedding venues. How are these long time residents suppose to be protected?

 

[wrobert]

Can someone post the Sheriffs phone number? He is the one to call and find out what happened and to voice your concerns.

I believe the Sun article stated that he held office hours in sowal on Wednesdays.