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Kurt

Admin
Staff member
Oct 15, 2004
2,233
4,925
SoWal
mooncreek.com
Question: Has the Walton County Road Department ever designed and constructed a roundabout? I guess there is always a chance of beginner's luck.

There are specific guidelines from FDOT about how to build a roundabout - http://www.dot.state.fl.us/TrafficOperations/Doc_Library/PDF/roundabout_guide8_07.pdf
Professional engineers will design and oversee construction.

Here are your choices:
1. do nothing, traffic at the intersection gets worse every year.
2. add traffic light, delay during heavy traffic would increase.
3. build a roundabout.
4. reduce number of cars and traffic.

A roundabout may not be a perfect solution. A high volume of pedestrian and bike traffic requires special attention to design. The current intersection is plenty dangerous now for people on bike and on foot. The current intersection is also difficult for folks trying to get out of driveways, and pulling in and out from parking across from Seagrove Market.

I have used good roundabouts. The key is to make it large enough, and place crossovers for pedestrians well away from the circle. Having only three roads there is much better than having to deal with 4, and should mean the circle can be smaller.

Normally all bikes would share the circle but since we have our awesome bike path we'll route it around. Having it cross as far away from the circle as possible will be key.

Some circles can be elongated in one or more sections if there is room. We are lucky that it is a relatively safe, low-speed intersection. If it wasn't then we'd likely need a stoplight which would back traffic up further. Seagrove Market and V Seagrove make it extra challenging.
 

Lake View Too

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2008
6,862
8,298
Eastern Lake
As long as the circle is wide enough to accommodate eighteen-wheelers, and if the problem with the four driveways is resolved, and, most especially, if the bike path is moved to a location far enough from this intersection, it would seem to be a possibly adequate solution. I haven't yet heard details that would ease my reservations. My biggest concern is that the designers would assume that bicycle traffic would merge gracefully with vehicular traffic, and that just isn't going to happen. They can draw painted bike lanes all they want, but they can't educate the multitudes as to how to use them.
 

Kurt

Admin
Staff member
Oct 15, 2004
2,233
4,925
SoWal
mooncreek.com
As long as the circle is wide enough to accommodate eighteen-wheelers, and if the problem with the four driveways is resolved, and, most especially, if the bike path is moved to a location far enough from this intersection, it would seem to be a possibly adequate solution. I haven't yet heard details that would ease my reservations. My biggest concern is that the designers would assume that bicycle traffic would merge gracefully with vehicular traffic, and that just isn't going to happen. They can draw painted bike lanes all they want, but they can't educate the multitudes as to how to use them.

Yep - big trucks have to be taken into account for sure. I think planners know what types of vehicles use the road. Why would you think that the bike path would be eliminated at that intersection?

As it is now I am always nervous and looking out for people on bikes there. So often people ride on through without stopping or dismounting. If you're headed west and turning north you can't see bikes. Drivers are focused on their turn and not looking for bikes.
 

tsutcli

Beach Fanatic
Jan 14, 2008
921
109
Seacrest
There are specific guidelines from FDOT about how to build a roundabout - http://www.dot.state.fl.us/TrafficOperations/Doc_Library/PDF/roundabout_guide8_07.pdf
Professional engineers will design and oversee construction.

Here are your choices:
1. do nothing, traffic at the intersection gets worse every year.
2. add traffic light, delay during heavy traffic would increase.
3. build a roundabout.
4. reduce number of cars and traffic.

A roundabout may not be a perfect solution. A high volume of pedestrian and bike traffic requires special attention to design. The current intersection is plenty dangerous now for people on bike and on foot. The current intersection is also difficult for folks trying to get out of driveways, and pulling in and out from parking across from Seagrove Market.

I have used good roundabouts. The key is to make it large enough, and place crossovers for pedestrians well away from the circle. Having only three roads there is much better than having to deal with 4, and should mean the circle can be smaller.

Normally all bikes would share the circle but since we have our awesome bike path we'll route it around. Having it cross as far away from the circle as possible will be key.

Some circles can be elongated in one or more sections if there is room. We are lucky that it is a relatively safe, low-speed intersection. If it wasn't then we'd likely need a stoplight which would back traffic up further. Seagrove Market and V Seagrove make it extra challenging.

What about when Hotel Viridian is built? I heard they were going to have underground parking. That would seem to be a source of a lot of extra traffic getting onto and off 395. Have the traffic engineers and designers anticipated this?
 

Joyce Owen

SoWal Staff
Oct 8, 2007
168
7
SoWal.com
I've wondered if the bike path could stay on the south side of 30A? I never understood why it was routed to the north side just past the old Wheelhouse site. That crossing has always been something of a challenge for cyclists and walkers to use and for drivers as well.
 

tsutcli

Beach Fanatic
Jan 14, 2008
921
109
Seacrest
I've wondered if the bike path could stay on the south side of 30A? I never understood why it was routed to the north side just past the old Wheelhouse site. That crossing has always been something of a challenge for cyclists and walkers to use and for drivers as well.

My guess would be that when the Wheelhouse was there the parking was in front, perpendicular to the rest., and the cars would block any bikepath. That was always problematic since traffic had to stop so parked cars could back out onto 30a. with limited line of site given the extra large SUV's typical in the area.
 

Joyce Owen

SoWal Staff
Oct 8, 2007
168
7
SoWal.com
It would be safer, IMO, to have the path stay on the south side, but I imagine there are other issues even now that there is no parking along that area. Every crossing creates its own set of hazards, but if, at the intersection of 395 and 30A, bikes and pedestrians were on the south side - there would be no waits to cross, no near misses because they wouldn't be crossing the street.
 

Lake View Too

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2008
6,862
8,298
Eastern Lake
The bike path was moved to the north in that section, I think, mostly because the homeowners in that area, many of whom have owned their property since the fifties, have very little property left (especially after Dennis ate their south lawns away). It just seemed right to move it to the north to accommodate them and to tie into Seaside which had already constructed pedestrian facilities on north side.
 

Lake View Too

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2008
6,862
8,298
Eastern Lake
I think the possibility of the bike path going through the roundabout would only work if the bike path was oriented as a separate "spoke", not a parallel "quasi-roadway" as it is now. Even then, the incredibly slow start it takes a bicycler to get going from a complete stop would present problems with them merging with the vehicular traffic. A roundabout only works if the traffic keeps flowing with relatively few complete stops. I would like to see the county contemplate moving the bike path away from this intersection, even if they don't proceed with the roundabout. It just seems like the smart thing to do.
 

Lake View Too

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2008
6,862
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Eastern Lake
I read the guidelines to building a roundabout from the link Kurt put up a couple posts back, and it contained exactly one paragraph on bicycle traffic. Here's the quote:

"4.14 BICYCLE AND PEDESTRIAN DESIGN CONSIDERATIONS
According to the Draft “Florida Bicycle Facilities Planning and Design Manual”, no special
markings or lanes are generally needed in the roundabout to accommodate the bicyclist. On
approaches which have bicycle lanes, the lane should end and permit a merge during the last 22 -
30 m of the approach. Although separate paths have been used in some high volume roundabouts,
that would be a special design feature."

I read this to mean that they want all bicycle traffic to merge with the vehicular traffic before entering the roundabout. I'm not sure this is even feasible, let alone, desirable.
 
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