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Stone Cold J

Beach Lover
Jun 6, 2019
150
171
SRB
"The Natural Resources of our County are in danger of exhaustion..." Teddy Roosevelt

I agree.

I think the Natural Resources are in much better hands with individual private property owners than the county or large developers.

This lawsuit is about taking property rights without compensation on property that has been private for generations. The county is going to make a free for all for the economic benefit of some businessmen and developers (AKA power brokers). That would dramatically increase the rate of exhaustion of our natural resources.

The county's lawsuit states that is it ancient, reasonable, without interruption, and free from dispute, but did not provide any evidence . Some affidavit saying someone stayed on some beach, somewhere along a 26 miles stretch, that may have been public or private property, or saw someone else on the beach that may have had or may not have had permission from the owner to be there, doesn't count. Although there may be differences of opinion if it is reasonable (some may think is not reasonable for people to own property next to the GOM), however both Dave and Sydney have stated that CU has been interrupted and the lawsuit defense proves this is under great dispute. Certainly Dan's Public Radio interview, YouTube videos, and Mother Jones interviews prove the dispute. And Dan is on the plaintiff side! Note EACH of those requirements must be shown true in a court of law for the county to take the property. Do you think the county can PROVE removing property rights without compensations is reasonable, without interruption, and free from dispute in a court of law? Be honest.

The county can purchase properties and turn them into public beaches, but I am not sure that is a good idea. I think the natural resources of SOWAL are more in danger of exhaustion under control of the county than the control of private property owners. Do you fully trust the county? Look at the beach property across near Stinky's. It was purchased for $3MM and then sold to the County 3 years later for over $7MM, and way above appraisal, and a few years later still waiting for it to open. Wonder who made money on that deal? Why didn't the county buy it 3 years earlier at half the price? Right now people dig and leave craters on SRB public beaches which can harm people and turtles. The TDC can't even force people to fill up the holes when they leave. And you think the TDC is going to regulate behavior? What about spending money on a new TDC home, without inspections, purchased over appraisal, only to find out after closing it does not pass code and must be torn down? Do you think the county is best to manage our Natural Resources with a free for all, unlimited access, by unlimited numbers of people, with unlimited beach equipment?

I think the State would do a better job of managing property than the county ever could from an ecological view point. Like when the SRB community came together to have the State purchase the Topsail property. At least that way density, ecological management, and to some extent behavior, will be controlled. Note that the Topsail property and other State/Federal property is not in the law suit by the county. Why? If CU is really true, shouldn't it apply equally over all 26 miles of beach front? If you want to go to the State Park, you buy a pass (or during high season the TDC buys them for the public) and the State Parks limit the number of people and enforces rules and behavior. If you don't behave or follow the rules you are kicked out and not allow back in the park. It is not a free for all.
 

kayti elliott

Beach Lover
Feb 19, 2014
151
87
34
Freeport
"The Natural Resources of our County are in danger of exhaustion..." Teddy Roosevelt

I agree.

I think the Natural Resources are in much better hands with individual private property owners than the county or large developers.

This lawsuit is about taking property rights without compensation on property that has been private for generations. The county is going to make a free for all for the economic benefit of some businessmen and developers (AKA power brokers). That would dramatically increase the rate of exhaustion of our natural resources.

The county's lawsuit states that is it ancient, reasonable, without interruption, and free from dispute, but did not provide any evidence . Some affidavit saying someone stayed on some beach, somewhere along a 26 miles stretch, that may have been public or private property, or saw someone else on the beach that may have had or may not have had permission from the owner to be there, doesn't count. Although there may be differences of opinion if it is reasonable (some may think is not reasonable for people to own property next to the GOM), however both Dave and Sydney have stated that CU has been interrupted and the lawsuit defense proves this is under great dispute. Certainly Dan's Public Radio interview, YouTube videos, and Mother Jones interviews prove the dispute. And Dan is on the plaintiff side! Note EACH of those requirements must be shown true in a court of law for the county to take the property. Do you think the county can PROVE removing property rights without compensations is reasonable, without interruption, and free from dispute in a court of law? Be honest.

The county can purchase properties and turn them into public beaches, but I am not sure that is a good idea. I think the natural resources of SOWAL are more in danger of exhaustion under control of the county than the control of private property owners. Do you fully trust the county? Look at the beach property across near Stinky's. It was purchased for $3MM and then sold to the County 3 years later for over $7MM, and way above appraisal, and a few years later still waiting for it to open. Wonder who made money on that deal? Why didn't the county buy it 3 years earlier at half the price? Right now people dig and leave craters on SRB public beaches which can harm people and turtles. The TDC can't even force people to fill up the holes when they leave. And you think the TDC is going to regulate behavior? What about spending money on a new TDC home, without inspections, purchased over appraisal, only to find out after closing it does not pass code and must be torn down? Do you think the county is best to manage our Natural Resources with a free for all, unlimited access, by unlimited numbers of people, with unlimited beach equipment?

I think the State would do a better job of managing property than the county ever could from an ecological view point. Like when the SRB community came together to have the State purchase the Topsail property. At least that way density, ecological management, and to some extent behavior, will be controlled. Note that the Topsail property and other State/Federal property is not in the law suit by the county. Why? If CU is really true, shouldn't it apply equally over all 26 miles of beach front? If you want to go to the State Park, you buy a pass (or during high season the TDC buys them for the public) and the State Parks limit the number of people and enforces rules and behavior. If you don't behave or follow the rules you are kicked out and not allow back in the park. It is not a free for all.
This is the most informed, sane statement on this issue to date.
 

Stone Cold J

Beach Lover
Jun 6, 2019
150
171
SRB
The SRB private property owners have had the same authority over their deeded private property for generations and it is up to the individual property owner on how many people and who they let on the property and it is their decision if they want to give preference to their family, friends, or guests. That has not changed for 100 years. Some did not care if others were on their property (back then was just a few people and no beach equipment) and others did not want people on their property. Same way today. Some care, some don't. What did changed was the county in 2016 saying private property owners no longer had property rights and then launched a lawsuit that lawyers have collected over 2 millions dollars so far. And do you think the court is going to rule that the county claim of reasonable, without interruption, and free from dispute is true? Be honest. Do you think the county has proved those claims?
 

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,305
386
Bmbv, my offer was for you to moderate a televised debate to keep it fair (in case you lose I don't want you to complain about the officiating).
I see. Wouldn't it be better if the moderator was totally impartial? And no I wouldn't want to moderate because Dave's body guards might have to jump me in the middle of it. I can only take so much.

What's the point in discussing this if Dave, the orator, WON'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE Reggie's challenge to a debate????
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,288
1,799
Bmbv, I'll be your body guard :)

Seriously, I don't get why everyone is so jumpy. I don't buy the notion that civility is completely gone. Surely we have could have a live debate instead of this back and forth ghost posting.

SCJ, I have always believed that private property owners are the best stewards of the land...until I started reading the message from your group. I realized that I need to reevaluate who private property owners are and more specifically BFO's. It did not take long for your group to reveal who you are. You are anti-government, anti-social (public), politically connected and wealthy (or connected to wealth) with superior elitist beliefs. My revelation was complete when Reggie used blasphemy in his post in response to my questioning of his credentials. Obviously your group does not use real names because you are hiding something. You are not honest about the reasoning for hiding behind the fake names. Okay some on the CU/Public Beach side also hide their names...but they have been posting for a long time and your group only very recently. So, what does all that mean? It means that We The People should not trust any of your words. It's that simple. You can post and post and post but it will not matter. If you want to be an authority of fact you will have to reveal who you are and why you believe that The People are unworthy to have public beach. Until that happens your words are insignificant and irrelevant to the problems we have in this community.

You asked a question about whether you should be in charge of our beach resource or the County. The answer is simple and overwhelmingly obvious: NOT YOU!
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,288
1,799
Bmbv, I wish you would read my post because I would not have to keep repeating myself. I do not know Dave. I have never met Dave. All I know is what has been posted in this forum regarding his opinion and believe regarding our beaches. When I first started reading this thread I was on the side of respectful behavior and private and public beaches working together. As I have said it did not take long for me to smell the BS coming from the private beach side. Please take notice that I am trying not to use the term power brokers because it seems to antagonize the heck out of your group especially Reggie. I have no idea who Reggie is but I do know what he believes and I oppose his beliefs. That said, I do not disrespect him or you.

If you really understood my message you would know that I probably have very little in common with Dave EXCEPT public vs private beach. I no longer follow either political party. Honestly, neither side represents me anymore. The left is too left and the right is too right and the people are too divided. Anyway I have no political agenda except to point out that we should not be so divided on issues and that we must compromise our principles to all get along. Constitutional principles are important but not at the expense of The People's access to our beautiful beach resource. You know that wealth has the ear of both political parties. You know that wealth owns the majority of our resources. You know that wealth will continue to own more and more of our resources. I congratulate their success but leave the beach to The People.

I'm Very sorry about those deeds, very sorry for a very few beach users being disrespectful, very sorry that the county has over developed but you BPO's should not ever have exclusive control over this resource. If the beaches are private then it would be 1000 times worse than over development relevant to the happiness of The People. You disagree and I can still respect that but I believe we can correct over development however we can not correct the loss of this resource to private ownership.

Respect is the single most important thing that we have to have in a civil society. Both sides have been disrespectful. I have tried not to disrespect anyone but you might disagree and I am listening. You are trying too hard to make me and my opinions your enemy. You are trying even harder to make Dave your enemy. It would be wonderful if we all would stop with all the male ego and belief that we are entitled to be right all the time and just listen. You and I probably are not as good at listening as we both would like to believe :)
 

customary user

Beach Comber
Jul 2, 2009
44
4
We interrupt this broadcast with a public service message:
These are Rich People's Problems. There are actually difficult issues we need to deal with. Beaches belong to everyone. Now let's move on to more important stuff.
 
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