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BeachSiO2

Beach Fanatic
Jun 16, 2006
3,294
737
No, not typically. But it happens. Tropical Storm Alberto on July 3, 1994, for one. The winds were never strong enough to be a serious threat, but that storm produced record-breaking rainfall and fatalities in Georgia from flooding. According to the NHC archives, it actually began as a wave off the coast of Africa on June 18. But it mostly died out and reformed more than once. When it finally took shape in the Gulf it blew up quickly. Take a look at the Watch and Warning Lead Times, from NHC:
For Destin:
Tropical Storm Watch - not issued
Tropical Storm Warning - 24 hours
Hurricane Warning - 15 hours.
That's right, 15 hours warning on Fourth of July weekend. Most people stayed put because it wasn't a Katrina, but lots decided to leave, that is the ones that were able to get gas. It was quite the traffic jam at the Seagrove Tom Thumb. Forecasting is better these days so we might get a bit longer, maybe enough hours to equal the evacuation time. Oh, but wait, on the Fourth of July, and everybody would have to leave pretty much at the same time....:eek:

Warning this post is not related to handcuffs :blush:

Thank you NDY for the Alberto reference and I did go to the site and found the following links and summaries. It is a very good example of what can happen on short notice but has some good lessons also. I am summarizing each into one sentence to make a point:

Keep in mind this storm has been being tracked in the gulf since before 11pm on Thursday, June 30th. The track is continually moving eastward with each update and they are saying over and over that there are numerous things that "could" or "might" affect it.

5am Sat Jul 02, Pensacola is part of the tropical storm area.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/storm_wallets/atlantic/atl1994/alberto/tropdisc/nal0194.008

11am Sat Jul 02, Destin and BSW are in the TS warning zone
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/storm_wallets/atlantic/atl1994/alberto/tropdisc/nal0194.009

11am Sun Jul 03, TS Alberto is right on the coast
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/storm_wallets/atlantic/atl1994/alberto/tropdisc/nal0194.014

My point is that there was a Tropical system that was being watched in the gulf for 3.5 days prior to landfall and continually moving eastward. It had an erratic track and was small in intensity meaning that it was subject to great location changes due to steering currents. At worst, the Weather Channel would be hyping this thing like armageddon itself for at least three days out and Cantore would have a tent on the beach 48 hours out. ;-)

In all seriousness, when a storm enters the gulf pay attention. If like with this example the track continues to move and they say they don't know where its going and there are numerous factors that could affect it- take advantage of all the time you have to get out. With the knowledge of what happened with Katrina, we really can't say- "I didn't know." Keep in mind with a Cat 3-4 storm most of the area NORTH of 98 will flood also due to Choctawhatchee Bay (think Mississippi). Not to mention the problems on the beach. Sorry for the hijack again. I promise to quit :D
 

BeachSiO2

Beach Fanatic
Jun 16, 2006
3,294
737
For some reason, the song "Should I Stay or Should I Go" is in my head after reading this thread.

Not in your house :D
 

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,736
3,327
Sowal
I'm hoping for some great hurricane karmic retribution for the "mine, mine, mine, don't touch" beach owners!

Too bad a hurricane is more of a blunt instrument than a scalpel ;-).
 

yippie

Beach Fanatic
Oct 28, 2005
946
42
A local
No, not typically. But it happens. Tropical Storm Alberto on July 3, 1994, for one. The winds were never strong enough to be a serious threat, but that storm produced record-breaking rainfall and fatalities in Georgia from flooding. According to the NHC archives, it actually began as a wave off the coast of Africa on June 18. But it mostly died out and reformed more than once. When it finally took shape in the Gulf it blew up quickly. Take a look at the Watch and Warning Lead Times, from NHC:
For Destin:
Tropical Storm Watch - not issued
Tropical Storm Warning - 24 hours
Hurricane Warning - 15 hours.
That's right, 15 hours warning on Fourth of July weekend. Most people stayed put because it wasn't a Katrina, but lots decided to leave, that is the ones that were able to get gas. It was quite the traffic jam at the Seagrove Tom Thumb. Forecasting is better these days so we might get a bit longer, maybe enough hours to equal the evacuation time. Oh, but wait, on the Fourth of July, and everybody would have to leave pretty much at the same time....:eek:

Hurricane Opal, we didn't even have 15 hours. We all went to bed knowing it was going to New Orleans, and were awoken at 7 am by Sheriff's cars going through the neighborhood with loud speakers screaming, "GET OUT GET OUT WE ARE GOING TO BE HIT. IT'S A CATAGORY 5. GET OUT NOW!"

That was by far one of the scariest experiences of my life. Everyone was just throwing things in the car. I got out by 9am and it took me 10 hours to get to Andalusia (sp) Alabama.

They still have not changed any evacuation route since them. That was 1995,...... no changes in evacuation route..... population explosion..... no changes in evacuation route.......2007.... no change in evacuation route...

Get the point?

Oh, and that was in October, NOT the middle of season, so there weren't many tourist here at all.
 
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Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,648
1,773
To lessen confusion and weed out the posts which are not pertaining to beach ownership and being kicked off the beach, please start a hurricane evacuation thread. It is a serious issue and needs to be in a thread dedicated to it, as does this one on beach ownership. thanks.;-)
 

JB

Beach Fanatic
Nov 17, 2004
1,446
40
Tuscaloosa
The latter part of this thread has convinced me of one thing - if I'm ever in the area when a hurricane warning is issued, I'd rather have a root canal than try to evacuate. I'll wait until just before landfall, then head to the nearest shelter. I'd rather fight storm surge in my living room than traffic on 331.
 

BeachSiO2

Beach Fanatic
Jun 16, 2006
3,294
737
To lessen confusion and weed out the posts which are not pertaining to beach ownership and being kicked off the beach, please start a hurricane evacuation thread. It is a serious issue and needs to be in a thread dedicated to it, as does this one on beach ownership. thanks.;-)

Can you do it for us? I don't know how to bring messages over...:dunno:
 

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,289
375
Today's Walton Sun (http://waltonsun.com):

Recent arrest sparks private beach issue
July 11, 2007
Sean Boone
Sean_Boone@link.freedom.com

It has been more than 30 years since the 1974 City of Daytona Beach v. Tona-Rama, Inc. case, which made public access on dry-sanded beaches permissible, yet the issue of privatization continues to be debated in the state of Florida do to legal disputes and changes in county policies.
Although all beaches were declared permissible for use in the state in the Tona-Rama case, loitering and using private-deemed beach property for recreational use (tents, towels etc.) was not.
In South Walton, several beach resorts and developments have recently hired security officers to patrol the private section of the beach front property.
But what exactly is considered private beach front property?
According to the Tourist Development Council, areas west of Four Mile Village is deemed public 35-40 feet from the water due to the recent county beach nourishment project that has widened the beach; areas along 30-A that are private allow no dry sand access for public use.
?The Walton County Sherriff?s Office has been willing to enforce the wet sand line,? said a Blue Mountain Inn Beach Resort official. ?The majority of this area is private property. People bought it so they could enjoy it.?
Services, such as Silver Shores security (which Blue Mountain Inn and the Retreat use), have been hired to respond to complaints from residents who feel that their property is being intruded upon. If a problem persists, deputies are then notified.
The arrest that occurred in front of the Retreat beach community on July 5 has created a number of concerns for residents and visitors in regards to what and where is deemed legal to use the beach in the Blue Mountain Beach area.
Eduardo Gonzalez, 47, of Atlanta, Ga., was sitting in a chair on dry sand on Retreat property when he was asked by a security guard to move to the wet sand area of the beach, or leave. When Gonzalez refused, Walton Sherriff?s deputies were called and arrested him for trespassing. Gonzalez refused to comment on the incident.
?Until we get further guidance, we are going to enforce trespassing,? said Lt. Bryan A. Maule, Jr., of the Walton County Sheriff's Office
Although a change in beach policy has been denied by law enforcement, some long-term visitors and residents disagree.
?We?ve all been coming down here for 40 years, said Rick Hallman. ?Now they?ve started this whole territorial thing. We?ve got nowhere to go. If you?re going to start arresting tourists and hauling them off in front of family and kids, what kind of message are you sending to your tourists that you thrive on??
Hallman and his wife both witnessed the arrest last week in front of the Retreat and were also asked by security to move from the spot that they were sitting.
?We came down here to setup and of course the security guard came down and we had to move where the sand is wet. How can you have fluctuating property rights? Are they going to start arresting children??
Because of the recent attention that this issue has been given, the TDC released a frequently asked question list this past week to answer private/public beach questions that have been addressed by the public.
One question that was not listed and has been frequently discussed on the SoWal.com message board is the funding of the TDC in relation to public beach benefits (trash cans, lifeguards etc.).
?We are not part of the county,? said TDC Executive Director Kris Titus. ?We are fully funded by bed taxes. The TDC has the ability to drive on private beach; the health, safety, and welfare of the public is to have a clean beach.?
But even with the recent attention to the matter, the question still lingers as to how the general public will be informed on what is private beach access and what are the implications for trespassing.
?I think some of the county commissioners need to clarify where the public can use this beach,? said resident Debbie Barnhill. ?If it?s the case that we as taxpayers aren?t allowed to sit this close to water, than we need to put our properties up for sale and move on to an area that is more community minded.?
Calls to Retreat Homeowners Association spokesman Frank Flautt were not returned.
 
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