Emergency BCC Meeting - 8/1/05

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by For The Health Of It, Jul 29, 2005.

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  1. ktmeadows

    ktmeadows Beach Fanatic

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    I guess this means that technically, a beachgoer might not be able to get from one section of the beach to another because someone "owns" the section in between? :dunno:

    The owner is probably related to some of the folks who fought the beach restoration in Destin so they could keep their "private" beach! I don't want to see anyone lose their home, but this guy may just be the exception. Maybe someday he'll be wishing he had any beach left for his home to sit on!
     
  2. southof30A

    southof30A Beach Lover

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    Kum bay ya m' Lord, Kum bay ya....
     
  3. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    Perhaps at high tide, if the water is above the mean high water line. I think one solution presented in Destin was that people could walk on the "privately owned beach" up to 10 feet above the water line, but they could not stop on the property. Keep it moving.
     
  4. ktmeadows

    ktmeadows Beach Fanatic

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    Gosh....imagine if there were a dozen or so homes side by side with these "private" beaches and you had to keep moving or else, one might begin to feel like one of those ducks in a carnival shooting gallery! :laughing1
     
  5. Old Blue

    Old Blue Beach Comber

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    QUOTE=Smiling JOe]Watch out, you are in Walton County and Cindy Meadows has only one vote.[/QUOTE]

    Thank goodness that there is only one of her!! Her statement of "beachfront homeowners can afford to buy these homes for 3 million, so let them pay for the white sand" ... along w/ the comment about "we have tried to help 'you people', but you have taken advantage of our help"!!!!! was enough to undo any good she did. Where was this heroine on her shining white SUV at the beginning of the week when her office was innundated by these reports? Why did it take her until 7:15PM on Friday practically after threat of revolt, to show up at CR 83 access & be so "appalled" at this atrocity that had been sitting there for 4 days+??? At the meeting, she was not even going to listen to anything that had to be said about the sand from either the county employees who had been advised by TDC on the method of testing nor from either side of her constituents before just jumping in and making a motion to change the scale. I am sorry, but her praises need to be reevaluated. This time next week 3 people might have told her something that will have her changing something else that might affect folks North of 30A that she will think can afford to pay 1 million plus for their homes so who cares if it might affect their pocketbook. Larry Jones is the one who was able to get an unemotional motion passed. I thank him for at least allowing the citizens to be heard after saying he did not have enough information to vote when she threw a motion out after her "displeasure" at not being informed in advance of the video. After some of her personal and undeserving attacks on beachfront home owners, I hope she never expects their support.
     
  6. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    Chill out Old Blue. Commissioner Cindy Meadows is not the one who jumped in wanting to change the acceptable sand from a 6.2 on the Munsell scale. She presented a motion to simply remove the dirt that did not meet the 6.2 requirement. She did not get a second for her motion, if my memory serves me correctly. It was Commissioner Larry Jones' motion, passing 3:1, which increased the acceptable rating of the sand.


    I believe she was responding to the angry owners objecting to having to redo their efforts due to the illegal dumping of sand not meeting the requirements of the Board. Sure, it was approved, but incorrectly so. I think she believes that since the dirt which was dumped, illegally because of its color, was so much different than a 6.2 or greater, that someone in the County, along with some homeowners were willing to overlook the rules, and say that the Munsell is subjective in order to save money and act quickly without regard to the Board's original decision.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2005
  7. Old Blue

    Old Blue Beach Comber

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    NO, she was responding to the owners who did not feel it was fair to punish 26 miles of beach because the county erred in their allowance of that pile of sand at Blue Mountain. The brown sand at BMB was the same price as the other sand being hauled in as a 6.2. It was availability that caused the one homeowner to buy the sand.... certainly not cost.
     
  8. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    Okay, so why is your beef with Cindy Meadows, rather than Commissioners Jones and Pridgen? As I stated, Cindy's motion was to leave the sand requirement at 6.2 but enforce it. She could not get a second. Larry Jones is the one who motioned to raise the current level, and received a second from Meadows only after clarification from Jones. You should be more upset with Jones, Pridgen, and Cutchens, and perhaps even Commissioner No Show Scott Brannon for not passing Meadows motion, which would have done nothing more than removing the illegal sand at Blue Mtn. I think your emotions are in the way of the facts.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2005
  9. Kurt Lischka

    Kurt Lischka Admin Staff Member

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    It is common, at the beginning of discussion of a particular topic, for a commissioner to make a motion clarifying the issue at the onset. This sets the stage for public comment and professional presentations. This allows for a somewhat different motion to be made at the end of the discussion, usually by a different commissioner.

    All things considered the result was good for all in the community and handled in an effective and timely way, even though some may feel compromised. The white sand ordinance has been in place for some time now, and each and every homeowner where it applies is governed by it. There was a relaxation of that ordinance, increasing availability of materials and saving folks money, that is a bonus that should be welcomed, honored, and appreciated.

    Most of the homeowners that spoke were in favor of keeping the standards up and not allowing the brown soil in question, which the DEP has stated is a 4 on the Munsell scale and would have been ordered to be removed had the county not done so. There were a few people sitting in the back that yelled insults at Commissioner Meadows. If it was anyone on this forum I'd like to hear from them.
     
  10. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    Kurt, while I could not have picked you out of a two person line-up, I think I could spot Old Blue from a mile away.
     
  11. aquaticbiology

    aquaticbiology fishlips

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    same thing that would happen to you if someone sucked you up with a giant vacuum and spit you out under 3-14 feet of sand

    thats why the shells are just now returning to pcb's beaches, or they were before dennis

    no fish really get hurt, they love to eat the stuff that gets uncovered and they can easily get out of the way of the hose

    just not enough cajuns with suction barges (dredges) to go around these days
     
  12. aquaticbiology

    aquaticbiology fishlips

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    on a side note to this I just saw in the PC Herald online edition


    Hope for dunes

    Air Force biologists, however, are exploring ways to allow dune systems on the beaches it controls to rebuild themselves naturally, according to Eglin biologist Bruce Hagedorn.

    The responsibility for shoring up the base property south of U.S. 98 most recently has fallen to Rip Kirby, a University of South Florida student who has patented a sand fence he believes can rebuild a dune system within a couple of years.

    Eglin has given Kirby permission to use its property to test his asterisk-shaped fence, which he says catches windblown sand no matter which way the wind is blowing.

    ?It?s like stirring sugar in coffee. The sand sits in the center until it dissolves. The vortex of the fence holds sand inside until it drops,? Kirby said.

    While the old-fashioned sand fences take about two years to establish four feet of dune, Kirby believes he can accomplish the same thing in six to 12 months.

    Kirby said he will field test his fence for the next 18 months at one of the Okaloosa Island sites where storm surge has most impacted U.S. 98. He?s advertising on eBay for corporate sponsors to help him fund the project.

    ?Hopefully we?ll have a lot of sand dunes to show for it,? he said of the project.

    hmmmmmmm, and what happens to the fences when the next dennis comes along

    really must get back to work, c u l8r
     
  13. aquaticbiology

    aquaticbiology fishlips

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    and (links to articles follow)

    Renourishment. Dennis was a real eye-opener for sand renourishment in Panama City Beach. Renourishment henceforth is not about protecting beaches, it's about protecting buildings -- including some that were enticed by the Tourist Development Council and local government to build too close to the water for anybody's good (see the July 10 editorial "Calling the shots").

    Some older, smaller structures already could be one or two storms away from condemnation. If not when it resumes dredging again sometime this year, the Army Corps of Engineers must soon forget about trying to match the sugarywhite sand texture. Beachfront property owners eventually will scream for the corps to bulldoze mud, if it has to.

    Writing in Thursday's USAToday, the director and associate director of Duke University's Program for Study of Developed Shorelines warned that renourishment is "more like a high-stakes gamble than a long-term solution." At best, they said, "Beach renourishment should be used only as a temporary shoreline stabilization option."

    Bay County's temporary shoreline stabilization has lasted long enough to cause mighty ripples in property values far inland. People who didn't think they had a stake before in whomever or whatever the Tourist Development Council is, now find that the TDC manages their children's inheritance.


    http://www.centredaily.com/mld/news...38.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

    and the previous one was

    http://www.newsherald.com/erodingcoast/0802.shtml

    best to just go to

    http://www.newsherald.com and subscribe if necessary

    ive got to get back to work right now or just quit and head south
     
  14. OhioBeachBum

    OhioBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Good somebody is thinking along those lines. I was really scratching my head watching some of the scrape / restoration operations last week:

    http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/1/0/8/6/100_1199.JPG
    http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/1/0/8/6/100_1200.JPG

    http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/1/0/8/6/100_1193.JPG
    http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/1/0/8/6/100_1194.JPG

    http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/1/0/8/6/100_1187.JPG
    http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/1/0/8/6/100_1188.JPG

    wondering exactly what is supposed to be keeping that sand more or less in place when wave action gets more aggressive. That fill area around Pomp Joe's is maybe 50 yards from the tide line. The fill by the condos is only, what, maybe 10 or 15 yards? Watching the dinky 1-2 foot waves moving sand on and off the beach...
     
  15. Kurt Lischka

    Kurt Lischka Admin Staff Member

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    Nothing - they had just finished doing the same job and then Arlene took it all away.
     
  16. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    That is right, nothing will hold the sand there. Even seawall will not stop it. During another forceful storm, the water will find its way under the wall by washing out the sand in front of it, and the sea walls will become trash on the beach or in the water. Even Mother Nature's dunes are only temporary.
     
  17. katie blue

    katie blue kt loo

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    Curious, has anyone heard from him about why he was absent that day? He's the elected official in my district (seacrest), and i'd be interested to know his official stance on the issues at hand.

    -kate
     
  18. Smiling JOe

    Smiling JOe SoWal Expert

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    I have no idea why he was not there, but I could make up some good stuff. It certainly is in his favor to not have to choose a side. I have not heard anyone mention the fact that he was not there, nor have I heard his thoughts on what to do about the erosion. I know he is a good ole boy (not to be confused with the KKK), but I see him willing to listen and think, but the question I have, is he too young and impressionable? Also, is he paying back for the votes that put him in that seat, as most politicians tend to do? I remember the groups campaigning for him. I like to think of him as a smart guy, and I hope he uses his power and influence wisely. As they say plan for the worse and pray for the best.
     
  19. OhioBeachBum

    OhioBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Well, I don't want spawn a big 'ole man-vs-nature inevitability thing, but I tend to have a somwhat perverted optimistic attitude toward the impossible. I suspect one could design a wall/sand combo in certain sorts of locations (the Pomp Joe's area comes to mind, 'cause I was plopped on the beach studying that area for awhile) that would stand up to one s***load of abuse. Obviously not a straight wall - nature operates in arcs and curves and such and one must go with the flow (hard won knowledge in martial arts venues over the years :blink: ). Thing is it (backing wall) would cost a bundle - iceberg like with foundation depth in excess of wall height (below tide line) and arc lines would have to be modeled to encourage sand dumping rather than scavenging - dissipation and diffusion of wave energy - [and that's a set of equations I sure can't run anymore, even assuming anybody could isolate all of the primary dependent variables] - and you'd still have to dump the sand in front after a major pounder - nothing rigid can stand up to long term abrasion. Now mitigation for structures (like in my pix) 15 yds from the high tide line - that I'd move to the impossible slot - at least impossible without eventually obliterating the beach.
     
  20. SGB

    SGB Beach Fanatic

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    Does anyone know what Rosemary, Seaside or Watercolor are going to be doing to their beaches, if anything?

    I know some neighborhoods are looking at Geotubes or Geotechtubes. Does anyone know anything about these? Do they do any good? Will they stay in place with a big storm?
     
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