Pandora's gets shut down at 9:30 due to Coconut Radio's "loud music"....

[buster]

I am not in the business and so can't provide much in the way of a professional opinion, but last weekend a co-worker came down with her husband and another couple and emailed me asking what there was to do - their wish list started with "good food and live music".

I couldn't give her much of an answer - and now that I read this thread, I realize that it is because that the music is vanishing.

So, for you folks that want to put together a group to have a voice, perhaps you can start with some professional polling of visitors, asking whether or not live music influences their decision making. I think you will find that it does, for that important high-income, no kids population.

I am afraid, though, that there is a large drive to make this stretch the most "family friendly" beach it can be, and that is what is pushing this "blandization" of 30-a.

IMO you are wrong, there is no push, SoWal is family-friendly and likely always will be. I would say that while there is an issue right now, due to growth of the area, noise ordinance negotiation comes to every community as it grows. Something every community has to deal with at some point. It takes awhile to educate everyone and get on the same page. And there will be some on both sides who are not satisfied in the end but the majority will be served.

Calm heads need to prevail. The music scene is alive and growing in SoWal and it is a good thing. As artists and venues expand there will be some friction. We all want business owners to succeed, but they must do it with a good heart and not get too greedy. The Red Bar and Ollie Petit has set a great example. If he can thrive in the smallest and quietest of places, anyone else can too if they respect the community. I encourage any business owner to contact him. He is so warm and open - he will have excellent advice.

You notice there is always an off-duty deputy at his venue (in the past at the 331 also)? You think that is by accident?

I love music in an outdoor setting, but there are some places that isn't going to work past 9 or 10 PM.

 

[Smiling JOe]

I just drove by pandora's tonight and i didn't see 1 car there. Is it closed?Thats a ridiculous illegal law that should be challanged

Pandora's is closed on Mondays.

 

[Smiling JOe]

This is a problem and my understanding is that you will not be told who complained at the time but it is public record...

Amendment 6, US Constitution (aka - Bill of Rights): "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

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If this noise violation is a criminal breach of the Ordinance, it seems to me that the anonymity is in opposition to the US Constitution, and that particular part of the Ordinance is un-Constitutional. Again, I'm no attorney, nor do I pretend to be one.

(A public nuisance is a criminal wrong; it is an act or omission that obstructs, damages, or inconveniences the rights of the community.) Thinking about a public nuisance, I think a community could take the stand that not having music and entertainment is an act which obstructs and inconveniences the rights of the community. (There is a case in GA where the upper Courts ruled that a town's laws against strip clubs was unConstitutional because it interfeared with the strippers' rights of Freedom of Speech (Expression). )

 

[Smiling JOe]

Coconut Radio was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is a shame they got hurt, but apparently it is the manager they should blame, not the neighbors.

As I understand this particular situation, the band playing, was playing at an acoustic level.

If one wanted to raise hell, I believe the ordinance pertains to only amplified sounds, so maybe we should have all-acoustic sit ins, where the entire bar sings. I'd double check that Ordinance and get a true legal opinion before doing that. ;-)

 

[Smiling JOe]

American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia, News Release
April 17, 2009

Virginia Supreme Court Declares Virginia Beach
Noise Ordinance Unconstitutional
Thomas Jefferson Center and ACLU of Virginia filed amicus brief
on behalf of club owners arguing that ordinance
violates the First Amendment because of vagueness ​

Virginia Beach, VA – The Virginia Supreme Court today struck down Virginia Beach’s noise ordinance because it is unconstitutionally vague. The ordinance prohibits “any unreasonably loud, disturbing and unnecessary noise in the city” that “disturb or annoy the quiet, comfort or repose of reasonable persons.”


“We are pleased with the Court’s decision to strike down this law,” said ACLU of Virginia Executive Director Kent Willis. “Virginia Beach is free to control noise, but it must do so in a way that is reasonable and precise so as not leave residents and business owners guessing whether or not they are violating the law.”


The case, Tanner v. Virginia Beach, was filed by Bradley Tanner and Eric Williams, owners of The Peppermint Beach Club in Virginia Beach, who were frequently cited under the ordinance. The owners presented a broad range of evidence to show that the ordinance is vague and unevenly enforced. Police witnesses admitted that they use their own subjective judgment to decide if someone is violating the ordinance....

...Virginia Beach could correct its noise ordinance by stating a maximum decibel level at which sound can be heard at a specified distance from its source, as other localities have done. In this way, there is a quantifiable method by which to decide if someone is being too loud....

(full story)
********************


This was the first link which came up when I googled "noise ordinance unconstitutional," though there are many cases. Try it and see what you can find.

 

[buster]

As I understand this particular situation, the band playing, was playing at an acoustic level.

If one wanted to raise hell, I believe the ordinance pertains to only amplified sounds, so maybe we should have all-acoustic sit ins, where the entire bar sings. I'd double check that Ordinance and get a true legal opinion before doing that. ;-)

The point I was making is that there had been so many complaints that the next call was going to result in an arrest. Not saying it is right or wrong but there is always 2 sides to every story. I don't know all the facts so I'm not meaning to take one side or the other. Sometimes I like my music, and sometimes I like my peace.

 

[Smiling JOe]

It seems that many local noise ordinances all over the Country have been deemed unConstitutional by the Courts, citing vagueness and discrimination. The ones which I read that note the vagueness, suggest a particular decimal level. In my opinion, enforcing that would be difficult at best since a decimal meter cannot be focused so that it doesn't pick up all sounds from the area. The Walton County Ordinance, as I understand it, doesn't make it illegal for bar crowds to be loud, only the amplified sounds. I suspect that much of the sound eminating from a bar with music comes from the crowd trying to talk over the level of the music.

 

[Smiling JOe]

The point I was making is that there had been so many complaints that the next call was going to result in an arrest. Not saying it is right or wrong but there is always 2 sides to every story. I don't know all the facts so I'm not meaning to take one side or the other. Sometimes I like my music, and sometimes I like my peace.

Thanks. I wasn't there, and was relying solely on the word of one in the band that night. I don't pretend to know the details.

 

[ASH]

I don't live anywhere near the Pandoras neighborhood, and have read every line of this thread to here before deciding to comment.

Is the 100 foot distance an effort to keep the music being played contained within the business patrons seating area? This would make sense to me.

I would go to more live music if I though there was a chance of being able to spend time with someone and actually carry out a conversation at the same time without needing to scream at the top of my lungs. Too many times, this is not possible.

To their defense, it doesn't sound like this is what the Coconuts were doing either.

The music intended for the folks hanging out at Pandoras should not need to be so loud as to be heard at the Red Bar, right? Seriously, right?
I grew up with Skynerd and Kiss and Mickey, but I don't need to listen to it at 110 decibels. It takes it way outside of my personal space and into someone else who maybe wants to listen to ABBA....or just the waves they just drove 800 miles to listen to.

I agree with both sides of this thread and would implore everyone to put their picket signs and pitchforks down.

Where would these local communities be without all the artists and musicians?
Where would these local communities be without the beaches and the waves?

You gotta have them both. Empathy, understanding the needs of the local small communities and above all, patience will yield the proper solution.

 

[GoodWitch58]

having music (even loud music) at 9:30 on a Saturday night at a restaurant/bar does not seem unreasonable to me--and I am a Granma who prefers Chopin!