Schools to Reduce Reading Coaches

[Teresa]

Could you elaborate on that? IMO either a kid can read and comprehend/process what they are reading or they can't.

And while I think athletics/physical activity are part of being a well rounded student, the odds of someone getting an athletic scholarship and becoming a college or professional athlete are slim - whereas anyone who attains a certain GPA can get a scholarship in Florida.

And the "life lessons" taught by sports are the same lessons taught by other competitive extracurriculars.

I find it appalling that you are justifying this by saying kids go to school for the sports. Kids go to school because our society has decided they have to be educated for the good of our country. If it was all puppies and lollipops, we wouldn't have truant officers and attendance requirements.

scooty - I don't want to speak for mdd. my understanding of the poster's statement that some kids go to school just for the sports - is NOT what we want but it is what it is for some. at least it keeps some kids IN schools throughout HS which is a motivating factor for them. no one agrees that school is about sports or ever should be. but it is one aspect - in some but not all schools. if sports programs are offered they need to be quality and offer a lot of opportunity for growth and development and learning, responsibility, commitment, health and on and on. for some children, sports make a very big difference in their lives. not that the school is even responsible for offering sports but I think its good that some do offer quality sports programs.

never should education programs be minimized in any way because of school sports programs. but if a child stays in school because he likes to play football, then good for him. hopefully he will learn to read in the process. going to college on a scholarship (this is only one possible outcome from playing sports out of many good ones) is going to take some academic skill. and yes - plenty of kids go to college on scholarship due to their skill in sports (boys and girls - TONS of them play softball and do so many other sports in addition to football, basketball, etc)... I had not realized the level of scholarships offered to so many throughout the state of Florida alone for their skill and involvement in sports. my niece is a softball player who is just entering highschool but she already knows she will be on scholarship at a particular college. just about anyone with her level commitment is almost guaranteed. its really great stuff. (she doesn't go to school BECAUSE of sports though. all kids are different. I would hope for all kids to go to school because its what they want to do but I know children are as different as adults in their motivations, pursuits, etc).

 

[GoodWitch58]

Certainly did not mean to appal anyone. I was just commenting that a number of kids are only motivated to come to school, study, make good grades, etc., so they can participate in sports and other extra-curricular activities. And, I certainly do not want to imply that other extra-curricular activities don't teach life lessons or character. They do and we should support them. Remember too, that in Florida a kid can legally drop out after their 16th birthday. I am not endorsing that reality, it is what we deal with however.

Again, there are opportunities for scholarships in athletics for players and other folks even if they don't necessarily play. Frankly, I think we shortchange kids in music programs. We have not always supported them in a manner to prepare those kids to attain scholarships for the performing arts. I believe that is slowly changing and I hope our budget difficulties do not interfere with that change.

I love sports. But, I understand that they are there to help, never supplant good education. And, I truly believe that all extracurricular activities, when done right, contribute to a child's education.

As for the reading curriculum. It has changed. The FCAT tests reading for limited content. By that I mean, a passage is presented to the test taker, and he is asked to regurgitate back to the exam certain specific concepts in the passage. The passages themselves tend to be what you and I would consider "technical" type writing. Thus, we teach kids to read that way. Read a passage, pick out a certain specific concept and repeat that concept back to the examiner. Reading for overall themes, critical thinking about what the passage is about, are not ever discussed. The person is taught to read, but, not really taught to understand what they are reading and the overall meaning of the words. Its like learning to read in a vacuum. I hope I explained it okay. When kids get to college, especially those who have not taken advanced placement and honors classes, they struggle sometimes with understanding how to read and interpret a passage. I know, its weird, but again, the reality we are dealing with these days.

There are so many examples of this. When I first started working as a tutor for English and Writing three years ago, two of my first students were twin sisters who had graduated with honors from their high school--not Walton County, but Florida--I did not know this about them; and after working with them on their first essay for English 1101 class, I exclaimed: "how on earth did you two get out of high school with this level of writing and punctuation?"
They were devastated because they had always gotten As and Bs and had no idea they could not write well or punctuate a sentence.

I was appalled.

Over the course of the next year and a half, I discovered (just as you have indicated) they could score a perfect 100 on a test on punctuation --but they could not punctuate the sentence they had written, and they couldn't write it very well either.

I have found the same true in almost every subject my students have: literature, western civ, ethics, psychology, religion...where ever they have to write
a paper, they are completely lost...but, on the standardized test, most do okay.

So, what are we teaching these students? Certainly not critical thinking skills; they can not comprehend what they read; they have no understanding of the correlation of literature to religion or history or ethics...
they can't analyze a poem because they don't have the background from literature to understand the references...history is completely lost on so many.

It is sad. As we have worked our way through what amounts to me "re-teaching" them to read and write; they say to me: "Why didn't I learn this in high school?
No one ever explained this to me before? Why did I waste all that time memorizing?"

It is IMO the students who are losing out...and by extension our entire society.

I am happy to say that my first two students, the twins, worked very hard. They essentially had a "do-over" with high school English at the same time they were doing college English. It was twice as difficult as it should have been; but, they are smart...they could have learned it in high school, if that had been what they were being taught; and it is my opinion that all the students are smart enough to learn...it's just a matter of what is being presented and what the expectations are...if it's to pass the FCAT, then, they can do that; if it's to learn to read and write critically, they can do that--but they do not learn to think and write critically, when they are only being taught and expected to memorize to pass a test.

The twins are now at FSU and doing well--last weekend when I saw them they said yes it was hard; but, it was easier because now they knew how to write--and they each laughed and said, "and we know our grammar too."

So, Are the funds for athletics and academics completely separate?

I think there is a place for sports certainly; but, scholarships aside, I feel we are putting much too much emphasis on sports at the expense of the academics...I guess I don't understand what has happened: We used to have both and both were pretty good. These days, we have more money to spend, yet, the entire system seems lacking. I am not sure where the money goes...certainly isn't to teachers' salaries!

 

[Teresa]

so is the TEST keeping teachers from teaching reading? or do teachers now have to teach a child to read in a certain way in order to be successful on a certain TEST? is this another horrible outcome of basing everything on a child's education on learning a certain TEST? this is what is appalling to me.

no matter where your child goes to school I guess it is more and more evident that you as a parent must read with your child every single day til he's 20. its really going to be up to the family. which isn't a bad thing overall - but it is not practical for so many children and families to do this at home.

 

[GoodWitch58]

Tootsie,

I don't know -- I am just seeing the student coming into college without the basic skills in reading and writing beyond the most elementary. And, these students are students that, for the most part, got good grades in high school and scored well on placement tests...

I am not against sports, but I truly believe if there was as much emphasis on debate and brain bowl as there is on football, then our country would see a much different level student and graduate...

it's not just here in Walton County--there is a wide gap in the education of our students and students from many other places in the world.

 

[scooterbug44]

I still don't understand this whole "teaching to the test" issue.

If they are "teaching to the test" doesn't that mean they are still somehow LEARNING what they are being tested on? I am just not understanding how you can prepare a student to pass a test, yet they don't know anything it tested them on. (Likewise I don't understand how you pass a skills test, yet do not possess those skills.)

Tests are nothing new - I had to take annual state standardized tests, take the PSAT, the SAT/ACT, and I took AP tests in various subjects. Our teachers prepared us for the tests, but they were teaching us general knowledge, background, and test taking skills because there was no way of knowing exactly what would be on the test.

The idea was that while they couldn't predict exactly what was on the test, they could give us enough knowledge and skills so that whatever we were tested on, we would do okay.

In the case of AP English, that meant we had to write at least one essay a week to practice and read a variety of books, plays, poems, etc. In the case of AP History, we had extra lectures and weekend study sessions. AP Calculus meant more homework and an accelerated pace so that we finished the entire textbook before the AP test.

And we all did this in addition to our various sports, extracurriculars, jobs, etc.

 

[Lynnie]

With all due respect I truly can not figure out how the school board is out of money after how much they collected from 2000 to 2007 alone.

Where does it all go? free lunches? transportation? lost by bad investments? over spent on building? paying for legal defense?

I'm glad you brought this up. Schools across the nation are faced with tremendous cut backs because they expanded and spent during 'fat years' of increased property values just like everyone else. This creating a sense of entitlement even within the school systems. School budgets and bureaucracy for that matter are 'use it or lose it' and if they lose it, they believe they won't get the same or increased budgets the following fiscal year. This thinking has unequivocably backfired.

Schools are largely funded by property taxes. In City of Atlanta, a newscaster, Brenda (I forget her last name) essentially just chastised all of us who have complained, practice the appeal process and contest our property taxes because they are ridiculously expensive.....yet, we have experienced decreases in overall services and more furloughs to come. Obviously, the City, as have many cities and counties, overspent during the fat years and did not properly budget. This newscaster stated to bone up and pay higher taxes so teachers aren't laid off ........or shut up.

I agree that extracurricular activities should be more of a cost sharing with the participating families. Cutting reading coaches, math, science or english and social studies teachers should be the last resort.

But, municipalities having taxing authority. Just raise taxes!

 

[GoodWitch58]

I still don't understand this whole "teaching to the test" issue.

If they are "teaching to the test" doesn't that mean they are still somehow LEARNING what they are being tested on? I am just not understanding how you can prepare a student to pass a test, yet they don't know anything it tested them on. (Likewise I don't understand how you pass a skills test, yet do not possess those skills.)

Tests are nothing new - I had to take annual state standardized tests, take the PSAT, the SAT/ACT, and I took AP tests in various subjects. Our teachers prepared us for the tests, but they were teaching us general knowledge, background, and test taking skills because there was no way of knowing exactly what would be on the test.

The idea was that while they couldn't predict exactly what was on the test, they could give us enough knowledge and skills so that whatever we were tested on, we would do okay.

In the case of AP English, that meant we had to write at least one essay a week to practice and read a variety of books, plays, poems, etc. In the case of AP History, we had extra lectures and weekend study sessions. AP Calculus meant more homework and an accelerated pace so that we finished the entire textbook before the AP test.

And we all did this in addition to our various sports, extracurriculars, jobs, etc.

SB,

I am not sure I can explain it either...and, had I not experienced it with my own eyes/ears, with dozens of students in the course of an academic year, I might not believe the problem exists either.

My school experience, many years before yours, was similar to yours. We were prepared in a general way, to pass the necessary tests...that seemed to be a by-product of our education...not the product. When we learned the material, it was fairly simple to pass a test on it.

I thought these students just had somehow slipped through and that they really didn't know the material and wouldn't be able to pass a test on it...I was wrong.

I gave them repeated standardized tests, to see where they were needing help--and they demonstrated on the test that they knew the material, but they can not write or punctuate properly...in an essay.

Maybe someone can explain it...I think it would make a very amazing doctoral study.

 

[mdd88jd]

Typically, although I won't opine "always," the kids that go through AP, IB or honors classes will learn those critical thinking skills. However, kids in the regular education course will not get those skills. It is truly an example of teaching to the test. The test is very specific in terms of what it is expected and that is what is generally taught. Remember, we are talking reading here. Many people equate "reading" with the literature classes they had in high school. Two very different animals.

Also, the writing part of the FCAT does not grade spelling, punctiation or syntax. It only grades organizing thoughts in response to a writing prompt.

We have tried in our district to avoid this teaching the test mentality. The results are varied to say the least and usually depends on the principals desires to score high on the FCAT grading system.

The coaches supplemental pay and the district's contribution to the officiating costs and the teams' travel costs comes out of the same pot as the other "academic" matters, such as teacher's pay, instructional materials, etc. Most, and in some cases, the all of the remaining athletic costs come from gate receipts and fundraising.

M

 

[mdd88jd]

so is the TEST keeping teachers from teaching reading? or do teachers now have to teach a child to read in a certain way in order to be successful on a certain TEST? is this another horrible outcome of basing everything on a child's education on learning a certain TEST? this is what is appalling to me.

no matter where your child goes to school I guess it is more and more evident that you as a parent must read with your child every single day til he's 20. its really going to be up to the family. which isn't a bad thing overall - but it is not practical for so many children and families to do this at home.

or do teachers now have to teach a child to read in a certain way in order to be successful on a certain TEST?

That is what I havve been trying to explain. Yes, that is a perfect way to describe the FCAT reading and writing tests.

 

[scooterbug44]

That is weird - my experience as a tutor was that they didn't know the concepts and so couldn't utilize them, but once you worked with them and had them practice, they learned it and (taking into account learning issues) could then pass quizzes and tests on it.

Sounds like they are being taught the concept and know it, but can't actually utilize it.