Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Beauford, Jun 23, 2015.
There's no place like a holier than thou place. :roll:
there are three here who would disagree with you, ONLY THEIR opinions matter and are correct. They all where obviously raised in a barn, since there always hollering over everyone else's opinions which are all wrong for the last 5 years.....don't we all wish we where that smart?? NO
You know, steel1man, you kinda hit it.
Resist stooping to the level of your opposition lest you get covered in dung also.
Well, some people are sure to behave in such a way that their opinions are automatically rejected or ignored. That's their problem.
Signed! You don't have to sign. But some of us do. I've never liked seeing this flag flying publicly and I never understood why it was still flying in my South. It does not represent Southern pride in my life in the least. I'm sorry it's come to represent racism and bigotry but it has, thanks to KKK, southern governers over the years using it as a middle finger to the world, and the like. When I see it flying publicly, it hurts ME on behalf of a lot of great people who have to also see it and bear it. It's a small step - taking it down. But it matters.
Please feel free to fly it high in your front yard. Put it on your car and by all means get some bed sheets. That is what free speech is all about. I'm all for it.
I am not a Southerner. I was born in the West and have always considered myself a Westerner. I was raised in an intregated school system, though admittedly, except for sports there was little socializing between the races. Nevertheless we all got along. I understand why some wish to fly the Confederate flag. In my mind, not being a supporter of either side regarding the Civil war, I see it has a way to honor the fallen soldiers who died defending what they believed in, faulty though it may have been. It amazes me that the flag was never a strong issue until the horrendous killings recently in Charleston SC. The only flag we should care about being flown is one with a blue backround including white stars in the upper left hand corner and 13 red and white stripes projecting from it. The American Flag is under attack by the likes of Lewis Farrahkhan who says it should be eliminated. Nothing could be further from the truth. If Farrakhan and his followers don't believe in the American way, let them take their beliefs and move to another country not as great as ours.
I am from the South and believe me when I tell you that Southerners do not know their own history. The history books were so glossed over. Families avoid all real discussion. It's a history that needs telling. And we need to listen. Our confederate memorials are part of the story. Our museums are also treasures. I'm sorry the flag has been used in such a way that it represents something it shouldn't. It's a painful reminder to many who know what it stands for.
People say the flag represents their Southern Pride. No. Southern Pride is about our beautiful traditions, wonderful people, the good life in our communities beyond the confederate flag.
And there are a couple who constantly whine and complain when other posters simply disagree with them.
Steel1man, how does one "holler" on a public forum, use all caps?
But we do know our history in regard to the Confederate flag. It was a fading memory until it became the renewed symbol of racism shortly after the Supreme Court's decision in Brown vs. Board of Education. Contrary to what Andy may believe the anti-flag movement isn't new. Removing these flags has been ongoing for decades. The Charleston shooting only served to energize the public in demanding it's removal from publicly owned buildings and spaces.
Agree with all you are saying. But, I promise you many Southerners did not really remember or want to remember how the flag was used over the last 50 years. It's not something we want to know about. It's easier to just choose not to acknowledge it's symbolism or impact. Maybe they have a point. Maybe we give it too much power.
I think that you are right in saying it wasn't something we, as average white southerners, we were consciously aware of, and that's really the point. A large segment of our country were feeling oppressed by the symbolism of this flag, either subconsciously or consciously. It's one thing to be fearful of a pickup truck with gun racks and a rebel flag flying from the tailgate. But then to walk into your courthouse, expecting to be treated equal, and seeing the same flag waving...
I'm white, and it is not guilt that make me want to take down the flag. It's common decency.
I would hope that you will continue this use of common decency in posting anything in this forum. By the way I agree with you that taking down the confederate flag at the courthouse is the right thing to do however:
If you are white or black and was taught respect for ALL people the confederate flag should only represent a memorial. If you are white or black and was NOT taught respect for ALL people then I am sure it represents something else entirely. There are people on this forum that have admitted in having NO respect for these fallen soldiers. There are a handful of people on this forum that are extremely reactive, apathetic and judgmental yet I agree that even their opinion matters. It would be nice if they could just tone it down a little but it sounds like it is okay to be disrespectful or judgmental as long as you do not use profanity. I just think our expectations should be a little higher on this forum.
I have come to realize that most people misunderstand what it means to be from South and with all our Southern Heritage. You can try and explain things like Southern Pride or even the Confederate flag but they really do not want to know. Understanding that we are in this very divisive era I do agree that the confederate flag must come down. I can not help to be sad about this. I feel like a very important part of history is being lost and even trashed. Future generations will be taught that the confederate flag was symbolic for slavery, racism and bigotry and therefore was finally taken down. This is wrong and it is hard to swallow but if we don't take down the confederate flag a wave of unbridled hatred will continue to grow and the South will continue being the scape goat for slavery, racism and bigotry. I guess the truth will probably end with my generation.
I find it very telling of our culture that in the weeks after yet another mass shooting, instead of having a heartfelt discussion about reasonable gun control measures and mental health services in this country, we are talking about a flag. Regardless of where you stand on the flag issue, removing the flag from various courthouses is not going to be what prevents another mass shooting, something that is becoming a distinctly 'American-style' tragedy. It does make for a great distraction issue so we can all pat ourselves on the back and feel good about doing something that accomplishes nothing. If we are going to remove the Confederate flag because some people find it hurtful and offensive, fine. But I feel like we as Americans will do what we always do. We will take down this flag, wipe our hands on our jeans, and declare the problem solved, and not discuss any of the HARD issues, until perhaps our next mass shooting incident in a month or two.
It's so hard to have a discussion in our culture without everything becoming so "all or nothing." I am in favor of basic gun safety requirements, like requiring extensive training classes to own a gun, and requiring conceal carry permit holders to have to pass accuracy and safety tests every 3 years to maintain their permit. But somehow, anytime I bring any of that stuff up, I become some dirty liberal here to take everyone's 'God-given' gun rights away, despite living in a household myself that contains guns, despite having taken conceal carry classes myself. As a nation, we rarely even make it so far as to discuss changes in our mental health services, because we get hung up on screaming at each other about the guns.
The fact remains that while mass shootings do happen in other countries, they happen in America with an alarming frequency that doesn't befall other first world nations. Removing some flags isn't going to change it.
I agree. The confederate flag issue is a way for society to not take responsibility for mental health and basic gun safety requirements.
Great points. The flag issue is a distraction from some very serious issues.
Removing that flag from public property is imperative. Gun control, addressing the mental health of this country are extremely necessary too. They are not exclusive of one or the other. They hold hands and pump each other up. They were compadres to that miserable monster in South Carolina. That flag is a symbol of slavery , lynchings and the vilest of mankind. Put it on your car in your yard on your clothes on your hat and in a museum. And please , no more lectures that I am too dumb or insensitive to understand southern heritage. I grew up in the south. I've never seen the swastika flying on any government property in Germany although there is a certain skinhead bunch there that proclaims that is their heritage. We never ever want to forget about slavery or Nazi's but please let's not honor or fly an abhorrent symbol proudly.
The time for talking about this is over. It is a time for action .
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