Petition to Ban Confederate Flag from Walton County Courthouse

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Beauford, Jun 23, 2015.

  1. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Yes poppy I am clueless to why you choose to insult me and others in this forum who disagree with you. I am clueless to why you choose to blame the South Carolina shooting on the confederate flag without any discussion on mental health and gun safety. I have challenged you to give us at least one example other than your support of removing the confederate flag of how you respect black people and to recite your knowledge of Sheridan, Sherman and Grant's respect toward women, children, homes, historic buildings, monuments, infratructure, etc. War is probably much closer to evil that any of us would like to admit. I do not have any expectations of gaining your respect but I am still waiting to hear from Mr. Ortiz regarding why he chose to recite only one side of such a terrible war.
     
  2. poppy

    poppy Banned

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    As I said, clueless. You're going to have to re-fight the Civil War alone.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  3. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

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    The Ortiz letter was recently published locally as a recommendation to the Walton County BCC, and I believe also published in the Walton Sun last week. It was written to our county, so I believe it's a valid piece regarding what is going on here (whether you like it or not). It is an "opinion" of one person. I don't believe you should read into its intentions otherwise.

    I have totally learned a lot out of this issue!!! Yes, there are some who are very respectful here who can be counted on for providing good, direct information without putting down the ideas of others. Truly appreciate those efforts.
     
  4. Zebraspots

    Zebraspots Beach Fanatic

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    Regardless of your personal feelings or unique slant on history, it is ridiculous to fly the Confederate flag on public land in 2015.

    You may display it on your private property, but it has no place on public property, for serious historical and cultural reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum.

    I find it very telling that some would dismiss Professor Ortiz's letter because they assume he isn't from here and thus can't fully understand the issue. Yes, his letter expressed an "opinion," but it was the educated opinion of a well known and respected professor of history, who cited facts and sources to back up that opinion.
     
  5. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    The point I am trying to make about the Ortiz letter is that since he "stated" his position as a history professor, the intent may or may not have been one of "I know better than you people what is right and wrong here and therefore believe that the flag should be removed from the memorial". Otherwise why didn't he just give his name and say that he personally believes that the flag should be removed out of respect for those that died in the shooting? In his long letter he mentioned only atrocities on one side which indicates a bias because the truth is that both sides raped and killed innocent defenseless people and destroyed property unnecessarily. I understand his opinion but I believe he opened himself up for criticism by stating his position as an "educator".
     
  6. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

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    He opened up the letter by stating this was his opinion on the issue. Also, he opened himself up for criticism just by writing the letter at all. I applaud him or anyone from either side who takes the time out of their day to do so.
     
  7. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Do you believe that you know better than Walton County Citizens with a long history of living in this county regarding what to do with the confederate flag? Mr. Ortiz was talking about the battle of Olustee and other selected battles outside of Walton County which also seems a little ridiculously one sided and not exactly relevant unless he has personally spoken with Walton County Citizens that had relatives in the Civil War. I think it would be respectful of Mr. Ortiz to explain why he selectively recited those war atrocities.
     
  8. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    You and I have taken a lot of time out of our day(s) to have an opinion about this. Mr. Ortiz is not more or less than any other person with a desire to express their opinion. Yes, he is educated in history but I do not think he has talked to one Walton County citizen with a history in this county. If I am wrong about this then I hope that he will correct me.

    This whole thing to remove the flag has simply missed the chance to discuss human behavioral problems. This whole discussion is really about something else entirely. It is a chance for some to use a tragedy to somehow support their idealism or prejudice against another group of people. I think this country is divided not so much by North or South but by Liberal and Conservative. Every day they grow farther and farther apart. I try to stay in the middle but I admit to being drawn in by just shear emotional reaction to what I believe to be right. Humans are flawed and it seems that politics have figured out how to use that to their advantage. We need a Moderate Political Party but true moderate thinkers are hard to find. If I could just understand why you posted Mr. Ortiz's letter or why you applaud him so much I just might vote for you.
     
  9. liz coats

    liz coats Beach Comber

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    Some of us believe that "doing the right ting, being kind and just, teaching your children respect and appreciation for others", etc. doesn't equate to believing in exactly the same values as so called progressives. Some of the progressives on this very forum ridicule those of us who are Christians or of some other faith and make fun of our traditional values. I've never displayed the Confederate battle flag but I'm not offended by it. On the other hand I'm offended by attempts to erase history and the desecration of historic sites and the graves of historic figues in the South. But of course, what offends me and some other southerners doesn't count. And BTW, I'm one of those "racists" who supports Ben Carson for president.
     
  10. Danny Glidewell

    Danny Glidewell Beach Fanatic

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    A little information about Professor Paul Ortiz from the University of Florida's website:

    "Professor Ortiz is currently the faculty adviser for UF chapter of the Dream Defenders, Students for a Democratic Society, the Venezuelan Students Association & CHISPAS."

    For those who have written here and elsewhere that this is only about a flag and that no one wants to take down memorials and statues, you might want to look at CHISPAS UF's Facebook page:

    https://www.facebook.com/chispasuf/photos/a.215602945302064.1073741828.203932659802426/372260229636334/?type=1

    The Dream Defenders describes itself as: " The Dream Defenders develop the next generation of radical leaders to realize and exercise our independent collective power."

    Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) is a United States student organization representing left wing beliefs.

    This is only the beginning and individuals like Professor Ortiz have an agenda that is decidedly left wing and socialist. If you support him, that is your right. But please spare us the claim that he is some sort of unbiased history professor. As the old saying goes, "He's got a dog in the hunt."
     
  11. Jdarg

    Jdarg SoWal Expert

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    Progressive is never a bad word. Progress is what built our nation.
     
  12. poppy

    poppy Banned

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    Who is trying or even suggesting we erase history?
     
  13. Danny Glidewell

    Danny Glidewell Beach Fanatic

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    I have no problem with progressive. It is radical, socialist, fascist that I have a problem accepting.
     
  14. Cuff

    Cuff Beach Lover

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    Danny, since you are so good at researching please let us know why Jefferson Davis was captured wearing his wife's clothes. My point is that neither Professor Ortiz's or Jefferson Davis's leanings amount to a hill of beans in whether that symbol of human bondage should fly on publicly owned property.
     
  15. poppy

    poppy Banned

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    Fascist and Socialist in the same sentence? They are each other's worst enemies.
     
  16. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

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    Everyone is welcome to share their opinions. To do so while respecting other opinions is apparently quite impossible for some. Your statements reflect on no one but yourself.
     
  17. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

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    Mput.. You don't have to like the letter. I didn't applaud it, though I appreciated it. I shared it. It was addressed to the Walton County BCC as a result of locals petition as mentioned at the very first part of this thread. Very relevant. But you need not love it. I get it. Promise.

    This issue has always been near and dear to my heart.
     
  18. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Cuff, do you know any humans that were "bondaged" by the Confederate Flag? Many Southerners fly that flag to memorialize Confederate Soldiers or represent Southern Traditions that has NOTHING to do with racism or slavery and EVERYTHING to do with respect for hard work and strong family values. Why is that so hard to accept? How is that flag hurting you? Each time someone misrepresents the Confederate flag as a symbol for slavery and racism it just awakens the Spirit of the South because we know it is NOT true. Out of respect for African Americans I personally would remove the flag from the courthouse but I will fully support and respect Walton County if they choose not to. Also, because I am determined to support Southern Traditions in the wake of all this political hypocrisy I have just purchased two Confederate Flags that I will fly proudly on my property.
     
  19. Danny Glidewell

    Danny Glidewell Beach Fanatic

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    Poppy, the Nazi Party was officially the National Socialist German Workers Party. Mussolini's party was the National Fascist Party. They were allies, hardly each other's worst enemy. Fascism and communism both promote the state at the expense of the individual. Socialism is a cousin. Anarchy is the exact opposite, promoting the individual at the expense of the state. Libertarian is a cousin.
     
  20. liz coats

    liz coats Beach Comber

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    "Progressive" is only a word. People on the left have decided they don't like the word "liberal".
     

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