More Beach Driving Permits

[FloridaBeachBum]

I still believe in customary use. If you don't that is fine. I am wondering why more people who claim property rights aren't knocking down the dunes and driving on it or building on it for that matter. Oh wait, government regulates that. I have no issue with government enforcing rules/ laws on the beach with relation to customary use. So the government seems to have a lot of latitude as to the beach.

Bob, yes the government and Walton County BCC has police power, too much police power IMO, to regulate how to use private property and everything else BUT not WHO can use my or your private property. The Constitution protects that individual right in America. Big difference.

Walton does not have the authority to permit any private individual to drive on my or your private property - including private beach vendors recently. It's never been a custom from time immemorial for private use to drive on private property either. The TDC does not have the right to drive on private property without consent either for that matter.

 

[Bob Wells]

Bob, yes the government and Walton County BCC has police power, too much police power IMO, to regulate how to use private property and everything else BUT not WHO can use my or your private property. The Constitution protects that individual right in America. Big difference.

Walton does not have the authority to permit any private individual to drive on my or your private property - including private beach vendors recently. It's never been a custom from time immemorial for private use to drive on private property either. The TDC does not have the right to drive on private property without consent either for that matter.

Look, these are my opinions/ beliefs. I am more than willing to allow the Courts to decide and move on from there. I know one individual involved in the lawsuit and respect him immensely, but disagree with his stance. I suppose the difference with me over some posters to this site is my opinion is not the only that matters and I try not to get butt hurt when others disagree but am certainly not afraid to throw my opinion out there.

 

[FloridaBeachBum]

Look, these are my opinions/ beliefs. I am more than willing to allow the Courts to decide and move on from there. I know one individual involved in the lawsuit and respect him immensely, but disagree with his stance. I suppose the difference with me over some posters to this site is my opinion is not the only that matters and I try not to get butt hurt when others disagree but am certainly not afraid to throw my opinion out there.

You are entitled to your opinion as are we all. Just pointing out why you are wrong IMO about driving on private property and customary-take.

"I am more than willing to allow the Courts to decide ..." But it could be $40 to $50 MILLION Walton taxpayers dollars, according to Comander (Oct 2016) plus the owners legal fees if BCC lose, to find out in the courts if customary-take is a violation of the Constitution. Is that how you want to spent all our tax payer dollars? Don’t bring up economic benefit of customary-take, that is not a historical criteria to justify customary-take. In fact the benefactor of custom shall not profit from use of private property. Regardless of customary-take it would still not justify driving over private property anywhere.

 

[Bob Wells]

You are entitled to your opinion as are we all. Just pointing out why you are wrong IMO about driving on private property and customary-take.

"I am more than willing to allow the Courts to decide ..." But it could be $40 to $50 MILLION Walton taxpayers dollars, according to Comander (Oct 2016) plus the owners legal fees if BCC lose, to find out in the courts if customary-take is a violation of the Constitution. Is that how you want to spent all our tax payer dollars? Don’t bring up economic benefit of customary-take, that is not a historical criteria to justify customary-take. In fact the benefactor of custom shall not profit from use of private property. Regardless of customary-take it would still not justify driving over private property anywhere.

And sometimes that is how the answer will be found. If for some reason the courts side with my opinion over yours will that make your opinion/ belief wrong? As I said my feelings won't be hurt if the courts rule against my belief/ opinion, but I will certainly have a definitive answer that I can live with. Instead of speculation from what I will suppose is a "Forum Lawyer".

 

[FloridaBeachBum]

And sometimes that is how the answer will be found. If for some reason the courts side with my opinion over yours will that make your opinion/ belief wrong? As I said my feelings won't be hurt if the courts rule against my belief/ opinion, but I will certainly have a definitive answer that I can live with. Instead of speculation from what I will suppose is a "Forum Lawyer".

Bob, you did not answer the question; in your opinion should the BCC be willing to spend $40M to $50 MILLION Walton tax payer dollars on customary-take litigation as a good use of all Walton tax payer’s money? Given all the other infrastructure priorities.

Especially given that claimant of custom cannot “profit” (I would say take value from) another's private property. Do your homework on the many hundreds of custom doctrine; don’t take my "Forum Lawyer" word for it. Information is power. Theriaque legal opinion is not objective and a disservice to the BCC and has enriched himself in his disservice. He gets paid $0 if he recommends that the BCC not pursue customary-take and $425 and hour and to date 4 lawsuits to spend Walton tax payer's money on if he does.

I understand you, Danny, and Dave R are all for spending TENS? of MILLIONS of other people's (Walton tax payer) money litigating customary-take; but is that the best use of all Walton tax payer's money? Remember economic benefit is not a criteria for a claim of custom.

 

[Bob Wells]

Bob, you did not answer the question; in your opinion should the BCC be willing to spend $40M to $50 MILLION Walton tax payer dollars on customary-take litigation as a good use of all Walton tax payer’s money? Given all the other infrastructure priorities.

Especially given that claimant of custom cannot “profit” (I would say take value from) another's private property. Do your homework on the many hundreds of custom doctrine; don’t take my "Forum Lawyer" word for it. Information is power. Theriaque legal opinion is not objective and a disservice to the BCC and has enriched himself in his disservice. He gets paid $0 if he recommends that the BCC not pursue customary-take and $425 and hour and to date 4 lawsuits to spend Walton tax payer's money on if he does.

I understand you, Danny, and Dave R are all for spending TENS? of MILLIONS of other people's (Walton tax payer) money litigating customary-take; but is that the best use of all Walton tax payer's money? Remember economic benefit is not a criteria for a claim of custom.

As I said, it is for the courts to decide. If our elected officials decide to bail on this issue, I think there will be problems in the future as this issue comes back. As I said, not a firehouse lawyer or a lawyer of any sort. That being said, I have put my name to my opinion. Unfortunately this forum is not going to settle this issue and you, unless you are part of the team litigating this issue, aren't going to win the case here. You do seem to have your talking points down, I have or think I have, seen you post something similar multiple times. As for spending taxpayer money, part of the tax base here, so my money is in there.

 

[FloridaBeachBum]

As I said, it is for the courts to decide. If our elected officials decide to bail on this issue, I think there will be problems in the future as this issue comes back. As I said, not a firehouse lawyer or a lawyer of any sort. That being said, I have put my name to my opinion. Unfortunately this forum is not going to settle this issue and you, unless you are part of the team litigating this issue, aren't going to win the case here. You do seem to have your talking points down, I have or think I have, seen you post something similar multiple times. As for spending taxpayer money, part of the tax base here, so my money is in there.

Bob, you Danny and Dave R talk big but how confident of your positions are you? Everyone has an opinion. Would you spend your own money to defend your position? You like the commissioners have no skin in the game but are willing to risk the other tens of thousands of tax payers million$ but not your own money. Unlike the private property owner groups in four lawsuits, and counting, have to spend many many thousands of dollars each to defend their property rights from the BCC gamble with tax payer's money.
The BCC and you risk very little because it’s not your MILLIONS but the tax payers millions. Would you, Danny, Dave R, and each commissioner be willing to put up $10,000 bond EACH to reimburse the property owners should they prevail? Property owners will have to spend many thousands to defend their property rights. Until you are, your opinion doesn’t have as much weight as property owners who will have to spend their hard earned money against people who risk nothing but their opinion.
Talking points? You bet as long as you, Danny, and Dave R put out inaccurate information to incite the majority I will point out your fallacies. Have your facts ready if not your pocket book.

 

[Bob Wells]

Bob, you Danny and Dave R talk big but how confident of your positions are you? Everyone has an opinion. Would you spend your own money to defend your position? You like the commissioners have no skin in the game but are willing to risk the other tens of thousands of tax payers million$ but not your own money. Unlike the private property owner groups in four lawsuits, and counting, have to spend many many thousands of dollars each to defend their property rights from the BCC gamble with tax payer's money.
The BCC and you risk very little because it’s not your MILLIONS but the tax payers millions. Would you, Danny, Dave R, and each commissioner be willing to put up $10,000 bond EACH to reimburse the property owners should they prevail? Property owners will have to spend many thousands to defend their property rights. Until you are, your opinion doesn’t have as much weight as property owners who will have to spend their hard earned money against people who risk nothing but their opinion.
Talking points? You bet as long as you, Danny, and Dave R put out inaccurate information to incite the majority I will point out your fallacies. Have your facts ready if not your pocket book.

I have only expressed what my belief is. I believe that the beaches should be for everyone. Confidence has nothing to do with it. Those elected officials were elected to represent Walton County Residents. Whether you or I like this legal battle is neither here nor there, it is a decision that has to be determined. I put my money where my mouth is because I haven't sold my properties and moved from this county. I don't feel the need to to take a 10k bond to reimburse anyone. As for the property owners as I feel you continue to point out they will be reimbursed should they win. FloridaBeachBum, because I feel this is fixing to go where you will continue to get more frustrated and dissolve into an angrier back and forth I will be avoiding sharing on this thread. I appreciate your post, and have seriously considered what you have said. I am just a firefighter paramedic, I don't even go to the beach unless called to go, I post under my real name because it only fair everyone knows my positions and who they are from. See FBB, if I saw your name and recognized it as a Florida Supreme Court Justice or a Judge that specialized in these types of cases, I may be persuaded, but that is not the case. I see an individual who seems passionate about this and is willing to throw challenges and opinion out there. Although there are quite a few subscribers to this site out there, I would venture you are only reaching a minority of SoWal. That being said I still believe in customary use. Have a good day.

 

[FloridaBeachBum]

That being said I still believe in customary use. Have a good day.

Thanks Bob. The point is you, Danny, Dave R and BCC etc keep pointing out that Theriaque and the courts will settle customary-take; and the courts will, but us private property owners do not get a choice and have to spend multi-many thousands of dollars, plus the property taxes we pay, and all of Walton county tax payers will have to pay, to litigate for our rights against the BCC and people who feel as you do, but without the risk property owners have to make with their hard earned money.

The question was, is the $40 to $50 MILLION, BCC and Comander are willing to spend litigating customary-take good use of Walton tax payers dollars? And if so why? What if property owners prevail?

Me and many of the property owners I know are passionate about protecting our property rights - rights so precious that they are codified in the USA Constitution.
That may come across as anger to you and others against private property rights but it is not. I am frustrated by the unsubstantiated arguments about custom you, Danny, Dave R, and BCC make based on how you feel and not on historical legal facts of custom over many hundreds of years, then want Government to spend tax payers money millions to litigate customary-take. With no risk to our own hard earned multi-thousand$ of dollar$. That’s what frustrates me and other property owners.
See you around the forum. Good day to you as well.

 

[pandramae]

How about getting rid of the "grandfathering," and have a fresh lottery each year but reduce the amount of permits issued. Give everyone a chance. I have as much to lose or gain with this process, but when I don't get drawn, I'm okay with it. That gives others a chance to have their time at the beach. It would be nice if more access was available to locals to park or at least a shuttle that would take folks and all of their chairs, coolers, etc.