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Stone Cold J

Beach Lover
Jun 6, 2019
150
171
SRB
You have opened my eyes!

And you have opened the eyes of many! I am glad you respect the arguments, but most importantly you should respect the laws. That is exactly why our founders formed a government to protect the rights of private ownership that can not be TAKEN without judicial approval. Checks and balances. The BCC was abusing the power trying to take without judicial approval.

It is the BCC that MUST PROVE IN COURT that forced occupation of unlimited people with unlimited equipment against the will of the property owner in the State of Florida is ancient, reasonable, without interruption, and without dispute.

You have stated there is evidence that the BCC has presented for it. I can not find any in the court documents, nor can find where forced occupation against the will of the property owner without judicial approval has ever occurred in the State of Florida.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
Scj, if you have nothing to prove in court then why are you here? The affirmation process allows you to dispute the declaration of public customary use by the local government entity? Why spend all that money to dispute if you have nothing to prove? Apparently you are not the lawyer that I thought you might be.

There you go using words like forced occupation again and again. Propaganda is just not working anymore. Walton county is following the law that gives you the opportunity to dispute public customary use. I would rethink your statement that you do not have to prove "nothing in court". In addition the county only has to prove evidence of public customary use. They have evidence. Lots of evidence. If you are saying that the court will disregard that evidence then you might also want to rethink that as well. I am now wondering if you have ever even thrown a frisbee on the beach :)
 

Stone Cold J

Beach Lover
Jun 6, 2019
150
171
SRB
It is the BCC that MUST PROVE IN COURT that forced occupation of unlimited people with unlimited equipment against the will of the property owner in the State of Florida is ancient, reasonable, without interruption, and without dispute.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
Again and again. This law requires a court to determine if the county has evidence of public customary use. It is an "affirmation" process. Your job as a hired gun (Fbb's or Rg's words) is to confuse the bfo's into believing this is about property rights. You have succeeded in that endeavor and now they will spend millions of dollars on having the power to exclude good people from what you call your private exclusive beach. The people behind the bill was hoping that a local government entity would not have the means to execute a long court process. Those people were wrong. The county is doing the right thing. Your no compromise approach left them no choice. I think the whole thing is fascinatingly dramatized and politicized and just plain abuse of power. All of our eyes are open and this is not going away with a simple "get off my beach" attitude. You still have a chance to rethink it...
 

Stone Cold J

Beach Lover
Jun 6, 2019
150
171
SRB
The people behind the bill was hoping that a local government entity would not have the means to execute a long court process. Those people were wrong

The people behind the law suit "Mr. No Compromise no matter what the cost" convinced the BCC that "only a dozen BPO's would object" and threw Bill Fletcher under the bus for the BCC election because he dared to use the dirty "C" word (screenshots available) thought the BPO's would not stand up the BCC. Those people were wrong. I agree, this is an example of abuse of power by the BCC and the people behind them to chase billions of tourists dollars at the expense of the BPO's. It has been over one year and the Plaintiff Attorney, who is a making a boat load of money off the county on a daily basis whether there is progress or not, has yet to satisfy Judge Green that he properly notify the defendants. The BCC still has a chance to rethink it...
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
Scj, if we respect each other and truly have these two polar opposite opinions or beliefs then where is the truth? We can't both be right. Agreed? I think most people would be a little skeptical of someone who hides their purpose, hides their identity and then goes on an attack of "the people". Many of your group have a low opinion of the people and a high opinion of themselves. As for as myself I can be wrong. I have been wrong. I started reading and posting on this issue and was on your side. I was very wrong. Your group falls into a category of never wrong and everyone else just wants something that you have. Kind of like you have some type of mandated entitlement to be right which was eye opening. Your group have one set of linear facts or one box from which to gather facts and dismiss EVERYTHING else. I understand conservative principles and live my life by most of them but when you get on the extreme side of those principles it starts to lose a connection with humanity. Tolerance, kindness, generosity, fairness, sharing, inclusion and equality are very important principles to humanity. The more I engaged with your group the more I learned about elitism and autocracy. One member of your group has a television show. I watched it. There was a guest who had written a book about happiness. The guest believed that happiness does not come from ownership of things. He went on to say that happiness comes from the principles related to and connected to humanity. This one box, this one principle of exclusion is not the truth that we all seek. It is interesting that the member of your group that I am referring to seems to value one principle over everything else but then had a guest that says no that will not take you to where you want to be in this life. The problem with politics is that it divides us and we lose our sense of humanity. We start to thinking that the other side just wants what we have and are coming from a weak emotion like envy or jealousy or entitlement. I don't think like that at all. I don't think the "majority" of the people think like that at all. There are bad apples in all groups of people but that should not create a fear that all people are bad apples. So I say that there is NO downside to giving people the benefit of the doubt. We the people are not a mob and in this case the majority of the people believe in public beaches. So, back to finding the truth in all this. If I am wrong and you are right then why not be open and honest about your purpose in this forum. Why do ALL those who support exclusion hide their identity? There is nothing to fear but fear itself...
 

Dave Rauschkolb

Beach Fanatic
Jul 13, 2005
1,006
790
Santa Rosa Beach
Deep appreciation to Commissioner Tony Anderson for proposing a letter of support to the County Commissioners in support of the repeal bill HB6063 and Senate Bill1680 that will reinstate Customary Use to our beaches. This resolution passed in the County Commission at last nights hearing unanimously. Thank you to all the Commissioners who voted in favor of this and maintain their commitment to restoring our beaches to their rightful order. Below is my statement read to the Commissioners last night.

Commissioners, I come to you as a beachfront property owner, a 34 year beachfront business owner, the chairman of the nonprofit, Florida beaches for all created to restore customary use to our beaches and as a father of two young girls, three and 10. Two young girls who have much fewer beaches to tickle their toes in without threat of arrest on our own Walton county beaches.

HOUSE bill 631 was written by some of the very lawyers who are representing Beach front owners and has empowered them to exclude and eject good Walton county citizens and visitors from our beaches. The BILL and subsequent Florida statute was written to be difficult, cumbersome, complicated and expensive for any county to pursue the affirmation of customary use on their beaches. The hundreds of thousands of dollars that the county has already spent and will continue to spend in this endeavor is unknown. This legislation and law appears to be a project that by design is a project to never end and every day that passes is an endangerment to our economy, our quality of life and a community that is civil and welcoming as a place to live, visit and raise children.

Commissioners, I very much appreciate this resolution you are to vote on and I very much would like to encourage you to include in your resolution the engaging of two County paid lobbyists to do everything they can do to work on the county’s behalf to support the passage of HB6063 in the Florida house by Representative Evan Jenne of Broward County and SB1680 in the Senate by Senator Lori Berman of Palm Beach County to repeal Fl Statute: 103.035 that effectively places no trespassing signs and gives the right to exclude non beachfront owners from large portions of 26 miles of our Walton County beaches.

The bill Representative Jenne has filed is a full repeal of the statute and his offices have confirmed that he is dedicated to making whatever modifications and amendments are necessary to guarantee full and free access to the sandy parts and the wet parts of all of our beaches for the Public's Customary Use. This, effectively reinstating the rightfully passed County Ordinance that guarantees Customary Use of our beaches.
I also ask that you enlist the support of House representative Brad Drake and Senate Representative George Gainer in this process. I really can’t imagine either of them not supporting this repeal legislation and they will need your support and help.

(I find it odd that it takes A South Florida Legislator to take the initiative to draft and file a bill to save our Walton County beaches when we would expect our own House Representative to do so.)

BUT

In any case passing this letter of support resolution should be all the encouragement House Representative Drake and Senator Gainer should need to passionately embrace and do the determined and diligent work to restore our beaches to Customary Use. Thank You.
Dave Rauschkolb Chairman Florida Beaches For All

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Stone Cold J

Beach Lover
Jun 6, 2019
150
171
SRB
where is the truth?

The TRUTH is each individual private property owner has always had control of who, how many, and how equipment can be on their property. It has always been that way. Even in the 1950's and 1960's, if you did not rent from Eric Allen (Dune Allen Beach) then you could not be on his property against his will. Same for the Edgewater properties. Do you think the FBFA has told Suzanne that they only own the view and NOT the deeded property? The State of Florida has never permitted forced occupation of unlimited people with unlimited equipment on private property against the will of the property owner. God willing, this will never change for the USA and a key focus of the founding fathers (thus the taking clause in the constitution).

The truth is the same today. The State of Florida and Walton County recognizes the deeded property boundaries and Florida Property Rights. Until 2016, so did the BCC.

There is absolutely no "ban" from the beach. Each parcel owner can determine their own criteria for guests. Some may restrict to people renting the property, some may restrict the number of guests and or equipment, some may restrict the dates or hours, and a few may not want anyone one their property. That is the way it has been done since anyone on this forum has been alive.

This was never an issue until the volume of tourists grew exponentially and the BCC did not keep up with additional purchases and restrooms for tourists. The Private Property owners do not owe a free "day camping" spot on their private deeded property against their will. Many rent their properties (with private beach) to offset the millions of dollars and taxes they have invested. This wasn't an issue when we had less than 1,000,000 people per year (read the affidavits) but definitely a problem with 3 million tourists and critical at 4 million. It will only get worst for 4.1 million, 4.2 million, 5 million, etc. Even the State Parks limit the total number so the infrastructure available (parking, restrooms). We need to LIMIT DENSITY so the fragile ecosystem is not ruined for our future generations. Why are we letting the BCC steal property so the developers and businessmen can make billions at the expense of the private property owners? What happens when they increase the building height above 50 ft and allow high rise condos? How long before the people who come here for the food and fun and willing to spend money find somewhere else due to over crowding by people who are bussed in from other areas and only spending their money at the small-mart or Publics and leave their trash on the beach? What happens when our shops and businesses are replaced with t-shirt shops and tattoo parlors (look at neighboring counties if you don't think that will happen).

Time to get WOKE. No public property became private because of HB 631. Follow the money and read the 2016 BCC Special Meeting Minutes and the depositions. This is ALL about chasing billions of tourists dollars.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,289
1,799
Scj, yes population has increased and humans are harming our environment including the huge concrete and steel structures being built for exclusive views and enjoyment on natures protective dune systems. It that not a fact. Is that not a truth. Hypocrisy is not helping your dramatic dialogue. We all have to expect our elected officials to be responsible at managing and adjusting our infrastructure. I noticed you used God as a reference. Do you believe that God has mandated you with the power to exclude people from the beach? You also used our forefathers as a reference. Do you believe every one of those brilliant people who formed our government mandated you with the power to exclude people from the beach? If you answer yes then I believe I am much closer to the truth. If you answer no and we continue to be honest and respectful then we can solve these issues you speak of with civility and common sense and creativity. That is what humanity is all about. Inclusion. Population increase is inevitable. We have to find ways to live together, work together and find some tolerance for our differences. The truth is not in your principle of exclusion of these beaches for a few wealthy multimillionaires. The truth is in humanity. Since you brought God into this discussion I will bring in Jesus the son. Did Jesus preach about exclusion or tolerance and forgiveness for those you disagree with (Matthew 6:14). Awaken my friend and feel the warmth of the sun reflecting from the dry white sand as you throw the frisbee and retrieve your frisbee no matter where it lands in that sand...sorry but your dramatic dialogue inspires me :)
 
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