Maybe I am a bit too cynical, but cold weather shelters?

[Smiling JOe]

It seems to be a common argument these days for government spending that the amounts spent are "trivial." I heard a liberal the other night describe 400 million dollars as trivial and the next night heard 3.3 billion described as a minorl amount. That thinking is called the slippery slope. We will never solve our spending and deficit problems until we realize that every dollar of taxpayer money is a public trust and must be spent wisely.

That said, there are legitimate functions of government that must be funded and we should make sure are provided with excellence. Public safety (police, fire. ambulance. military) have always been considered functions of government. And the Cat 5 hurricane is a catastrophe and needs a government response due to the occurance being unusual and the number of victims being huge. Freezing weather is a yearly occurance and the services needed are only for a very small percentage of the population. Charities can provide those services better and more efficiently than government.

So you really don't have a guess as to how much it is costing tax payers to open have a cold weather shelter open tonight in Defuniak Springs? If it isn't a trivial amount, surely you must know just how much it is costing taxpayers. If you don't know, how can you suggest that it is or isn't trivial in amount? You are making assumptions.

If you are saying that we should leave it to the charities to provide the cold weather shelter, perhaps you can inform us which charity has a cold weather shelter open tonight in Walton County.

You mention that gov't shouldn't be involved in something that occurs yearly such as cold weather. The gov't has things such as cots for those unusual occurrences like a hurricane, so why not get your money's worth and use them also for the occasional occurrence like extremely cold weather?

 

[idlewind]

So you really don't have a guess as to how much it is costing tax payers to open have a cold weather shelter open tonight in Defuniak Springs? If it isn't a trivial amount, surely you must know just how much it is costing taxpayers. If you don't know, how can you suggest that it is or isn't trivial in amount? You are making assumptions.

If you are saying that we should leave it to the charities to provide the cold weather shelter, perhaps you can inform us which charity has a cold weather shelter open tonight in Walton County.

You mention that gov't shouldn't be involved in something that occurs yearly such as cold weather. The gov't has things such as cots for those unusual occurrences like a hurricane, so why not get your money's worth and use them also for the occasional occurrence like extremely cold weather?

You missed the point. I do not know if it costs 1 dollar or 1 million. But if you use taxpayer dollars no amount is trivial. A dollar wasted on operating a huge building as a shelter for one or two people is a dollar that could have been spent on paving roads or buying school supplies. People need to understand that tax dollars are not infinite, there is a limited supply. Therefore we must set priorities and demand efficiency so that we get the most bang from each dollar.

 

[beachmouse]

I also don't like the idea of religious based charities deciding who gets what after a disaster.

The Scientologists are getting heavily into the disaster relief game. There are any number of reasons why this is not an ideal thing.

 

[idlewind]

I started a long post. But, I agree with some of what has been said. We first need to address the tax system. I know this sounds strange coming from a liberal like me, but, the federal tax code needs to be simplified. The federal tax code needs to encourage investment and savings, not spending. Our current tax code encourages families to take on debt that many simply cannot afford. The state tax code needs to become more uniform. There are way too many exceptions to the state sales tax code. And, I am not talking about food and basic necessities here. I am personally aware of an attorney with the Florida Department of Revenue who, along with others, spend their entire day reviewing patent applications for medical instruments to determine whether their sale is exempt from sales taxes or not. Doesn't that seem too cumbersome? Once we simplify the state tax code, I firmly believe that you will have a steady source of revenue to attack the problems we face.

I disagree about a failed juvenile justice system. I believe it has failed, but, not because we tried to help those kids, but, because we are simply warehousing them and and punishing too many as adults. Often for the very drug crimes discussed earlier.

I also disagree that a vast majority of our public school are out of control. Frankly, it is the opposite. A small minority are without discipline and they get all of the headlines. I believe, after 15 years on the school board and trying a variety of other solutions, that the only way to create a world class education system is to attract outstanding college students to go into education. How do you do that? With very competitive pay, we could attract better students to colleges of education versus what we are attracting now. We can debate the numbers, but, it will take money. And, I have no problem with doing away with tenure and create a performance based system to supplement pay, but, only after we substantially raise pay to attract those better students.

Again, just thoughts. Do I have all the answers? No. But, I think government can be part of the solution and not always just the problem. In order for that to happen, we have got to quit sound biting everything to death and start talking in a meaningful way about how to accomplish the goals. My real concern is that we, as a culture, have not even discussed, what those goals should be in our country.

Don't apologize for lengthy posts, I for one enjoy reading what you have to say. While I do not always agree, I usually learn something and have an opportunity to refine my thoughts. I honestly did not think about the healthcare cost aspect of shelters but once I read your post the theory makes sense. I truly believe that one of our biggest problems is that we talk at each other instead of opening our minds and listening to others. Too many think they know everything and have no need to listen to others.

When I said the juvenile system is failing, I meant that all we do is warehouse and do little or nothing to try and change behavior. The reverse is true for our mental health system. Some people need long term housing and are even dangerous on the streets.
While I am no expert on the education system, I see what we are producing and see alot that we fall short of. It seems that the students are segregated early on into advanced classes for college prep and basic classes for the rest. That is ok except that, if we realize the basic kids are not going to college, then we should begin to prepare them to enter the workforce. Too many of these kids are totally unprepared to exist in the workplace and I see this as a failure of the education system. The advanced kids probably are OK but what we seem to teach the basic kids is how to pass a test. Passing tests is not a big emphasis in the workplace.

I do agree that educating our young is second only to public safety as the priority of society. Teachers are woefully underpaid and, if what I am told is true, need large increases in the amounts spent on supplies and technology. We may be missing opportunities in education by trying to teach kids who play advanced games all night with 1970's era classrooms.

I too do not have the answers but understand that we will not find them if we do not communicate.

 

[mdd88jd]

I totally agree with you about the schools and the students. For the most part (at least in this part of the country and I think it is true all over), the students are eager to learn; want order in the schools; and yearn for more education. Most teachers (I have three in my family) work tirelessly to guide students through their education process.

Many teachers pay for supplies from their own pockets; give students money for food; and one of my family members regularly buys clothes for the students in her classroom. Salaries for teachers need to be more competitive; and money for school supplies and textbooks needs to be increased.

We have our priorities all out of balance and it is true as a country we have not had a meaningful conversation about what we want our country to be.
Too many people watch too much "entertainment television" and take what they hear as fact...and then repeat that "fact" every opportunity they have, to the point where they believe their own stories...

You are right. Most teachers, vast majority, work extremely hard under difficult circumstances. We can do better for them.

 

[mdd88jd]

Idlewind, so much of what you say about education is true. We have not, even something as important as education, defined what we really want the system to do. Do we want public education to produce college bound students, vocationally skilled kids, teach life skills, citizenship skills or do we want all of the aforementioned. (my lawyer word of the night). I have a theory that society wants the system to do all of those things. But, our culture is not really interested in funding the necessary buildings, teachers, school leaders, supplies, etc. For instance, the most expensive per student expeditures for a school is our vocational school. It is very expensive and we are limited to the number of programs we can offer. Again, we need to have an open conversation of what we want and how we want to accompish what we want.

Having managed a juvenile justice facility, I agree with your assessment...The system is dysfunctional at best.

 

[Matt J]

Did anyone notice wrobert side walk surfing? Just want to know so I can write that check.

 

[Kurt]

The Scientologists are getting heavily into the disaster relief game. There are any number of reasons why this is not an ideal thing.

Seriously? Do their plans include space vessels?

 

[beachmouse]

At this point, the Scientologists are largely passing out bottled water and offering 'counseling services'. They do legitimately do some good- John Travolta was flying relief supplies to Haiti earlier this year, but their whole for-profit bigger business model makes me uncomfortable in terms of how they're setting up vulnerable people in more affluent areas than Haiti to be exploited through said counseling services.

 

[scooterbug44]

I didn't leave my plants outside last night. I think humans in our community should at minimum deserve the same level of care as my house plants.