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mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
Yes poppy I am clueless to why you choose to insult me and others in this forum who disagree with you. I am clueless to why you choose to blame the South Carolina shooting on the confederate flag without any discussion on mental health and gun safety. I have challenged you to give us at least one example other than your support of removing the confederate flag of how you respect black people and to recite your knowledge of Sheridan, Sherman and Grant's respect toward women, children, homes, historic buildings, monuments, infratructure, etc. War is probably much closer to evil that any of us would like to admit. I do not have any expectations of gaining your respect but I am still waiting to hear from Mr. Ortiz regarding why he chose to recite only one side of such a terrible war.
 

poppy

Banned
Sep 10, 2008
2,854
928
Miramar Beach
As I said, clueless. You're going to have to re-fight the Civil War alone.
 
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Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,241
9,277
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
Teresa, when you go back and read all the posts in this thread and others it should be obvious who has respect and who does not have respect for an opposing viewpoint. I also believe in people and will always reach out to those who disagree with me in an effort to be respectful. I would like to have a conversation with Mr. Ortiz to give him a chance to explain why he chose to be so one sided in stating civil war atrocities. I do not try to insult people and I believe that everything I have read in this thread on the confederate side have been very respectful. If you do not see the disrespect then you may be somewhat biased by your position (I am sure I do the same thing). Of course I do not know anything about you or these other posters that choose a more divisive method to communicate. I do believe that you try to understand and listen to both sides but I am confused why you posted the Ortiz letter.

The Ortiz letter was recently published locally as a recommendation to the Walton County BCC, and I believe also published in the Walton Sun last week. It was written to our county, so I believe it's a valid piece regarding what is going on here (whether you like it or not). It is an "opinion" of one person. I don't believe you should read into its intentions otherwise.

I have totally learned a lot out of this issue!!! Yes, there are some who are very respectful here who can be counted on for providing good, direct information without putting down the ideas of others. Truly appreciate those efforts.
 

Zebraspots

Beach Fanatic
May 15, 2008
840
247
Santa Rosa Beach
Regardless of your personal feelings or unique slant on history, it is ridiculous to fly the Confederate flag on public land in 2015.

You may display it on your private property, but it has no place on public property, for serious historical and cultural reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum.

I find it very telling that some would dismiss Professor Ortiz's letter because they assume he isn't from here and thus can't fully understand the issue. Yes, his letter expressed an "opinion," but it was the educated opinion of a well known and respected professor of history, who cited facts and sources to back up that opinion.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
The Ortiz letter was recently published locally as a recommendation to the Walton County BCC, and I believe also published in the Walton Sun last week. It was written to our county, so I believe it's a valid piece regarding what is going on here (whether you like it or not). It is an "opinion" of one person. I don't believe you should read into its intentions otherwise.

I have totally learned a lot out of this issue!!! Yes, there are some who are very respectful here who can be counted on for providing good, direct information without putting down the ideas of others. Truly appreciate those efforts.
The point I am trying to make about the Ortiz letter is that since he "stated" his position as a history professor, the intent may or may not have been one of "I know better than you people what is right and wrong here and therefore believe that the flag should be removed from the memorial". Otherwise why didn't he just give his name and say that he personally believes that the flag should be removed out of respect for those that died in the shooting? In his long letter he mentioned only atrocities on one side which indicates a bias because the truth is that both sides raped and killed innocent defenseless people and destroyed property unnecessarily. I understand his opinion but I believe he opened himself up for criticism by stating his position as an "educator".
 

Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,241
9,277
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
The point I am trying to make about the Ortiz letter is that since he "stated" his position as a history professor, the intent may or may not have been one of "I know better than you people what is right and wrong here and therefore believe that the flag should be removed from the memorial". Otherwise why didn't he just give his name and say that he personally believes that the flag should be removed out of respect for those that died in the shooting? In his long letter he mentioned only atrocities on one side which indicates a bias because the truth is that both sides raped and killed innocent defenseless people and destroyed property unnecessarily. I understand his opinion but I believe he opened himself up for criticism by stating his position as an "educator".

He opened up the letter by stating this was his opinion on the issue. Also, he opened himself up for criticism just by writing the letter at all. I applaud him or anyone from either side who takes the time out of their day to do so.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
Regardless of your personal feelings or unique slant on history, it is ridiculous to fly the Confederate flag on public land in 2015.

You may display it on your private property, but it has no place on public property, for serious historical and cultural reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum.

I find it very telling that some would dismiss Professor Ortiz's letter because they assume he isn't from here and thus can't fully understand the issue. Yes, his letter expressed an "opinion," but it was the educated opinion of a well known and respected professor of history, who cited facts and sources to back up that opinion.
Do you believe that you know better than Walton County Citizens with a long history of living in this county regarding what to do with the confederate flag? Mr. Ortiz was talking about the battle of Olustee and other selected battles outside of Walton County which also seems a little ridiculously one sided and not exactly relevant unless he has personally spoken with Walton County Citizens that had relatives in the Civil War. I think it would be respectful of Mr. Ortiz to explain why he selectively recited those war atrocities.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
He opened up the letter by stating this was his opinion on the issue. Also, he opened himself up for criticism just by writing the letter at all. I applaud him or anyone from either side who takes the time out of their day to do so.
You and I have taken a lot of time out of our day(s) to have an opinion about this. Mr. Ortiz is not more or less than any other person with a desire to express their opinion. Yes, he is educated in history but I do not think he has talked to one Walton County citizen with a history in this county. If I am wrong about this then I hope that he will correct me.

This whole thing to remove the flag has simply missed the chance to discuss human behavioral problems. This whole discussion is really about something else entirely. It is a chance for some to use a tragedy to somehow support their idealism or prejudice against another group of people. I think this country is divided not so much by North or South but by Liberal and Conservative. Every day they grow farther and farther apart. I try to stay in the middle but I admit to being drawn in by just shear emotional reaction to what I believe to be right. Humans are flawed and it seems that politics have figured out how to use that to their advantage. We need a Moderate Political Party but true moderate thinkers are hard to find. If I could just understand why you posted Mr. Ortiz's letter or why you applaud him so much I just might vote for you.
 

liz coats

Beach Lover
Jun 19, 2012
118
55
If politically correct = doing the right thing, being kind and just, teaching your children respect and appreciation for others, overcoming racism... Then I'm for it. But I think politically correct is just a dumb phrase. Just call it what it is. Making a good choice in your actions and words.. Being thoughtful. Listening. Doing. Making a difference. Accepting that there are others who are effected by your actions and words.

Some of us believe that "doing the right ting, being kind and just, teaching your children respect and appreciation for others", etc. doesn't equate to believing in exactly the same values as so called progressives. Some of the progressives on this very forum ridicule those of us who are Christians or of some other faith and make fun of our traditional values. I've never displayed the Confederate battle flag but I'm not offended by it. On the other hand I'm offended by attempts to erase history and the desecration of historic sites and the graves of historic figues in the South. But of course, what offends me and some other southerners doesn't count. And BTW, I'm one of those "racists" who supports Ben Carson for president.
 

Danny Glidewell

Beach Fanatic
Mar 26, 2008
725
914
Glendale
A little information about Professor Paul Ortiz from the University of Florida's website:

"Professor Ortiz is currently the faculty adviser for UF chapter of the Dream Defenders, Students for a Democratic Society, the Venezuelan Students Association & CHISPAS."

For those who have written here and elsewhere that this is only about a flag and that no one wants to take down memorials and statues, you might want to look at CHISPAS UF's Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/chispasuf/photos/a.215602945302064.1073741828.203932659802426/372260229636334/?type=1

The Dream Defenders describes itself as: " The Dream Defenders develop the next generation of radical leaders to realize and exercise our independent collective power."

Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) is a United States student organization representing left wing beliefs.

This is only the beginning and individuals like Professor Ortiz have an agenda that is decidedly left wing and socialist. If you support him, that is your right. But please spare us the claim that he is some sort of unbiased history professor. As the old saying goes, "He's got a dog in the hunt."
 
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