Petition to Ban Confederate Flag from Walton County Courthouse

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Beauford, Jun 23, 2015.

  1. poppy

    poppy Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,858
    Likes Received:
    923
    Location:
    Miramar Beach
    Oh crap Danny, be prepared for mputnal3 and Happy Camper to attack your educated source as just an opinion piece.
     
  2. seal

    seal Beach Lover

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    48
    No poppy, if you notice, I "thank" Danny on most of his posts because I agree with them. He backs up his opinions with facts. ;)

    Personally, I try my best to interact with, and view, people as individuals, equally. Not as blacks or whites or Asian or Latinos or any other distinguishing characteristics. People are people. We have much more in common as human beings than we realize. I do not and never have supported the KKK or what it stands for.

    What this debate is to me is that one side is trying to warp the truth and to divide us. Where will it end? Does anyone think that those that advocate "getting rid of that racist symbol" will stop with that? NO. Politically correct speech is killing real, honest, uncomfortable dialogue, and not communicating will only divide us further. When we are able to get uncomfortable, but truthful, topics on the table we come away with understanding and respect.

    The current engineering of dividing us black vs white, Democrat vs Republican, natural citizens vs immigrants serves no good purpose and only weakens our nation.
     
  3. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    26,599
    Likes Received:
    2,678
    Location:
    South Walton, FL
    If politically correct = doing the right thing, being kind and just, teaching your children respect and appreciation for others, overcoming racism... Then I'm for it. But I think politically correct is just a dumb phrase. Just call it what it is. Making a good choice in your actions and words.. Being thoughtful. Listening. Doing. Making a difference. Accepting that there are others who are effected by your actions and words.
     
  4. poppy

    poppy Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,858
    Likes Received:
    923
    Location:
    Miramar Beach
    Happy Camper Dr. Ortiz provided plenty of facts the only difference is you didn't like them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  5. seal

    seal Beach Lover

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    48
    Correct. Because his (Ortiz) frame of reference is that of a "foreigner", meaning he's not from the South, (assume) he does not have Southern heritage. Further, much of why the Southern men who fought under the flag, fought because the Union armies were on their lands. It's the same principle as the US trying to dictate how people living in the Middle East (or anywhere outside of the US) should live their lives. They don't "hate us because we are free", many of them hate us because we are there.

    As Professor Shelby Foote said, the Northern or the Southern soldier didn't give a damn about slavery. The Southerns thought they were fighting the Second American Revolution and because these foreign soldiers were on their land, and the Northern soldiers were fighting because they thought they were preserving the Union.

    Teresa, maybe I did make my point clear. If, being polically correct, we banish the flag, how will kids coming up even see it and ask "what's that?"? You would miss an opportunity to share what we were as a nation and how we have progressed and we are much further along in recognizing that "people are people". If we allow that flag to only be co-opted by white supremacists it is not truthful historically.

    But removing any and all things that make someone "uncomfortable" further removes an opportunity to discuss, learn, and grow closer. Political correctness pushes individuals further apart. At my core, I seek peace and understanding with others, but I enjoy and understand how vigorous, respectful debate can further bring that about.

    Free speech is diametrically opposed to political correctness. I will always fight for free speech. And I am officially done with this topic....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2015
  6. poppy

    poppy Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,858
    Likes Received:
    923
    Location:
    Miramar Beach
    I am from the south in fact I spent the first 56 years of my life in Memphis, Tn the home of Nathan Bedford Forrest and Shelby Foote. I grew up with the history people are now trying to gloss over, whitewash, or simply rewrite.
     
  7. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    26,599
    Likes Received:
    2,678
    Location:
    South Walton, FL
    Happy Camper, you are saying you want the flag to stay? You are saying a lot of things but not sure what your stance is.

    Some believe it's time to take it down. I am satisfied that the flag is not flying over Florida's state capital. I would rather not have it on our county courthouse. But it was put up in 1964 during civil rights and desegregation. And apparently it's a lot harder to take down than to put it up. It is probably here to stay.

    I feel it's time has come. But that's just one person's belief. It has nothing to do with being politically correct. It has everything to do with people.
     
  8. Danny Glidewell

    Danny Glidewell Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    558
    Location:
    Glendale
    Once again Teresa, the flag DOES NOT fly over the courthouse. There is a rather large US flag in the center of the lawn with the Florida flag that flies over the courthouse. The Confederate flag flies over a memorial to Confederate dead that is located to the side of the courthouse. I really think that impugning the motives of men for a decision made over 50 years ago with no proof is a disservice to their memory, as they are all long dead, as well as their families. I do know one thing, this was not an issue a short time ago when the memorial was rededicated and only became an issue in a misguided attempt to "feel good" about the evil, horrific acts of a monster. I wonder what the reaction would have been had the monster taken a photo holding a gay pride flag or an ISIS flag? That is the essence of politically correct. And before it is said, I realize that neither of those examples is flying in the courthouse lawn. But this attack on the Confederate memorial in Walton County is not being conducted in a vacuum. It is part and parcel with the removal of the Dukes of Hazzard from TV, painting over the flag on one of the original cars from the series, removing General Forrest's remains from his grave, a movement to change the names of various military bases, refusing to sell the flag in Walmart and other outlets and dozens of other attempts to whitewash history. And that is exactly what it is. I have been accused of "whitewashing" history when by definition a whitewash is a removal of all evidence of something that actually happened. Slavery happened. I am shamed by the fact that such happened in history. But if we removed all evidence of that occurrence then how will future generations learn that such evil has existed and we must remain vigilant to prevent it ever happening again?
     
  9. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    26,599
    Likes Received:
    2,678
    Location:
    South Walton, FL
    I realize the flag is over the memorial on the site of the court house. The memorial was originally placed without a confederate flag. A flag was added in 1964. No one is suggesting to remove the memorial or anything else.
     
  10. Danny Glidewell

    Danny Glidewell Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    558
    Location:
    Glendale
    I am certainly not angry, and I certainly care. We just have a difference of opinion as to what the "right thing" is on this issue. There will be other issues for other days
     
  11. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    26,599
    Likes Received:
    2,678
    Location:
    South Walton, FL
    I'm seeing anger towards others for their differing views.. that's unnecessary. You choose a stance. And that's it. Flag or no flag. That is the only issue.
     
  12. Jdarg

    Jdarg SoWal Expert

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    18,069
    Likes Received:
    1,960
    Guess who was spotted in Rosemary today?

    John Schneider, no lie!
     
  13. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    26,599
    Likes Received:
    2,678
    Location:
    South Walton, FL
    No way!
     
  14. Jdarg

    Jdarg SoWal Expert

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    18,069
    Likes Received:
    1,960
    Way!! Wonder if he is coming to the BCC meeting on Tuesdsy? Maybe he will bring the General Lee!
     
  15. poppy

    poppy Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,858
    Likes Received:
    923
    Location:
    Miramar Beach
    If you have a problem with companies or individuals making decisions about their personal property or licensing rights you need to take it up with them.
     
  16. Danny Glidewell

    Danny Glidewell Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    558
    Location:
    Glendale
    Come on Poppy, pointing out someone's actions does not in any way mean that I am trying to infringe in any way whatsoever on their rights to do with their property what they want.
     
  17. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,091
    Likes Received:
    184
    Teresa, being politically correct does not equal doing the right thing by a long shot. If you want to be socially correct and respect blacks in general then hire them in your businesses, invite them over for dinner, take them fishing or hunting, have conversations etc. I have done all these things and more! All those that are so adamant about removing the confederate flag give us your stories of respect toward blacks. Yes, I am challenging Dawn, Poppy, Leader of the Banned, Jdarg and everyone who believe that they have the moral high ground on the issue of the confederate flag and Southern Heritage.

    While giving us those stories maybe share some "historical facts" about the Northern military leaders like Sheridan and Sherman and even Grant. Please, I invite you to read about the rape and destruction that was inflicted on Southern White and Black women by northern soldiers. If you are not sick to your stomach by then then please read on about the northern opportunists that came down to the south with shameless greed.

    Again, Mr. Ortiz I wait for your explanation of why you chose to use a one sided recollection of historical events to help make your point of removing the confederate flag which many of us have already conceded as the right thing to do to show sensitivity and respect. Your position as an educator of our young people leaves a lot to be desired unless you can explain that letter to all those confederate soldiers who died fighting for their land and for each other AND the thousands of white southern women who were raped by northern soldiers.
     
  18. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    26,599
    Likes Received:
    2,678
    Location:
    South Walton, FL
    I don't agree with being politically correct. Being politically correct is shallow and meaningless. But I do believe in people. No one is claiming a moral high ground. They are expressing their opinions on the flag and not the entire history of the confederacy. Same with Mr. Ortiz who expressed his opinion on the one issue. You can surely look and respectfully listen to the opinions of others without having to agree with them or accept them.
     
  19. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,091
    Likes Received:
    184
    Teresa, when you go back and read all the posts in this thread and others it should be obvious who has respect and who does not have respect for an opposing viewpoint. I also believe in people and will always reach out to those who disagree with me in an effort to be respectful. I would like to have a conversation with Mr. Ortiz to give him a chance to explain why he chose to be so one sided in stating civil war atrocities. I do not try to insult people and I believe that everything I have read in this thread on the confederate side have been very respectful. If you do not see the disrespect then you may be somewhat biased by your position (I am sure I do the same thing). Of course I do not know anything about you or these other posters that choose a more divisive method to communicate. I do believe that you try to understand and listen to both sides but I am confused why you posted the Ortiz letter.
     
  20. poppy

    poppy Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,858
    Likes Received:
    923
    Location:
    Miramar Beach
    Give it up Teresa, he's clueless.
     

Share This Page