Mosquito Control wants to spend $1.2 million for a new poison spray plane

[mothernature]

Hello to Everyone Interested in this issue!

Poison is as poison does. On the discussion of "dose", you may want to check the October, 2006 issue of National Geographic, page 116 which begins an article "The Pollution Within." The author, David Ewing Duncan, decided to write about toxins in the environment. During the process he also decided to see what his body burden of chemicals was; so, page 126 lists the chemical report card of his toxic build up-- pcb's, pesticides, metals, etc.

Pesticides among many other chemicals build up in the fatty tissue of the body where they are stored cumulatively. Do you want a real wake up call? Investigate the horrendous effects to the nervous system, kidneys, liver, reproductive system and other body systems. At first, you don't think of these conditions as environmentally related. When eventual cancers surface, what was the cause? Get a copy of "STOPPING CANCER AT THE SOURCE" by M. Sara Rosenthal, PhD. A study was commissioned by the Ontario Minister of Health to determine primary ways to PREVENT CANCER. The government-commissioned task force chaired by internationally acknowledged cancer epidemiologist, Dr. Tony Miller, presented its findings. This book outlines the many sources of cancer, including pesticides.

Dibrom Naled effects has been covered nicely earlier in this thread. To my knowledge, they are still using a synthetic pyrethroid, permethrin, to target the mosquitoes. These are just a few links very worth your time:

http://www.panna.org/resources/documents/factsheetPyrethroid.pdf

http://www.safe2use.com/poisons-pesticides/index.htm
http://www.safe2use.com/poisons-pesticides/pesticides/permethrin/cox-report/cox.htm

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/

Yes, other states have faced this issue. California, Texas, New York and the list goes on. (www.nospray.org is just one site) It's our lives, the lives of our loved ones and HEALTH we're talking about. Isn't it worth getting accurate knowledge and opting for the safe alternatives (yes SAFE) that are out there? :clap_1:

If anyone is interested in more info, just ask. Mother Nature
_______________________________
If you don't ask the right questions, you'll never get the answers you seek.

 

[30A Skunkape]

Care to disclose what carcinogenic polymers were used in the manufacture of your avatar dolly, Mothernature;-) :roll:

 

[30A Skunkape]

Here is mothernature's article. It is an interesting read actually. But the big message I get from it is that we are a much cleaner lot now than we were in the 1970s, and the author enjoys a healthy adulthood even though he grew up in less environmentally conscious times.

http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0610/feature4/index.html

 

[mothernature]

Cute, Skunkape. Actually, as you can tell by my picture I haven't had time to get out much on the sunny SW beaches. I'm too busy doing research.:shock:

I'm glad you're an aware consumer looking to buy healthier products for you and your family. That makes good sense!

 

[organicmama]

OM-I never said we have all the answers about pathology, cause and effect, etc. Just out of curiousity, what are some of the idiopathic conditions you are talking about?

Sorry to hear about docs throwing steroids at your hubby, but to be fair, I know nothing of his history (and please-DO NOT POST IT HERE! )and there are some vexing autoimmune disorders where steroids are not the wrong answer even if a diagnosis is not clinched. With that said, I know of nobody who routinely hands out steroids for no good reason.

I don't think alternative medicine is as discounted as you might think. Interventions not taught in western medical schools are embraced, as long as they make some physiological sense, are not dangerous and have demonstrated efficacy. Unfortunately, there are way too many hucksters out there looking to make a buck by cashing in on the hopes and fears of sick people. Quackery is a spade I will call out whenever I see it in the name of beneficence.

I agree with you regarding allopathic's shortcomings as far as preventative medicine goes. You will be happy to know that this is a concept that is being stressed in med schools and residency programs at present, and the fruits will be obvious a few years down the road. Personally, I feel preventative care is a keystone to good health. Please know that I have nagged more than one member of SOWAL into going in and getting checkups. One of the things that turns me off of working in the ER is there is little meaningful opportunity to establish long term healthcare relationships-it is almost exclusively reactionary (and for others such as adrenaline junkies, that is great and they would slit their wrists in primary care)

The pediatric pesticide study has been around for some time now, and as it states, nobody knows what, if any, import there is with the results. Of course, given the choice between feeding a kid pesticide treated versus non-treated is a non-brainer if it is an option, but I think my original point was simply pointing out that an organically grown bunch of grapes that is crawling with E. coli is a worse option than 'conventional' grapes. But let me just say that no matter what, parents who get their kids to lay off the french fries and chicken nuggets in favor of fruits and veggies in the formative years will have healthier kids in the long run any way you look at it

I am not sure who is and who isn't testing their products (Monsanto) in other countries, but in our country companies that market stuff like roundup have to have done comprehensive testing and the results are available to the public....here for example http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Monsanto-Roundup-MSDS-Docs.htm

I don't know what they are doing to their seeds!

And since you brought up developing countries, let me pitch this ethical question at you (and understand that I do not claim to know the correct answer):Some countries in malarial stricken Africa are flirting with the idea of restarting the use of DDT, which in a vacuum is an excellent agent to fight malaria;do you think it is ethically correct for the United States and other first world countries to threaten economic aid withdrawl to said countries if they use DDT? DDT will result in the saving of thousands of lives yearly with probable untoward environmental impact...what do you think our policy toward the African nations be?:scratch:

Okay, let me address the grapes.... clean them with a biologically safe cleaner!;-) Yes, you'll get sick if you don't, but that's common sense! Ask peaboy how they clean veggies and fruits in the juicebar. I wouldn't go around and just eat dirt, nor would I not wash my organically grown grapes. Hell yeah, I'd get sick if I didn't. But I wouldn't wash them with an antibacterial soap as that is as bad/worse than the original problem.

Question, even with the move towards more focus in viable alternative medicine in med school, how many hours are logged in regarding nutrition? Yes, it's simple to say to not eat BigMacs and fries with a supersize Coke everyday, but what time is given to the nuances of true nutrition? I took nutrition in undergrad and it was truly nothing more than the basic food groups. I still have my textbook here (as a joke!), if you wanna see it.

Just as MotherNature points out, could these pathologies that allopathic medicine has not figured out actually be caused by the toxins & poisons? The study points out that it is truly not known. It is ridiculous to say, "Let's use this product until we find out if it kills us or not." That becomes a little late, doesn't it?

My point is that we should use the knowledge learned through science & allopathic medicine with the knowledge that has been there in holistic medicine for ages. Yes, you mentioned earlier that the average lifespan has been prolonged... But what of health in our advanced years? Is it truly better across the board? There are a number of illnesses that point to toxic exposure as the culprit or as the straw that broke the camel's back.

Let me preface what I am about to say with this: It is my opinion that the African continent as a whole has been shafted by everyone in regards to real aid and assistance in regards to bringing modern sanitation, health, etc. up to par there. Yes, there is a lot of aid going there, but it is in the form of fixing problems that are there instead of preventing them, kind of like "preventative healthcare." Personally, I know of groups that go to help with malaria & AIDS, and of course, to convert the locals. But where is the prevention assistance? This gets into social, political and religious issues that are too many to name here.

Okay, about DDT and malaria... I knew about the issue and even Greenpeace backing down on the DDT ban in this instance. My opinion is this: If there is absolutely NOTHING else, then it must be used. It is likened to a person having a heart attack in front of my face... would I make him/her take a supplement or rush them to the ER? The ER, of course. But if I had the chance to work with him/her from the beginning in preventing the problems that caused the heart attack, the necessity of the ER would never be an issue.

The sources that I have read also state that malaria is more of a problem in some countries more than others. I am not using the term problem lightly. I am saying it seriously. DDT also seems to be more effective in some countries more than others. Vietnam managed to curb malaria without the use of DDT. There are key arguments that everyone is missing in this issue of Africa, malaria and DDT. So, right now, the "only answer" is DDT.

But it goes back to what I said a couple of paragraphs ago. Short term, it's like a heart attack or a stroke. Fix it fast. Long term... what about working to build the systems that will support other viable answers? And, if other systems had been in place the whole time, there would never be an "it's DDT or nothing" answer.

No, I won't publicly post specifically about my husband's illness & the symptoms but I will say that it is caused by various exposures to toxins in his environment from his previous career. We have had it tested by MDs. AND, it wasn't 1 MD throwing prednisone and the like at him. I can name about 15-18 that did (here and in Georgia), each stating that he needed it temporarily (although it caused his problems to worsen) or stating that the specific steroid they were giving him wouldn't have the same side effects, although when reading the fine print, each of them had essentially the same effects. Plus, all but about 3 of the MDs discounted our questions in regards to overlapping symptoms, stating that there was no way they were related.

Isn't our body designed to be a fully operating system that can be broken down into its various smaller systems and organs? Isn't the eye an eye, but also a part of a whole body? Does it operate completely separate from the rest of one's body? One day, he might write a song about it. Or an album. Or maybe a book....

Do you want me to post links in regards to GM crops and Monsanto? It is a biotechnology company. Need I say more or do I need to post the heck outta some scary links? The biotech science isn't safe, nor it is currently labeled on food. And what about GM foods in regards to allergies in humans? If a (normally non-allerginic) food is genetically modified with a gene from a food (or animal) that a person is allergic to? What happens then? Do you have an answer?

Hey, leave Mother Nature alone. I her and I'll have to you up.

 

[30A Skunkape]

Hey, I have an idea-let's all eat some of organicmama's poo-poo grapes that have been irradiated to kill the critters...how's that for compromise?:clap_1:

I appreciate your honesty on the DDT issue

Nutrition is taught poorly. I feel that I could have spent alot less time learning about mundane biochem pathways and more in areas such as nutrition. I do push breastfeeding on new moms, I will have you know

You have really intrigued me regarding what toxin got your hubby:scratch: Based on the few details you have given, I bet rheumatologists, neurologists and endocrinologists were all involved and failed to make a diagnosis and you found one elsewhere...just a guess That is how the oddball afflictions tend to run.

And quit me or you will drive me to

 

[organicmama]

And since we got so off topic, Skunky & any others out there, why are y'all so pro-spraying pesticides? Why are you not interested in exploring the viable alternatives? What gives? There is no logic in saying, "Well this is the way we've always done it & we don't feel like changing." What is the real issue behind your unwillingness to explore ideas that go beyond the scope of your opinion? Why do you consider yourself right & the rest of us are wrong? Are you afraid of change because it might burst your bubble in regards to what is right/wrong, black/white in your own life?

Just pondering why the subject is such a hotbed of people getting their panties in a wad.

 

[organicmama]

Hey, I have an idea-let's all eat some of organicmama's poo-poo grapes that have been irradiated to kill the critters...how's that for compromise?:clap_1:

I appreciate your honesty on the DDT issue

Nutrition is taught poorly. I feel that I could have spent alot less time learning about mundane biochem pathways and more in areas such as nutrition. I do push breastfeeding on new moms, I will have you know

You have really intrigued me regarding what toxin got your hubby:scratch: Based on the few details you have given, I bet rheumatologists, neurologists and endocrinologists were all involved and failed to make a diagnosis and you found one elsewhere...just a guess That is how the oddball afflictions tend to run.

And quit me or you will drive me to

I'll stop banging you over the head. If I don't, I might be partaking also!:clap_1: I'm too tired to go get the other smileys. I've got some good poo-poo grape wine!:funn:

Skunky, his case isn't an oddball affliction. The way it surfaced physically is kind of odd, but totally understandable in regards to his personal & family history. I talk to people on a regular basis who have the same symptoms internally and they are all tired of trying to find out what's going on. BUT each of them is carrying a big body burden of chemicals from their job or home (added with some with those stinky, poisonous air fresheners in every outlet in their office or home! ), plus stress, poor nutrition, lack of sleep, etc. I am not a doctor, so I cannot diagnose them, or even tell them what is wrong. All I can do is say, "Hey, why don't you go see Dr. _____ and get some help?" If they go, great! If they don't, that's there personal choice. If I "diagnose" them, I'll get sued possibly. Doctors, however, can do the guesswork, screw up and be covered by malpractice insurance.

BTW, we do use MDs, but we are choosy in who we see. Mr. OM has run the gamut of seeing all types, but in regards to myself and the kids, I choose very forward thinking MDs that allow the fact that I have a brain and can make informed choices.

Sadly, even though MDs like you promote breastfeeding, our society as a whole doesn't. It's hard as hell to continue on a path that people are looking at you like you are nuts, but you know you are doing the right thing for you and your children and so you continue on. That said, for those women who don't breastfeed either by choice or circumstance, I am not a breastfeeding nazi. I believe that people make the choices that are best for themselves, as I have pointed out in this thread a zillion times. Someone forcing formula on me or forcing someone to breastfeed who really doesn't want to is ludicrous. Hopefully, people can make informed choices and know their options.

But, cow's milk & soy are two of the BIG allergens, which poses a problem in regards to using formula, even organic. My nephew was on soy formula. Now he's on whole (non-organic;-) ) cow's milk & orange juice (not mixed together, I promise!). He is fed a mainly wheat (i.e., wonder bread) diet, full of other crap. He's had tubes put in his ears and he's on Zyrtec and prednisone. Ironically, even the MDs said they didn't want the child on prednisone, but my brother requested it. He still has a runny nose, as in my mother thinks it's going to fall off... it's that runny and he's sick all the time. He's barely over a year old. In trying to be diplomatic, I asked my brother & SIL if they had considered the allergy tests, not the skin prick (which has a lot of false-positives & false-negatives) but the ELISA & ACT tests which will use his blood to test a ton of food allergies to pinpoint his problems. They looked at me like I was an alien. I backed down because it's not my child. But I know that if they took into consideration his long-term health, they'd make a different decision. Neither test is paid for by insurance and they don't want to do anything out of pocket, so they will stay within the status quo. Sadly, that's not an uncommon issue.

 

[30A Skunkape]

OM, that ELISA/ACT test makes my quack detector go "QUACK, QUACK, QUACK!". I am in favor of simple things as I am a simple person. Instead of baraging neutrophils to hundreds of antigens and arriving at a list of offenders that may or may not trigger allergy, why not simple elimination diets? I know it is work, but I like to get people to selectively omit foods and KEEP A DIARY of what is going into the body and what, if any allergic type symptoms are manifest or fade away. Cheap but not as sexy as the ELISA/ACT, and certainly requires more work than most people are willing to put in. I am glad my health insurance premiums are not footing the bill for such tests.

 

[organicmama]

OM, that ELISA/ACT test makes my quack detector go "QUACK, QUACK, QUACK!". I am in favor of simple things as I am a simple person. Instead of baraging neutrophils to hundreds of antigens and arriving at a list of offenders that may or may not trigger allergy, why not simple elimination diets? I know it is work, but I like to get people to selectively omit foods and KEEP A DIARY of what is going into the body and what, if any allergic type symptoms are manifest or fade away. Cheap but not as sexy as the ELISA/ACT, and certainly requires more work than most people are willing to put in. I am glad my health insurance premiums are not footing the bill for such tests.

Totally agree that the elimination diet works the best! BUT, they aren't even willing to wonder why the heck this child is so freaking sick! They know he has allergies. But they are feeding him major allergens! If I had said, "Take him off wheat, dairy, citrus, corn & soy for a month. Then add 1 back in at a time to see which one(s) could be the culprit..." they would have really run me out of the house! Skunky, that's the whole point, people don't want to go the extra mile to do what could be done SIMPLY.

BTW, the skin prick tests are just as much quackery, as a person with sensitive skin would react to everything pretty much and a person with "tough" skin wouldn't react as much. It doesn't predict allergens any better than ELISA/ACT, although it is CHEAP, it is also a waste of time. Yeah, but your insurance will cover that one, which is why most people go that route.