Amending Ordinance to Ban Signs, Ropes, Fences on the Beach

[Bob Hudson]

Danny

The state statute states :

(b) If the offender defies an order to leave, personally communicated to the offender by the owner of the premises or by an authorized person, or if the offender willfully opens any door,

Notice it says the "personally communicated by the owner or "authorized person".

The Sheriffs SOP states it must be by the "property owner".

Why does that not contradict the statute ?

 

[steel1man]

In case you haven't seen this demand letter from State Parks System?

If you are doing set ups at Deer Lake State Park see the attached notice. As per previous conversations, customer must be present at time of delivery and delivery must be at the customer convenience. As always no driving on the beach, Please call me if you have any question.


Thanks,


Matthew R. Allen, Park Manager

Grayton Beach State Park


Notice to all Vendors


All goods and services delivered to Grayton Beach and Deer Lake State Parks for paying guests must be delivered to and received by the Park guest. Delivery must be during business hours between 8:00 a.m. to sunset daily. No goods or services are allowed to remain on the beach after sunset. All State Park rules and regulations apply to vendors and Park guest.


Park Management

 

[Danny Glidewell]

Danny

The state statute states :

(b) If the offender defies an order to leave, personally communicated to the offender by the owner of the premises or by an authorized person, or if the offender willfully opens any door,

Notice it says the "personally communicated by the owner or "authorized person".

The Sheriffs SOP states it must be by the "property owner".

Why does that not contradict the statute ?

It doesn't contradict the statute but it places a stricter standard in place than the statute. It is sort of splitting hairs and I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is legal as far as I can see. I am sure the FSA attorneys have vetted it six ways from Sunday since they carry the Sheriff's liability insurance and bond. The property owner in theory could document the incident and carry it to the State Attorney and request a direct file of an indictment but that is rarely done in practice.

 

[Bob Hudson]

I believe it denies the property owner due process by "requiring the owner to physically be present" as it omits an option available under the statute.

This SOP is 85% of the problem IMO.

 

[FoX]

Surely the sheriff has rescinded the SOP and not reqiiring homeowners put up signs and fences?

 

[Johnny Z]

Danny

The state statute states :

(b) If the offender defies an order to leave, personally communicated to the offender by the owner of the premises or by an authorized person, or if the offender willfully opens any door,

Notice it says the "personally communicated by the owner or "authorized person".

The Sheriffs SOP states it must be by the "property owner".

Why does that not contradict the statute ?

If anything, the Sheriff is being too accommodating to the beach-front property owners by accepting a current survey showing the mean high tide line. This shows title, but does not take account of the public's right of Common Usage, which is a limitation on the property owner's right. Surely these owners realized that they were buying property that fronted a beach that the public has long used. The Sheriff's policy seems overall wise and designed to reduce civil friction. It also gives cover to the property owner who might otherwise be sued for punitive damages under the tort of Malicious Prosecution. My own observation is that our beaches are very lightly used for most of the year, and that in the summer it is nice to see people enjoying it with their families.

 

[gailforce]

What about marking property from MHWL? If it's 50 feet out in the gulf right now, no one can put up any kind of 'marker' in the water. The sheriff created an unenforceable SOP.

 

[steel1man]

They must produce a "Yearly"Survey if they have it ( doubtful)and your north of the southern boundary just move on...If they don't tell them and Barney Fyffe your ok....

 

[Danny Glidewell]

Another example of

I believe it denies the property owner due process by "requiring the owner to physically be present" as it omits an option available under the statute.

This SOP is 85% of the problem IMO.

Since the property owner has a remedy I do not think due process is denied. There is no guarantee of arrest in this instance. But I do not like the SOP because it is overly complicated for both the officer and the property owner. I prefer the Okaloosa SOP myself but that is just a personal opinion,

 

[Bob Hudson]

What is that remedy ?

According to the SOP he/she must be physically present.

I thought the Sheriff swore to uphold the laws of the State of Florida. Seems your saying he is free to pick and choose which laws of the state he enforces.