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Danny Glidewell

Beach Fanatic
Mar 26, 2008
725
914
Glendale
The Civil War was fought because of secession. The underlying reason, for the Confederacy wanting to secede from the Union, was they could not accept the abolition of slavery. One of the underlying reason for that does get into the financial reasons that the southern plantation owners did not think they could produce a sufficient profit if they didn't use slavery as their "engine" of commerce. But the declaration they put in their Cornerstone wasn't about economics; it was about their fundamental belief that the Negro was inferior and deserved to be a slave.

The Cornerstone of the Confederacy is about as far away as you can get from "All men are created equal and they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, and that among them are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Treason is a strong word, but when you forcibly rebel against the prime principle upon which this country was founded, I guess it fits.

History is rarely simple and the causes of the Civil War are complex. Anyone who says slavery did not play a major role is in denial or uninformed. However, the issue was not abolishing slavery in 1860. Not one of the 4 major candidates for President in 1860 ( Lincoln, Douglass, Breckinridge and Bell) campaigned to abolish slavery, the issue was expansion into the western territories. The balance in the Senate was the desire of the South as they could never achieve balance in the House. If slavery was not allowed to expand into the west then the Senate would be lost as well. Should this occur, then eventually the abolitionists would have been strong enough to move against slavery. Tariffs were also a big issue. The large tariffs the national government passed to protect Northern industry harmed the Southern economy, which depended on exports, particularly cotton.
There is no denying that most Southerners looked down on persons of color. This was true in the North as well. These attitudes carried on into the 20th century. While the South had Jim Crow, don't forget some of the worst violence about busing and integration occurred in Boston. Other Northern cities had similar problems.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,288
1,799
The Civil War was fought because of secession. The underlying reason, for the Confederacy wanting to secede from the Union, was they could not accept the abolition of slavery. One of the underlying reason for that does get into the financial reasons that the southern plantation owners did not think they could produce a sufficient profit if they didn't use slavery as their "engine" of commerce. But the declaration they put in their Cornerstone wasn't about economics; it was about their fundamental belief that the Negro was inferior and deserved to be a slave.

The Cornerstone of the Confederacy is about as far away as you can get from "All men are created equal and they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, and that among them are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Treason is a strong word, but when you forcibly rebel against the prime principle upon which this country was founded, I guess it fits.

Lake View Too, You were a very good student in your history studies. That is exactly what the history books say about the Civil War. Unfortunately it is not "entirely" true. Northern wealth and power was decreasing while Southern wealth and power was increasing. The North was determined to make this about slavery because it had been know since our forefathers that it was wrong but in order to serve the purpose of "succession" from Great Britian it was allowed and thus Benjamin Franklin changed a few words to "self evident" instead of "sacred and undeniable". This war was about power and money at the expense of human life. The North was more motivated to end this imbalance of power rather than to end slavery even if it meant that hundreds of thousands would die. Our government was founded with the injustice of slavery justified.

You are entitled to believe what you want whether it is right or wrong so please by all means go sign the petition and sleep better.
 

poppy

Banned
Sep 10, 2008
2,854
928
Miramar Beach
Poppy, most of the time you are reasonable even if I disagree. But every once in a while you go over the top and this post is one of those times. Have awful things been done in the name of Christ? Yes, that could be said for just about any institution you can think of. But the teachings of Christ have absolutely nothing to do with bigotry or discrimination, in fact just the opposite. The core teaching of the Christian faith is to love God first and then love your neighbor as yourself. Or, said another way, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The world would be a vastly better place if we all lived by those simple rules.

That is the teachings yes, but many Christians are not listening.
 

Misty

Banned
Dec 15, 2011
2,769
752
Or, said another way, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

If that's the case would you take a copy of the Koran and place in it a Jewish synagogue and demand they respect the Islamic faith? If not, then why is our government doing unto others what they would not want done on the Courthouse lawn?
 

Danny Glidewell

Beach Fanatic
Mar 26, 2008
725
914
Glendale
That is the teachings yes, but many Christians are not listening.

True, the bible also says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Everyone makes mistakes, that is just part of being human. There is also a passage that says that at the judgement many will claim to be followers of Christ and will be proven false. I can say I am a millionaire, that does not mean I am one. ( far from it LOL)
Being a follower of Christ certainly does not mean you are perfect either. Lord knows I mess up daily. But being a follower means you have asked for forgiveness and will try to do better.
 

Zebraspots

Beach Fanatic
May 15, 2008
840
247
Santa Rosa Beach
Personal opinions and historical interpretations of the Civil War and that flag's meanings vary, but there is no question that in this day and age that flag is an internationally recognized symbol of racism and hate.

Yes, a few genuinely fly or display that flag because they are proud of a family veteran or history, but most do so because they oppose equality, advocate racial purity, and want to intimidate or remind minorities of their proper place. Many of the flags currently being removed or debated were put up to protest the Civil Rights Movement and the federal government, not after the Civil War.

That is the flag of lynching, Neo-Nazis, and the KKK, and it is not okay to fly it on public property. You can display it if you wish, but the government should not be doing so.

Removing the flag will not magically end racism, but it is definitely a step in the right direction.
 

poppy

Banned
Sep 10, 2008
2,854
928
Miramar Beach
True, the bible also says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Everyone makes mistakes, that is just part of being human. There is also a passage that says that at the judgement many will claim to be followers of Christ and will be proven false. I can say I am a millionaire, that does not mean I am one. ( far from it LOL) Being a follower of Christ certainly does not mean you are perfect either. Lord knows I mess up daily. But being a follower means you have asked for forgiveness and will try to do better.

I was born in 1951 and grew up going to church in a large southern city. I witnessed first hand the way good Christians treated their fellow man if his skin was a different color. I never had a black school mate, never saw a black person in our church, our local fair even restricted "coloreds" to a single day during it's ten day run. My father took me to an event at the auditorium where the blacks had to enter a separate door leading to the balcony with a curtain strung up to keep them separate from the whites. My mother would go to the laundromat with the "whites only" sign on the door. There were separate bathrooms, water fountains, and waiting rooms I wasn't supposed to use. This was in a city lead by good Christian men reading the same bible you are now quoting from so please spare me the sermon.
 

Leader of the Banned

Beach Fanatic
Apr 23, 2013
4,095
6,092
Personal opinions and historical interpretations of the Civil War and that flag's meanings vary, but there is no question that in this day and age that flag is an internationally recognized symbol of racism and hate.

Yes, a few genuinely fly or display that flag because they are proud of a family veteran or history, but most do so because they oppose equality, advocate racial purity, and want to intimidate or remind minorities of their proper place. Many of the flags currently being removed or debated were put up to protest the Civil Rights Movement and the federal government, not after the Civil War.

That is the flag of lynching, Neo-Nazis, and the KKK, and it is not okay to fly it on public property. You can display it if you wish, but the government should not be doing so.

Removing the flag will not magically end racism, but it is definitely a step in the right direction.

It won't end racism, but it will end government expression of racism.
 
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