New Signs on 30-A

[scooterbug44]

I like the new signs - many of the people biking/using the path only spend a couple weeks or less in Sowal and are absolutely clueless.

We have a cute little "path sweeper" but it seems not to be used very frequently. I hit quite a few patches of sand and debris left from the flooding that I am sure will cause issues for other bikers.

That one puddle in Seagrove is ALWAYS there! It's the biggie IMO as far as making people go in the road to avoid it. (Including me, but I made sure no cars were coming first.)

 

[Lake View Too]

Some of these signs are necessary. My objection to the quantity of signs comes from the confusion that they may add to the situation. I took a look this morning at the ones from Grayton to Eastern Lake Road and there were some that said "yield to user on path". I don't really know what this means. There were three signs that said "no motorized vehicles on path " in the space of fifty yards. Is that really necessary? When they fully deploy 129 of these things, it will add to the clutter and confusion.The more signs, the less visibilty for both bicyclers and motorists. I believe a more clearly defined path (with painted side lines) in the congested areas would help. The road crossings at the Wheelhouse and Eastern Lake Road need to be improved and made more attractive. Using pavers for these crosswalks would make it more clear for both the bicyclers and the motorists. In other words, maintain and improve the intuitive flow of the path with means other than too many signs, too many words.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Good points about defining the path. My personal thought is that the path should be well defined in any place where the path crosses a road or a driveway. The crossing at WaterColor is the same color as the road, yet concrete pavers, and as a driver on the road, it is totally unseen. In front of Seagrove Villas, heading east on the path, white strips are painted in the crossing of the driveway, but it appears that the path disapears head on into the bushes. I mentioned this to Commissioner Meadows when she was in office talking about these signs. She agreed, but it didn't seem to spark any fires under any butts.

How do you like this one, located in Dune Allen, near Hilltop Dr? Is it informing us that motorized vehicles aren't allowed on Hwy 30A? It sure appears to suggest that as much as it would apply to the multi-use path.

 

[Lake View Too]

Smiling Joe: Is there any one person in charge of the maintenance and upkeep of the path? Is public works the right place to add suggestions? Or do you have to try to pin down a commisioner? In just the last week, I have never seen so many OB's ('oblivious bicyclers").

 

[BeachSiO2]

Smiling Joe: Is there any one person in charge of the maintenance and upkeep of the path? Is public works the right place to add suggestions? Or do you have to try to pin down a commisioner? In just the last week, I have never seen so many OB's ('oblivious bicyclers").

It's NOT the TDC. ;-) It is either Public Works or Parks and Rec, but I am not sure which. I would start with Public Works.

 

[Beach Runner]

Only horses and buggies allowed on County Highway 30A!

As a former obsessed runner (now just obsessed), I always relied on the white stripes. I figured it out without any signs.

Good points about defining the path. My personal thought is that the path should be well defined in any place where the path crosses a road or a driveway. The crossing at WaterColor is the same color as the road, yet concrete pavers, and as a driver on the road, it is totally unseen. In front of Seagrove Villas, heading east on the path, white strips are painted in the crossing of the driveway, but it appears that the path disapears head on into the bushes. I mentioned this to Commissioner Meadows when she was in office talking about these signs. She agreed, but it didn't seem to spark any fires under any butts.

How do you like this one, located in Dune Allen, near Hilltop Dr? Is it informing us that motorized vehicles aren't allowed on Hwy 30A? It sure appears to suggest that as much as it would apply to the multi-use path.

 

[Susan Horn]

For me, aside from poor design and maintenance of the path, the biggest problem is visual clutter from too many signs. While I know all those folks putting signs everywhere are trying to help people find places or know what the rules are, we long ago reached the point of dimishing returns--so many signs now that it's actually harder to figure out the rules and find things (especially for tourists). Most of the too-many-signs are the realty signs, and I think there are better ways for those signs to be done (to better meet the goals of realtors and restore some of 30A's lost scenic character). For instance:

In Cape Cod (this was a few years back so it may have changed), each realty company had a symbol-- a lobster, a clam shell, a whale, whatever -- and each property they offered for rent had a number. So the signs marking each rental property were attractive, discreet, small, consistent and easy to understand when you knew the symbol and number you were looking for -- plus they provided free maps all over the place to assist as well. It was very easy to find your way around there, and it was truly a scenic drive (thought I don't know if they were officially designated as such). And you didn't have to read on the fly -- just spot the visual cue and a number. Way easier and faster than reading realty company names and house names.

I'm not sure how they handled for-sale signs, but I don't remember feeling confused, overwhelmed or downright assaulted by forty billion for sale signs every three feet or anything remotely like that.

There has to be a better way. There are people who are trained in how to write codes so that signs achieve the desired effect without ruining the visual landscape. I don't see why we (county) can't hire someone who knows what they're doing to find out what folks want and need in the way of signs, and then write a code that accomplishes as much as possible of it (can't please all the people all the time). We've had citizen boards writing and revising sign codes for a while, and I cannot say the result is something to be proud of. Besides that, apparently no gov't entities have to follow the codes in place (as in no pole signs on 98 and 331 south of bridge). The big blue signs, no matter what you think of them, are pole signs and last time I looked at the Secnic Corridor sign guidelines, pole signs were prohibited on 98 and 331.

I served on one of the boards that revised 98/331 Scenic Corridor sign codes some years back (begged for help from professional consultant but was told there was no budget for that), but I was not satisfied with our efforts. At the time, the board (Design Review Board) included two design professionals -- an architect and a landscape architect, both of them very talented in their fields -- but IMHO neither they nor any of the rest of us on the board had the necessary skillset for coding proper attractive signage for a highway or anywhere else.

You know the old saying, "use the right tool for the job"? Well, the tool we need is someone with training and experience in the writing of effective sign codes. And I don't mean "tool" in the way my teenage sons mean it when they say, "He's such a tool." This would enhance the views and property values as well as our daily experience and that of our visitors. IMHO.

 

[Smiling JOe]

As for maintenance, I'm not certain, but I believe Public Works is the dept in charge.

BeachRunner, please don't rely solely on the white stripes because while they are at many crossings, they aren't at all, and I don't understand why they aren't required to be painted within a certain time period after paving a road or driveway. The drainage issue on the path, most problematic in Seagrove, will be a costly fix, but it shouldn't cost much to paint stripes on the path where it crosses roads and driveways.

SusanHorn, I agree -- way too many signs. I have always thought of many signs as litter. How ironic is it that the gov't places signs noting that a fine exists for littering? Those signs are litter, IMO. We don't erect signs noting that it is illegal to murder someone, so why do we need signs stating the laws? Across the street from the Shops at Uptown Grayton, people were parking on the right of way because of the limited parking in the shopping center. This was especially true on Fridays, when people would be cashing or depositing checks at the bank. Last week, two signs were erected in that area noting "no parking," citing a County ordinance. So if it is illegal to park there, why not issue warning tickets, followed by real tickets, rather than cluttering the roadway with signs. IMO, that developement should have been required to have more parking places, but that is another issue. Are we going to see a sign erected at every location where a violation of the law occurs frequently? Seriously, how many times have you been driving down the road, thinking about throwing some trash out the window, then see the no littering signs, and just left the trash in you car, to dispose of properly, later? True safety signs are welcome by me, as are directional signs, but so many of our signs are nothing more than permanent litter, IMO.

 

[scooterbug44]

We could definitely make up any budgetary shortfalls by ticketing parking violators.

The "loading zone" in Seaside and the "compact car only" and "bumper must be inside the line" spots by the Red Bar would easily yield multiple tickets a day and wouldn't be difficult or time consuming as there are usually deputies there anyway.

 

[Matt J]

The signs don't bother me, ultimately the only way to stop stupid people from using the bike path would be a turn lane off the middle of the 331 bridge that simply says "Turn for Bay". Stops them before they get here.

How about Rodeo style shutes on either side of the bike path with guards that won't open the ends until it's all clear?

Why don't we have any of the lighted cross walks that run from just East of Destin to Hwy 393 and suddenly stop? Aren't those installed by the TDC? I find it hard to believe that there are more people crossing at Cypress Dunes than Seaside, WaterColor, or Seagrove.

Are the big blue signs Mary Browns legacy? Did the TDC already spend money on memorial plaques and that's why they can't be removed?