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GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,816
1,921
I guess we could make everyone by an education "policy" rather they wanted to or not and get the type of response you are looking for.

huh?:dunno:
 

Bob

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2004
10,364
1,391
O'Wal
I think some major changes are needed in our school systems.

The only issue I have with this is that teacher pay/employment is based on student performance on these tests.

And teachers complaining it is "unfair" because they can't control all of the other factors in student's lives really rubs me the wrong way. That is nothing new and you get the kids for a significant portion of their awake hours.

I do think teachers need more authority and disciplinary control in the schools and that we must make sure the kids are fed and have the necessary supplies, but beyond that, it's time for the teachers to stop whining and step up.

I know it's not an easy job, and this may not be the right solution, but when you aren't getting results, changes happen.
dude, rethink this post
 

Bob

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2004
10,364
1,391
O'Wal
Read what I wrote - I want to give teachers more disciplinary control over their classrooms and make sure every kid has the food and supplies to learn.

Those address most of the major complaints I hear from teachers - kids unable to focus, lack of proper materials, no discipline, and being undermined by parents.

Then it's time for the teachers to step up and hopefully see an increase in both their pay and their student's performance.

If teachers aren't responsible for their students' performance, who exactly is? :dunno:
the student
 

mdd88jd

Beach Lover
May 26, 2008
155
210
if I remember correctly Mark you are an attorney - do you have tenure with the State Bar. I am sure that we all need lawyers and doctors protected from unfair treatment by clients when they do not provide adequate expertise in representing them, or injure them.

Good Bill - Will improve the quality of education.

Good teachers have nothing to fear in this bill.

No, I do not have tenure. But, my livelihood is almost entirely dependent on me. And, I earn a lot more money that even the highest paid teacher in the system. For that much higher pay, I am willing to accept the risk of being "fired." But, should a teacher have that same risk, earning a much lower salary? And by risk, I mean subject to the uncertainties of her students, the political nature of her job (principals are subject to political pressure just like superintendents), and a lack of support by parents. And, can a teacher truly be academically free to teach the truth when the only contract she has is a one year contract? I really believe that this bill threatens academic freedom.

Again, I know that tenure sometimes protects a bad teacher. But, if a principal wants to get rid of tenured bad teacher they can, and that has happened in this system. Its hard to do and it should be hard to do. But, I believe that tenure more often protects good teachers from arbitrary firings that have nothing to do with teaching ability. And again, this bill puts teachers on a one year contract and only half of their performance review is based on test scores. Thus, a good teacher, with good test score performance could be fired for trumped up reasons.

Lastly, I want to know how we are going to be able to keep the current salary schedule for teachers and at the same time reduce our budget 5% (that is returned to the State for "peformance pay")? This bill does not provide any "extra" money for teacher salaries...

As always, enjoy your imput...

Mark.
 

russrich

Beach Comber
May 8, 2006
49
2
From the WSJ

Florida wasn't one of the states awarded a Race to the Top education grant for its school reform efforts from the Obama Administration. But the state continues to demonstrate why it deserved to be a recipient notwithstanding Republican Governor Charlie Crist, who can't seem to decide whether he stands with school children or the teachers unions.

As we neared deadline last night, Florida's House of Representative was poised to pass legislation that would abolish teacher tenure in public schools; require teachers to be evaluated based on the progress of students in their class; and reward the most effective teachers with better pay. Teachers in Florida receive a lifetime guarantee of employment after a mere three years of "satisfactory" evaluations. Last year, 99.7% of Florida teachers earned a satisfactory evaluation, including 100% of teachers in more than 50 of the state's 67 counties. Such reviews are meaningless.

When districts grant tenure without taking into account whether students are learning, ineffective instructors become impossible to fire. Under the proposed legislation, none of the 175,000 Florida teachers with tenure would lose it. But teachers hired after July 1, 2010 would join an annual contract system, and their evaluations would be based in part on the progress of their students.

On Monday, Governor Crist indicated he would sign the bill, which has already passed the state senate. By Thursday, however, he'd gone wobbly, citing teacher union concerns that pay-for-performance would disadvantage instructors who teach poor children and students with special needs.

But on the latest National Assessment of Educational Progress test, scores for Florida's fourth-grade students with disabilities jumped by nine points, compared to a one point drop in the national average. And low-income eighth-grade test scores rose by six points, versus a national increase of two points. The reality is that kids with learning disabilities or who come from underprivileged families are as capable of academic progress as other children. Their teachers should not escape accountability.

Mr. Crist is seeking a U.S. Senate seat in November and facing a tough challenge for the GOP nomination from conservative Marco Rubio. Conservatives have soured on the Governor for his embrace of the Obama Administration's spending agenda, among other things, and some have speculated that he will run as an independent to bypass the Republican primary. Mr. Crist insists he will run as a Republican. In any event, Floridians will have to decide whether they want a Senator who's tempted to side with the adults who run public schools instead of with the children who attend them.

On a personal note - note - not sure for it or against it, but I do know that these are Pres. Obama's rules & I think Florida is trying to play by them. The "Race to the Top" program awarded 600 BILLION to Tennessee. We (Florida) lost out b/c, in part, of merit pay.

No, I do not have tenure. But, my livelihood is almost entirely dependent on me. And, I earn a lot more money that even the highest paid teacher in the system. For that much higher pay, I am willing to accept the risk of being "fired." But, should a teacher have that same risk, earning a much lower salary? And by risk, I mean subject to the uncertainties of her students, the political nature of her job (principals are subject to political pressure just like superintendents), and a lack of support by parents. And, can a teacher truly be academically free to teach the truth when the only contract she has is a one year contract? I really believe that this bill threatens academic freedom.

Again, I know that tenure sometimes protects a bad teacher. But, if a principal wants to get rid of tenured bad teacher they can, and that has happened in this system. Its hard to do and it should be hard to do. But, I believe that tenure more often protects good teachers from arbitrary firings that have nothing to do with teaching ability. And again, this bill puts teachers on a one year contract and only half of their performance review is based on test scores. Thus, a good teacher, with good test score performance could be fired for trumped up reasons.

Lastly, I want to know how we are going to be able to keep the current salary schedule for teachers and at the same time reduce our budget 5% (that is returned to the State for "peformance pay")? This bill does not provide any "extra" money for teacher salaries...

As always, enjoy your imput...

Mark.
 
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