SB6 Punishment of Teachers Bill Passed in the Middle of the NIght

[30ashopper]

No, I do not have tenure. But, my livelihood is almost entirely dependent on me. And, I earn a lot more money that even the highest paid teacher in the system. For that much higher pay, I am willing to accept the risk of being "fired." But, should a teacher have that same risk, earning a much lower salary?

35K - 65K per year doesn't seem like a "low salary" to me.. 35K a year fresh out of college would have been nice when I graduated. I think the top end should be pushed up around 75K but generally I don't feel we underpay our teachers.

And by risk, I mean subject to the uncertainties of her students, the political nature of her job (principals are subject to political pressure just like superintendents), and a lack of support by parents.

Welcome to the real world! You just described my private sector job. I deal with office politics, underlings doing childish things, jerk bosses, new hires, etc.. I don't think teachers need to worry about getting fired if they are good at what they do. They have unions backing them up to boot.

And, can a teacher truly be academically free to teach the truth when the only contract she has is a one year contract? I really believe that this bill threatens academic freedom.

At the university level I understand the need for tenure, especially in areas of research. But grade school curriculum is carefully designed and regulated by parents, the school board, and state government. This bill actually strengthens that.

Again, I know that tenure sometimes protects a bad teacher.

IMHO, that's really pretty much all it does at the grade school level.

But, if a principal wants to get rid of tenured bad teacher they can, and that has happened in this system. Its hard to do and it should be hard to do. But, I believe that tenure more often protects good teachers from arbitrary firings that have nothing to do with teaching ability.

Where is this fear of good teachers getting fired coming from? Can you cite some examples? How often does it actually happen? What effect does it have on a teacher's career? IMO, teaching is a job, you have an employer, you do good work, you keep your job.

And again, this bill puts teachers on a one year contract and only half of their performance review is based on test scores. Thus, a good teacher, with good test score performance could be fired for trumped up reasons.

Not sure about this, according to this link -

The Details of Merit Pay for Teachers - Wakulla County news, information, politics, entertainment, schools and sports

The bill puts entry level teachers on 1 year contracts, and experienced teachers on four year contracts.

Lastly, I want to know how we are going to be able to keep the current salary schedule for teachers and at the same time reduce our budget 5% (that is returned to the State for "peformance pay")? This bill does not provide any "extra" money for teacher salaries...

I see this as an issue as well. Extra funding should be provided to make this work. We can easily handle that right here at the county level with a tax increase.

 

[Here4Good]

I might be able to get behind this if it held every single person in the management chain responsible; if, for example, a district did not meet their requirements, none of the school board members would be allowed to run for re-election, and the superintendent did not get a raise/bonus, and if a school didn't meet the standard none of the administrators at the school would get a raise/bonus.

By tying only teacher pay to achievement, you're just insuring that all of the management has a real whipping boy now.

It's insane - it's as though Walmart held only their department managers responsible for sales and product quality and not the store managers, buyers, the logistics people responsible for getting the merchandise to the store, the marketing people, the manufacturers or anyone else in the entire company.

 

[scooterbug44]

I would definitely support adding something like that - though why a principal, administrator, or school board member would be getting a raise/bonus when the school is failing is beyond me. (Though I know it happens - even when they are running for election soon.)

 

[GoodWitch58]

Frankly, I think a member of the school board, teachers, and parents of children in school have more credibility on how things work and what needs to be fixed, than someone who has no children in school and has no experience with the administration of a school system.

In fact, some of this "disconnect" in this bill may be due to this same lack in the halls of the Florida legislature...

 

[mdd88jd]

35K - 65K per year doesn't seem like a "low salary" to me.. 35K a year fresh out of college would have been nice when I graduated. I think the top end should be pushed up around 75K but generally I don't feel we underpay our teachers.



Welcome to the real world! You just described my private sector job. I deal with office politics, underlings doing childish things, jerk bosses, new hires, etc.. I don't think teachers need to worry about getting fired if they are good at what they do. They have unions backing them up to boot.



At the university level I understand the need for tenure, especially in areas of research. But grade school curriculum is carefully designed and regulated by parents, the school board, and state government. This bill actually strengthens that.



IMHO, that's really pretty much all it does at the grade school level.



Where is this fear of good teachers getting fired coming from? Can you cite some examples? How often does it actually happen? What effect does it have on a teacher's career? IMO, teaching is a job, you have an employer, you do good work, you keep your job.



Not sure about this, according to this link -

The Details of Merit Pay for Teachers - Wakulla County news, information, politics, entertainment, schools and sports

The bill puts entry level teachers on 1 year contracts, and experienced teachers on four year contracts.



I see this as an issue as well. Extra funding should be provided to make this work. We can easily handle that right here at the county level with a tax increase.

I appreciate your response. Obviously we do not agree, but, that's okay. I think the biggest difference between the private sector and teachers is that you want to protect good teachers from those politics as much as possible precisely because they are teachers with a profound impact on our children's future. You are right about elementary curriculum, but, I believe the extraneous factors, home life, mobility, attendence, things a teacher can't control is more at play in the elementary grades than later. Lastly, I can't cite specific examples of teachers with tenure being let go because of legal privacy reasons. It has happened since I have been on the board. It usually ends with the teacher leaving on her own accord, a resignation, before the firing, but both resignations and firings have happened.

The only avenue for a tax increase in Walton County is a property tax increase. I have assidiously tried to avoid that during the economic downturn, but, there is no way to keep salaries where they are, add the "bonuses" and not increase taxes, in my humble opinion.

I agree that the starting salary is not too bad, but, after a four year degree and 20 years experience, the salary barely climbs about $50,000.00. That's not so good.

My experience has been that a teacher with an advanced degree in her subject area is a better teacher. We should reward teachers who get those types of advanced degrees.

Lastly, I still don't know how you award or not award teachers who teac children with severe learning disabilities, emotional disabilities and from lower socio-economic backgrounds. And, what about the teacher who teaches five periods and three of those classes (say biology) improve and two do not (say in chemistry). Can you say she is not an effective teacher.

More reasons for my opposition.

M

 

[mdd88jd]

I appreciate your response. Obviously we do not agree, but, that's okay. I think the biggest difference between the private sector and teachers is that you want to protect good teachers from those politics as much as possible precisely because they are teachers with a profound impact on our children's future. You are right about elementary curriculum, but, I believe the extraneous factors, home life, mobility, attendence, things a teacher can't control is more at play in the elementary grades than later. Lastly, I can't cite specific examples of teachers with tenure being let go because of legal privacy reasons. It has happened since I have been on the board. It usually ends with the teacher leaving on her own accord, a resignation, before the firing, but both resignations and firings have happened.

The only avenue for a tax increase in Walton County is a property tax increase. I have assidiously tried to avoid that during the economic downturn, but, there is no way to keep salaries where they are, add the "bonuses" and not increase taxes, in my humble opinion.

I agree that the starting salary is not too bad, but, after a four year degree and 20 years experience, the salary barely climbs about $50,000.00. That's not so good.

My experience has been that a teacher with an advanced degree in her subject area is a better teacher. We should reward teachers who get those types of advanced degrees.

Lastly, I still don't know how you award or not award teachers who teac children with severe learning disabilities, emotional disabilities and from lower socio-economic backgrounds. And, what about the teacher who teaches five periods and three of those classes (say biology) improve and two do not (say in chemistry). Can you say she is not an effective teacher.

More reasons for my opposition.

M

Sorry, had one more thought. Yes, I can think of several good teachers who got fired, not for performance, but, because they were too political (spoke out at board meetings, etc.,) or out of favor with a particular administration. It happens less with teachers because of tenure, but, it happens pretty regularly with principals on one year contracts.

 

[30ashopper]

Sorry, had one more thought. Yes, I can think of several good teachers who got fired, not for performance, but, because they were too political (spoke out at board meetings, etc.,) or out of favor with a particular administration. It happens less with teachers because of tenure, but, it happens pretty regularly with principals on one year contracts.

I'm a good employee at my company but if I stood up in a board meeting and stated the CEO was an idiot or criticized his performance, I'd probably get fired too.

When you say "too political", what are you referring to? National politics, local politics, religion, or just telling the school board they're all idiots? It's hard for me to judge without some context.

 

[Interested Girl]

Express Your Support for SB 6

Please Call or E-Mail Governor Charlie Crist to Express Your Support for SB 6

The Foundation for Florida's Future has released a new television ad urging Governor Charlie Crist to sign SB 6. The bill requires higher salaries for great teachers who are tackling our toughest challenges ? preparing students for success in the 21st century economy, closing the achievement gap and overcoming obstacles to ensure every student learns a year?s worth of knowledge in a year?s time.

Many people who are calling in support of SB 6 have reported that the phones at the Governor?s office are busy or the voice mailbox is full. If you can?t get through to the Governor?s office by phone, please email Governor Crist at Charlie.Crist@MyFlorida.com to share your support for SB 6.

Watch the ad at: YouTube - Afloridapromise's Channel

 

[Bob Wells]

Please Call or E-Mail Governor Charlie Crist to Express Your Support for SB 6

The Foundation for Florida's Future has released a new television ad urging Governor Charlie Crist to sign SB 6. The bill requires higher salaries for great teachers who are tackling our toughest challenges ? preparing students for success in the 21st century economy, closing the achievement gap and overcoming obstacles to ensure every student learns a year?s worth of knowledge in a year?s time.

Many people who are calling in support of SB 6 have reported that the phones at the Governor?s office are busy or the voice mailbox is full. If you can?t get through to the Governor?s office by phone, please email Governor Crist at Charlie.Crist@MyFlorida.com to share your support for SB 6.

Watch the ad at: YouTube - Afloridapromise's Channel

NO

 

[Interested Girl]

NO

Your right to not support the Bill or to encourage the Governor to sign the legislation, but why scream ?