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Bob Hudson

Beach Fanatic
May 10, 2008
1,066
739
Santa Rosa Beach
Diane

I worked for 30+ years for the Boy Scouts of America an organization that is truly about family and its employees were small in number and a very tight knit "family group".

I resent your statement that "numbers type" people do not understand "family". That is stereotypical thinking and does not recognize that one size does not fit all. You obviously do not know me or what I am about.

Your post also seems to indicate that my posts are posts for the Walton County Taxpayers Association and they are not. When I post under my name Bob Hudson those posts are my thoughts and only my thoughts. I am no longer the President of that organization nor am I a member of their board of directors. They have an login on Sowal entitled "WCTA". That login is only available to the President and Bonnie McQuiston is the President. I am still involved with the organization doing certain technical type of analysis for them as well as maintaining their website at their direction - they control the content - I simply do the HTML work for them.

THE WCTA has for 29 years had "cost saving" measures as just one of its stated objectives. And they have had representatives at most if not all of the pension board meetings and SWFD board meetings as the budget process in not only the SWFD organization, but every taxing authority in Walton County. Your statement that the WCTA should have a concern for cost saving proposals is a red herring as their history and track record are proof of just the opposite.

Yes - you are free to post in any thread you choose, but this thread was about the negotiations between the FF union and the SWFD board.
 

beachFool

Beach Fanatic
May 6, 2007
938
442
Bob

You are welcome to make a copy of the 10/1/2010 actuary's report I had when I was on the pension board.

I don't know why they are not available as PDF files for the public.

To repeat, you can find nothing about the actuary's report being based on participants living to age 109.
 

Diane

Beach Comber
May 11, 2009
26
9
Bob,

That's wonderful regarding your 30+ years with an excellent organization; then I'm sure you do understand about our feelings of a bond and family that Henry and I have mentioned. It runs deep. Ok, I'm stereotypical in my thinking (it's justbeen my experience) and you are correct, I don't know you and I have already stated that and you don't know me either.

I thought you were affiliated with the WCTA, you are listed on their website as their Executive Director. Didn't know exactly what that entailed, now I do. I said earlier that the WCTA can only address the problems they are aware of, they cannot address what they don't know and there is lots they do not know; not through any fault of their own, they are just not always told or are aware of where taxpayer money is being spent or misspent, as the case may be. That is just my opinion, which I am entitled to.

Yep, I'm free to post and I happen to know lots of people who are reading this thread, not just for negotiations or pension purposes.
 

Henry Apfelbach

Beach Lover
May 14, 2011
61
13
Your statement that the WCTA should have a concern for cost saving proposals is a red herring as their history and track record are proof of just the opposite.

How is what Diane posted a red herring? I believe that she means WCTA should have a concern for all possible cost saving proposals. I think you guys do have a concern and I don't think she was trying to draw your attention away from the "man behind the mirror".

Bob, I know you had to leave early but I was wondering if you were able to get a copy of the counter proposal we gave back to management? If not I'd be more than willing to email you a copy. It's in the same format as the last one. If you want some explanation on what each proposal means let me know I can explain it easier via Phone or in person as some of it might have some jargon related to it.

Diane, Miss ya. I hope all is well these days.
 

Diane

Beach Comber
May 11, 2009
26
9
Hi Henry,

You are right again! No, the thought of posting a "red herring" never crossed my mind, I was not trying to divert attention away from anything, I'm just once again telling the honest truth, as I know it. The layoffs were mentioned in this thread and I voiced my opinion. Scooterbug addressed one of my postings and I responded to him/her. I will continue to do that as I see fit.

Miss you too and lots of other friends at SWFD! All is well for me and life goes on, thankfully!!
 

Andy A

Beach Fanatic
Feb 28, 2007
4,389
1,738
Blue Mountain Beach
Twenty one years is al long time and twelve is nothing to sneeze at. My question is was there any retirement attached to either lay off? I really feel there was somewhere else they could have found a reduction in spending but I am admittedly second guessing.
 

Bob Hudson

Beach Fanatic
May 10, 2008
1,066
739
Santa Rosa Beach
Why is it a red herring - because it states a position that the WCTA has no interest in all cost savings proposals. The statement is actually false in its premise and fact.

"Your statement that the WCTA should have a concern for cost saving proposals is a red herring as their history and track record are proof of just the opposite."

Pardon me for taking offense to that, but they spend countless hours pouring over audited financial statements, proposed budgets, expense approval reports, attended so many meetings that they have lost count, answered thousands of phone calls and emails and driven thousands of miles to try and understand the story behind the numbers. All "free" to those who are interested, but supported by those that believe a true service is provided.

The thread is about union proposals that potentially save the district over 800,000. "Numbers people" tend to be "show me people- trust but verify people" and if that is a fault in them I'm guilty as accused.

I believe in what the WCTA mission statement is very strongly. I defend them when people make statements about what they do and are about that are uninformed about their purpose and methods of operation

Although I feel for those affected by the layoffs - they are a fact of life in this day. Florida has a 10.8% unemployment rate. Do I like it - no. Is it a fact - yes. Those 10.8% of the workforce are a reality today.

If I post something - it has a verifiable source to back up what I said. Can others draw a different conclusion from the same data - yes. Thats why they make Chevrolets and Fords. Different conclusion based on the data they have to determine which car to purchase and drive.

I will gladly debate the conclusions, but don't drag an organization that is engaged, reviews the data provide and make recommendations as being "uninformed or not caring".

Once again these are my thoughts and do not necessarily represent the thoughts or opinions of the WCTA. Only the President speaks for them after the Board of Directors has voted to take a certain position.

Brian Flannagan was out sick again yesterday and I was therefore unable to get a electronic copy of the actuarial study. Buz Livingston has offered to provide a printed copy and I will take him up on the offer on Monday if I am unable to get a EC by then.
 
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Diane

Beach Comber
May 11, 2009
26
9
Hello Andy A,

I was not a member of the retirement/pension plan that is being discussed. Civilians who work for the Fire District cannot join the plan, only firefighting personnel, which includes all Chiefs, since they are technically "firefighters". I never really got involved with their pension plan and don't know all the facts regarding that matter, but I'm hoping Henry Apfelbach will respond to your question. I was, however, a member of their Deferred Compensation plan (similiar to an IRA), which I contributed to and the District also contributed to, which I greatly appreciated. The Local 3516 (the Union) is currently presenting revisions to the pension plan which could save the District a considerable sum of money. Sean Hughes, the former Deputy Chief who was also laid off, could have possibly been a part of the "early out" and would have been entitled to retirement. At least that is my understanding. Henry can explain that in more detail also as I really don't have enough knowledge to speak regarding that subject.

There were many reductions in spending that could have been taken before laying off two long term employees. I have my opinion on why it was done the way it was, but no one has really answered my questions. I addressed those questions regarding cost saving measures at the last Fire Board meeting in May, but they were received with complete silence, which is typical and I was not surprised.

Thanks for your question!
 

Diane

Beach Comber
May 11, 2009
26
9
Good Grief, this is what I said: "I said earlier that the WCTA can only address the problems they are aware of, they cannot address what they don't know and there is lots they do not know; not through any fault of their own, they are just not always told or are aware of where taxpayer money is being spent or misspent, as the case may be. That is just my opinion, which I am entitled to." I specifically said that if they (WCTA) doesn't know something, how can they address it? Unless you actually work for one of our government agencies or quasi-government agencies, you can't possibly know where some money is being what I call "wasted". You keep saying that I said the WCTA is uninformed and not caring. I keep repeating that they can only be informed if they are told the truth; otherwise how would they know?

For heaven's sake, I wasn't picking on the WCTA, I'm sure they do a fantastic job with what they are informed of. I have personally met the President, and think she does a wonderful job and devotes many hours to trying to watch spending of various agencies. I do admire your dedication and defense of the WCTA, I always felt the same way about the Fire District; but there is always room for improvement. I am a taxpayer in this community and there are issues I am concerned about.

Anyway, take a moment to chill out, I'm going to the beach - it's a beautiful day in South Walton!
 
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