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BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,305
386
@Bob Wells and @enfuego , you could not be more incorrect regarding your comments regarding the lifeguards' REFUSAL to comment to me on the drownings that took place less than 24 hours earlier in Grayton Beach. They looked like classical deer on the road with headlights in their eyes. I'm not sure they would have even pointed out which way Grayton Beach was if I had asked in the same line of conversation. They were kids who looked very worried that I was asking too many questions. Again, in hindsight, they were reacting exactly as they probably had been trained to do.

And I don't have a problem with that.

Bob, I am surprised that you won't confirm that it's standard policy for SWFD including lifeguards NOT TO comment on issues like this, especially right after they occurred (ongoing investigation, autopsy and so on), for liability reasons. If it's not standard policy then there should be a shake-up in the ranks.

With that said and going back to the topic at hand - beach flag system and $500 penalties .....

Remember the flesh eating bacteria drama? The good side to all the hype was that if one had an open cut or a deficient immune system they would think twice about going in the water because of all the information that was being disseminated (myself included). And that did not cost anybody one single dime in "fines". On the flip side, there were a lot of concerns regarding lost tourism all over Florida.

How do you try to prevent the general public from doing stupid things besides implementing fines? You "scare" them by INFORMING them as above. On the other thread as I showed, Okaloosa County openly releases the details of all drownings to the press who then publishes it for the world to see.

The point of commenting on this thread and the other thread is that, IMHO, Walton County swept this drowning under the sand. Again nothing was posted on SWFD Facebook Page. And I still find it very curious that no journalist picked up on the story.

The conspiracy theorist in me (and it's not just my opinion BTW as one can probably guess), believe the threat of losing an almighty tourist dollar (with bad news such as this) trumps the public's need to be informed. Call a drowning a drowning and maybe people will understand that they could be next if they use bad judgement.
 

Dave Rauschkolb

Beach Fanatic
Jul 13, 2005
1,006
790
Santa Rosa Beach
Because, technically, a surfboard is a flotation device. Plus, under double reds, surfers will most likely have on the leash.

Walton County ordinance requires surfers and bodyboarders to have a leash attached in order to enter the water on red or double red flag conditions. We (surfers) were involved in this language being entered into the ordinance. I believe, in addition to teaching the public about the flag system and rip currents and what to do if in one, the public should be taught to only enter the water under these conditions if you have a body board or surfboard attached with a leash. Meaning you start the communication to the public with that information. "Only those people with boards and leashes may enter the water in red flag conditions." This accomplishes a very important element of safety. People will be extremely less likely to drown with a stable floatation device attached to their arm or leg. Less likely to panic if they get caught in a rip current and less likely to panic if they get a mouthful of water. Panic is the killer. "Only those people with boards and leashes may enter the water in red flag conditions." These words should be all that is needed to communicate the rules...anyone else is fined heavily if they enter the water without a board and leash. Simple.

I have been surfing 42 years all over the world and I have never witnessed a person drown, not once with a leash and board attached to their body. This is the rule in Hawaii and it is strictly enforced. You can educate the public with one sentence. Simple. The simpler the rule and communication, the more effectively it is implemented perpetuated into the local culture. People tell each other: "Only those people with boards and leashes may enter the water in red flag conditions." Simple. The below information should have the the above sentence front, center and first. It says it all and I believe will save lives.

Something for the County to consider: I HAVE MODIFED THE FLAG COMMUNICATION BELOW TO INCLUDE THE WORDS: "Water Closed to Swimming. Only surfers and body boarders allowed in the water with leash attached."


SAFELY ENJOY OUR SOUTH WALTON BEACH
BEACH FLAG COLOR WARNING SYSTEM

Double Red Flag - Water Closed to Swimming. Only surfers and body boarders allowed in the water with leash attached.

Red Flag - High Hazard. Water closed to Swimming. Only surfers and body boarders allowed in the water with leash attached.

Yellow Flag - Moderate Surf/Currents
Green Flag - Calm Conditions
Purple Flag - Marine Pests Present

https://www.visitsouthwalton.com/beach-safety/
 
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Dave Rauschkolb

Beach Fanatic
Jul 13, 2005
1,006
790
Santa Rosa Beach

Not to be critical of the standard but I think this is part of the problem. I'm sure great thought and deliberation brought them to the standard but perhaps the standard should be reviewed.

I'd like to know the ratio of swimmers who drowned in red flag conditions compared to double red flag. Words like "discouraged" and "take great care" are not strong enough. If people are ignoring the language and still drowning there is a problem. They are endangering themselves and others who may drown trying to save them. Entering the water puts them in great peril.

  1. 5.2. Red–Highhazard.Roughconditionssuchasstrongsurfand/orcurrentsare present. All swimmers are discouraged from entering the water. Those entering the water should take great care.
 

Bob Wells

Beach Fanatic
Jul 25, 2008
3,380
2,857
I can remember when beach flags were different and changes were made to fall in line with a standard. Personally I think having a standard system rather not having one is best. Obviously having double red flags don't keep people out, and closing the water on single reds probably won't stop people from swimming.
I will share a story though to drive home a point. I worked a drowning call many years ago and as we were doing what we were suppose to do we had people walking around us going into the water. I am talking CPR, IVs, Airways and preparing to move this patient from the beach and people are walking around us into the water. If someone who has drowned laying on the beach isn't a deterrent to some folks then flags and tickets probably won't either.

Not to be critical of the standard but I think this is part of the problem. I'm sure great thought and deliberation brought them to the standard but perhaps the standard should be reviewed.

I'd like to know the ratio of swimmers who drowned in red flag conditions compared to double red flag. Words like "discouraged" and "take great care" are not strong enough. If people are ignoring the language and still drowning there is a problem. They are endangering themselves and others who may drown trying to save them. Entering the water puts them in great peril.

  1. 5.2. Red–Highhazard.Roughconditionssuchasstrongsurfand/orcurrentsare present. All swimmers are discouraged from entering the water. Those entering the water should take great care.
 

bob bob

Beach Fanatic
Mar 29, 2017
723
422
SRB
To a human animal, Red means Stop. Danger.

Double Red means Stop Stop, Danger Danger.

Maybe we need a triple RED.

:spin:
 

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,305
386
I'd like to know the ratio of swimmers who drowned in red flag conditions compared to double red flag.
And the number of those who drowned under a YELLOW flag like on July 3rd, 2018?....as in a false sense of security. Then on the flip side, I've seen RED flags fly on many occasions when the surf was not rough...kind of a "wolf wolf" situation. There seems to be a blurry line between YELLOW and RED.

I will admit that when I've seen DOUBLE RED flags flying, they were appropriate for the most part.

Bottom line, one cannot depend on the flag system for safety. To me, the flags are an official suggestion - sometimes right and sometimes wrong. And for a government entity which intends to impose a $500 penalty for flag "violations", they should be very aware that more scrutiny regarding which flags are flying where will be directed at them. Of course they could always err on the cautious side but that will just upset tourists who may not be allowed in the water and create again a wolf wolf situation in which the flags are simply ignored.

To be honest, I'm glad I'm not the one deciding which flag(s) to fly.

Question to anyone who may know: Are ALL the beach flags on any given day the same regardless of location?
 
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