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FactorFiction

Beach Fanatic
Feb 18, 2016
494
409
Interesting distinction on property rights. If the theory is correct that the beaches should be for all and not private, then the real beef is with the people who sold the beaches in the first place. It's pretty clear that those original sellers (government, early developers) believed the beaches were theirs to sell. All of this bashing and class warfare is just causing more discontent and less liklihood that those who have deeded access will want to share IMO. It keeps everyone all riled up. If both sides focused on encouraging peaceful, respectful, environmentally friendly behavior, we might get somewhere.
 

kayti elliott

Beach Lover
Feb 19, 2014
151
87
34
Freeport
Then my friends and I should be able to chill on the beaches behind the multi-million dollar homes of famous people in places like Malibu and Martha's Vineyard, right?
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
FBB, I agree with you about the lack of respect in discussing this issue. I admit to having to reach down deep to find respect for people who are not honest about who they are and what they represent. I have to reach down even further to find respect for some wealthy person explain that there are winners and losers in this world and the losers just want what the winners have. You seem like a respectful and reasonable person but if you are not aware of this attack on The People (local government, community, society) then you must be disconnected from the working class (those that get dirt under their fingernails) and what is left of the middle class (those that pay a higher tax percentage of income than any other class). Yes, it is hard to be respectful when someone is yelling and screaming about property rights, entitlements and punishments for those that use the beach (any beach) when this has nothing to do with any of that. The subject is the beach or coastal sandy shoreline and not a property owners back yard. It is accurately stated as the "shifting sands" in this thread. Yes, there is a problem with any deed that gives anyone ownership to the MHWL because it is not a fixed point. Blame it on whatever floats our boats literally but the deeds are incorrect. You can bring up all the property rights BS you want but we are NOT talking about a loser's entitlement to use someone else's property. All I am saying is be aware of why people get riled up about this stuff.

Yes I agree that the description of the property in these deeds have legal ramifications. I believe the county got it right with their approval process in their negotiations with St. Joe which allows for a public easement along the beach. I believe that the recent court ruling in favor of the county is hope that this lawsuit will be resolved without involving the issues of customary use or exclusive use in property rights. If the county is successful then these deeds should be modified to allow this public easement on Walton county coastal sandy shorelines. Of course this is wishful thinking on my part.

You mentioned you side with those that keep bringing up the right to exclusive beach use by private owners adjacent to the coastal sandy shoreline. I would disagree with you on both moral and legal grounds. I already explained my legal opinion and admit that it may be wishful thinking. So morally speaking IMO wealth is defined by a control of resources and the gap that exists in the distribution of those resources. The People (working class, middle class) are working just as hard as any BFO who wants exclusive control of this resource. So, I must ask you if you believe that wealthy BFO's worked harder and should be rewarded with exclusive beach use over The People? You don't have to answer my rhetorical question because I respect your personal opinion. Many people believe that economic success is determined by working harder than the competition. I wish that were so but capitalism has been corrupted by a too big to fail, corporate entitlement and tax loophole advantages in our economic system. Trying to justify these advantages is normal human selfishness but will not serve any other purpose. There is a value in human life that goes beyond personal economic success and it links us all together to the very beginning of life which happened in these same tidal zones. No this is not about our property rights. This is about a human purpose that is rooted in the success of life itself.
 

FactorFiction

Beach Fanatic
Feb 18, 2016
494
409
FBB, I agree with you about the lack of respect in discussing this issue. I admit to having to reach down deep to find respect for people who are not honest about who they are and what they represent. I have to reach down even further to find respect for some wealthy person explain that there are winners and losers in this world and the losers just want what the winners have. You seem like a respectful and reasonable person but if you are not aware of this attack on The People (local government, community, society) then you must be disconnected from the working class (those that get dirt under their fingernails) and what is left of the middle class (those that pay a higher tax percentage of income than any other class). Yes, it is hard to be respectful when someone is yelling and screaming about property rights, entitlements and punishments for those that use the beach (any beach) when this has nothing to do with any of that. The subject is the beach or coastal sandy shoreline and not a property owners back yard. It is accurately stated as the "shifting sands" in this thread. Yes, there is a problem with any deed that gives anyone ownership to the MHWL because it is not a fixed point. Blame it on whatever floats our boats literally but the deeds are incorrect. You can bring up all the property rights BS you want but we are NOT talking about a loser's entitlement to use someone else's property. All I am saying is be aware of why people get riled up about this stuff.

Yes I agree that the description of the property in these deeds have legal ramifications. I believe the county got it right with their approval process in their negotiations with St. Joe which allows for a public easement along the beach. I believe that the recent court ruling in favor of the county is hope that this lawsuit will be resolved without involving the issues of customary use or exclusive use in property rights. If the county is successful then these deeds should be modified to allow this public easement on Walton county coastal sandy shorelines. Of course this is wishful thinking on my part.

You mentioned you side with those that keep bringing up the right to exclusive beach use by private owners adjacent to the coastal sandy shoreline. I would disagree with you on both moral and legal grounds. I already explained my legal opinion and admit that it may be wishful thinking. So morally speaking IMO wealth is defined by a control of resources and the gap that exists in the distribution of those resources. The People (working class, middle class) are working just as hard as any BFO who wants exclusive control of this resource. So, I must ask you if you believe that wealthy BFO's worked harder and should be rewarded with exclusive beach use over The People? You don't have to answer my rhetorical question because I respect your personal opinion. Many people believe that economic success is determined by working harder than the competition. I wish that were so but capitalism has been corrupted by a too big to fail, corporate entitlement and tax loophole advantages in our economic system. Trying to justify these advantages is normal human selfishness but will not serve any other purpose. There is a value in human life that goes beyond personal economic success and it links us all together to the very beginning of life which happened in these same tidal zones. No this is not about our property rights. This is about a human purpose that is rooted in the success of life itself.

I don't see a post by FBB on this thread.
 

kayti elliott

Beach Lover
Feb 19, 2014
151
87
34
Freeport
FBB, I agree with you about the lack of respect in discussing this issue. I admit to having to reach down deep to find respect for people who are not honest about who they are and what they represent. I have to reach down even further to find respect for some wealthy person explain that there are winners and losers in this world and the losers just want what the winners have. You seem like a respectful and reasonable person but if you are not aware of this attack on The People (local government, community, society) then you must be disconnected from the working class (those that get dirt under their fingernails) and what is left of the middle class (those that pay a higher tax percentage of income than any other class). Yes, it is hard to be respectful when someone is yelling and screaming about property rights, entitlements and punishments for those that use the beach (any beach) when this has nothing to do with any of that. The subject is the beach or coastal sandy shoreline and not a property owners back yard. It is accurately stated as the "shifting sands" in this thread. Yes, there is a problem with any deed that gives anyone ownership to the MHWL because it is not a fixed point. Blame it on whatever floats our boats literally but the deeds are incorrect. You can bring up all the property rights BS you want but we are NOT talking about a loser's entitlement to use someone else's property. All I am saying is be aware of why people get riled up about this stuff.

Yes I agree that the description of the property in these deeds have legal ramifications. I believe the county got it right with their approval process in their negotiations with St. Joe which allows for a public easement along the beach. I believe that the recent court ruling in favor of the county is hope that this lawsuit will be resolved without involving the issues of customary use or exclusive use in property rights. If the county is successful then these deeds should be modified to allow this public easement on Walton county coastal sandy shorelines. Of course this is wishful thinking on my part.

You mentioned you side with those that keep bringing up the right to exclusive beach use by private owners adjacent to the coastal sandy shoreline. I would disagree with you on both moral and legal grounds. I already explained my legal opinion and admit that it may be wishful thinking. So morally speaking IMO wealth is defined by a control of resources and the gap that exists in the distribution of those resources. The People (working class, middle class) are working just as hard as any BFO who wants exclusive control of this resource. So, I must ask you if you believe that wealthy BFO's worked harder and should be rewarded with exclusive beach use over The People? You don't have to answer my rhetorical question because I respect your personal opinion. Many people believe that economic success is determined by working harder than the competition. I wish that were so but capitalism has been corrupted by a too big to fail, corporate entitlement and tax loophole advantages in our economic system. Trying to justify these advantages is normal human selfishness but will not serve any other purpose. There is a value in human life that goes beyond personal economic success and it links us all together to the very beginning of life which happened in these same tidal zones. No this is not about our property rights. This is about a human purpose that is rooted in the success of life itself.
You seem really concerned about people being honest about who they are. I'm a nobody with an opinion but no agenda, but if you want my "real" name how about 'MamaK'. Seriously though, my first name is Kathryn.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
ForF you are correct. My bad. I meant my post to be in reply to you. Might have had FBB on my mind though :)

Please don't take this the wrong way but is there a better reason for using fake names than what has been posted in other threads? You mentioned respectful behavior so it just might help people be more respectful of one another if we use our real names. Again wishful thinking on my part!?!
 

FactorFiction

Beach Fanatic
Feb 18, 2016
494
409
ForF you are correct. My bad. I meant my post to be in reply to you. Might have had FBB on my mind though :)

Please don't take this the wrong way but is there a better reason for using fake names than what has been posted in other threads? You mentioned respectful behavior so it just might help people be more respectful of one another if we use our real names. Again wishful thinking on my part!?!

I see both sides of this issue. I did not say that I was taking a side. I said that "All of this bashing and class warfare is just causing more discontent and less liklihood that those who have deeded access will want to share IMO. It keeps everyone all riled up. If both sides focused on encouraging peaceful, respectful, environmentally friendly behavior, we might get somewhere." Both sides are antagonized. That doesn't lead to the best solution in my opinion. Of course, it may not matter at all given that the issue is in the courts.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
Kathryn, thank you! I respect your opinions, really! And you are somebody with a valid perspective. The question is how do people with differing perspectives agree to compromise on issues such as this one. It helps to know that we all share common values. It also helps to understand the other side of the issue. IMO the customary use side has made that connection and has offered solutions. Power brokers came in and made the issue about property rights over community good will. These power brokers made this about a class society in which there are winners and losers and why the winners should have control over the resource. If you have children and grandchildren you might should be concerned. Maybe even upset because greed is a real human trait. I am not judging anyone. I am saying that we need to nip this greed in the bud before it takes yet another resource away from The People.
 
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