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Bob Hudson

Beach Fanatic
May 10, 2008
1,066
739
Santa Rosa Beach
I would suggest you read the press release again. There is nothing misleading about the two questions.

WCTA members were asked two very simple questions by the Board of Directors.

They were not asked whether they personally supported the tax or toll. They were asked whether the WCTA should support a "Tax Increase" and if the Tax failed should they support a "Toll"

The response from them speaks for itself.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
I would suggest you read the press release again. There is nothing misleading about the two questions.

WCTA members were asked two very simple questions by the Board of Directors.

They were not asked whether they personally supported the tax or toll. They were asked whether the WCTA should support a "Tax Increase" and if the Tax failed should they support a "Toll"

The response from them speaks for itself.

The problem with the poll is the same problem with this referendum. We vote no on the tax and we get a toll which is what FDOT wants. A toll is a slap to your face tax to every Walton County business and citizen living and working in this county. FDOT will once again achieve their primary objective which is to build another toll bridge. This is political. This is an abuse of power. We should have an opportunity to vote on the toll.
 

Andy A

Beach Fanatic
Feb 28, 2007
4,389
1,738
Blue Mountain Beach
While I don't agree this is political, I certainly think the WCTA was biased and wrong in their assessment of the toll and tax issue. Their members belong to the WCTA because they think they are overtaxed in this nation. I don't disagree with that but as with most issues you must look a the specifics of the situation. The WCTA leadership saw fit to mislead and misinform their membership about the bridge issue. Instead of pointing out both sides and letting the membership then decide, they chose to use the no new tax dialogue as "education" for their members.

Let me say this loud and clear. I don't like wasted and unnecessary taxes! Taxes are needed, however, to run all facets of our goverment, local, state and federal. Our choice becomes one of those that will promote our desires and needs and those wasted on friviolous uses. This is one that would further our destiny and the WCTA was remiss in not educating their membership on both sides of the issue. VOTE YES ON MAY 8TH.
 

Bob Hudson

Beach Fanatic
May 10, 2008
1,066
739
Santa Rosa Beach
Andy

Please give me some examples where the WCTA mislead and misinformed its membership on this issue.

Its easy to make statements - now its time to back yours up.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
Just speaking from "main street" Walton County:

No. 1. We have waited and waited and cooperated and cooperated for years and years for a four lane road between the bridge and I-10.

No. 2. We would like to have a new bridge completing 4 lanes over the bay.

No. 3. Our economy has been hit very hard over the last few years from unscrupulous financial institutions creating the housing crisis to criminal oil drilling corporations polluting our environment like has never been seen before (both beyond our control or causation). We can not afford another dollar to pay for this bridge neither should we have to as it will not bring in one more penny to this county other than a very limited number of pennies from the construction years.

No. 4. We do not fully understand the consequences of voting No to the referendum as there are powers that can still tax toll us which will be much worse than the .5% tax. A No vote should be a NO vote for any form of tax.

No. 5. What we really want is for one or more of our elected officials to do the right thing for this county. Please find a way to get us this needed road and if you can also get us a bridge without any tax that would probably get you elected for as long as you so desire.

No. 6. If you can not find a way sad is that may be then please explain to us why voting Yes to the sales tax is best for all of us.
 

lazin&drinkin

Beach Lover
Apr 13, 2010
174
154
Andy,


I think you unfairly accuse the WCTA leadership by saying they chose to mislead and misinform the membership on the bridge. Similarly, I think you might wish to re-think your belief that the leadership has a responsibility in this case to point out both sides and let the members decide. The members did decide the position, by the way.


The leadership voted to oppose the original proposal of the bridge absent a 331 commitment. You will recall this was out of the blue. Walton officials had asked FDOT to consider our cost-sharing in widening 331, but the FDOT response was not responsive to that offer, instead pressing the Governor's preferences of high visibility projects, bridges (tolled) being his ideal outcome.


The County reached out to the WCTA leadership for help, and as you are aware, that help was readily given. Assurances were made by Secretary Prasad in the ensuing Tallahassee meeting, assurances which have subsequently been shown to be false in some cases. The most salient of those is the matter of the toll and its potential local discounts. Yes, we could have those and Mr. Barfield was directed to furnish those post-haste. Yes, FDOT had plenary authority in this. Neither turned out to be in accord with reality. WCTA leadership enthusiasm for the new proposition was replaced by disillusionment and disappointment.


"Facts" propounded by County representatives at public information sessions proved to be erroneous, including the FDOT contribution, said at a meeting in Miramar Beach by Bill Imfeld to be 177 mil or some such number, which number was actually the putative total of both state and local contributions, with the local contribution stated separately and correctly by Bill as 75 mil. Another was that the new bridge would be on the west side of the existing one. We know these to be false statements. It matters not that they were in the first case no doubt innocent mistakes and in the latter of unknown provenance. The simple fact is that the information furnished by state and county was wrong on multiple fronts.


Organizations like the Chamber of Commerce had no studies, no projections of specific, if putative, economic impact, nor did the state. If they have such, they continue to keep them secret from the rest of us. One might infer that were such studies in hand, they would have been publicly trumpeted by advocates. The silence speaks loudly. This has been a priority for decades, we are told repeatedly. If so, where is the due diligence?

What purpose would be served by WCTA leadership pointing out the obvious, i.e., everyone believes there will be real but unknown and unquantified benefits if we accede to this demand by the State? How does an unknown weigh in the balance? A fair assessment would, I think, conclude that presenting that information is the responsibility of our government and our economic development organizations. The WCTA purports to be neither.


If organs of the state and of the business community, with all the resources they possess, do not have this information to share, how can one expect a group such as the WCTA to quickly come up with such information? That leadership is a very small group of volunteers, not only unpaid but also not reimbursed individual expenses incurred in carrying out the work of the organization. With a handful or two of people actually trying to serve as taxpayer advocates and as watchdogs for good government, with $10 a year dues, what is reasonable to expect this single digit number of citizen advocates to do?


Constraints of time, money, and human resources mandate that the leadership try to select what it believes to be those few projects which are the most important and at least possibly doable. Setting forth facts which do not exist is not one of those priorities, nor should it be.


That table having been set and a number of members, dues-paying but not active in the WCTA, having objected to the original position of the leadership being taken without any input from members, the leadership of the WCTA elected to poll its members on what position the WCTA should take in this matter. There was no unanimity of opinion in the leadership, and the subsequent poll likewise demonstrated no unanimity. What the poll did show was that the overwhelming majority of members responding wanted neither tax nor toll, and that number represented about 1/3 of the total membership.


In such a situation, Andy, what do you think responsible leadership should have done? The WCTA leadership believed that following the mandate of its membership was appropriate.


The WCTA leadership does strive to inform its members, but it must in the end rely on those members to be intelligent, educated citizens willing to do their duty as citizens and do their own due diligence, in effect relying on members to emulate you. It is said that a man's got to know his limitations, and that aphorism may be validly applied to organizations. The WCTA simply does not have the resources to do what the State, the County, and the Chamber of Commerce have not done.


Absent those resources, the leadership, having found both County and FDOT information to be unreliable and plastic, refuses to make up stuff and refuses to parrot information from in part unreliable official sources. Neither the leadership nor the membership of the WCTA suggests that bridge and road are undesirable and lacking in value. Only a fool would suggest that there is no inherent value or economic benefit to be derived. Quite the contrary. What is being voiced is a verdict on the means and timing, both being judged deficient. The FDOT and the County have imposed a sudden, unexpected crisis-reponse situation on voters and organizations, and the WCTA objects.


Another sales tax makes our bed tax collectors even less price-competitive than our neighbors. Where are the studies showing that these already discriminated against private property owners will not be unduly harmed by this tax? At the margin, they are indeed likely to be harmed, and that economic harm will ripple in the local economy. How much? Beats me.

I do believe that a re-assessment of the TDC and its tax and spend fiefdom should be an antecedent of any further burden on these private property citizens. Why are we not levying the same bed tax on others who benefit from tourist dollars? Restaurants and a host of other businesses in effect get a free ride on the backs of these real property owners. Why are we giving so much money to Southwest Airlines from those bed tax dollars? There is a whole set of issues that beg for consideration in this particular milieu, and they have not been afforded that little luxury. In sum, the tax-toll issue needs to be explored more systematically than has been done.


There is a case to be made, and advocates have failed to advance a reasonable, comprehensive plan. The law of unintended consequences lurks.

We have inadequate infrastructure for the tourist loads we have today. How are we to deal with a bigger funnel leading to the same spout, emptying into the same bowl on either end? Similar questions could be asked with no particular plan in evidence for dealing with the problems this project would impose.

Benefits to be had? Absolutely! Problems inherent? You bet! As a discerning citizen, I expect a more comprehensive argument than strike while the iron is hot and costs low (in relative terms). And by the way, FDOT here--please ignore those statements I made to you on behalf of the State when they prove untrue.


This is still America, thanks in no small part to men such as you, and the voters will have the final say on the tax. One side will win and one will lose in the ballot proposition. Should the tax pass, time to move forward. Should it fail, the ball will be in the court of the BCC, whether for good or bad I suppose depending on one's perspective.


At the end of the day, the proposition will come to pass or not, but life will go on. Like you, I believe we have an enduring obligation to our successors in life. Honest men and women laboring honestly for their differing views of the moment will ultimately produce a good outcome, fulfilling our obligations to our fellow man. Which of us is to say that his course is the one true path in matters political? Not I.

We can honestly and honorably differ, and having done so, we're likely to come to a better solution than either of us would come up with on his own. Thank you for your honest and honorable participation. I personally look forward to participating with you in trying to make Walton a better place for all of us. I respectfully submit you have overlooked some things in making your accusations.
 

BeachSteelers

Beach Fanatic
Feb 18, 2006
473
48
Seagrove
Why can't we just add 2 cents to gas sold in the County. The money stays local as opposed to going to Tallahassee before maybe it makes it back to us as a toll or tax increase would. FL counties have this option. Seems too simple. Gas users should bear the burden of road and bridge construction. But before any option I request an Audit of State Gasoline tax revenue. By my estimates there's plenty of money for bridges and roads nationwide. quick stat check says nearly 400 MILLION Gals/day times that by an avg of almost $.40 state and Fed taxes= $160 Million/day times 365 and I think it's quite a lot of money. Anyone think $58 Billion/yr or so ought to be enough for our roads and bridges?
 

Andy A

Beach Fanatic
Feb 28, 2007
4,389
1,738
Blue Mountain Beach
This is the last I am going to say on this issue. The vote is tomorrow and I hope all will participate whether for or against. County leadership, in all areas is wrong and the WCTA is right, according to them. It is normally a very dedicated organization but in this case, I believe personalities with certain agendas took over instead. Bob, please don't ask me to explain as I will not, but you know of what I speak and lazin&drinkin long dissertation above to explain your position does one other thing. It also explains why others, such as me, have the stance we do. I vehmently disagree with the WCTA position in this case. I am tired of stating why I feel as I do and will vote according to my feelings, though because of the actions of those such as the WCTA, it will be in vain with regard to this issue. There has not been the time nor the effort and ability to educate the electorate on this issue. I'll end by making a prediction. The referendum will fail. Within three years a toll bridge will be started to cross the bay and everyone except the State of Florida will lose, especially the citizens of Walton County.
 

Andy A

Beach Fanatic
Feb 28, 2007
4,389
1,738
Blue Mountain Beach
Andy

Please give me some examples where the WCTA mislead and misinformed its membership on this issue.

Its easy to make statements - now its time to back yours up.

I will recant on the poor choice of words. The lack of reasoning for their stance and lack of education as to their position and why, I will maintain, though.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
I really hope Andy is wrong on his prediction (however I am not holding my breath). I hope the voters have asked enough questions that will explain what voting no on the sales tax referendum actually means. Hopefully this self education will convince enough voters that voting yes to the referendum will both ensure a new bridge and road and NO TOLLS! A vote no will create another taxing agency for Walton County businesses, services and anyone just wanting to go to the beach...
 
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