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Matt J

SWGB
May 9, 2007
24,643
9,496
Please go back and read your original post specifically this part:

SB6 Punishment of Teachers Bill Passed in the Middle of the NIght

As these things so often go in Tallahassee, the House version of SB6 passed in the middle of the night last night.

These statements are not founded in fact - they are "political chum".

Your disclaimer of the basis of the post does not reflect reality.

All of this reminds me of the "Teabaggers" and Republican political pundits that predicted the health care reform was passed in the middle of the night and would destroy healthcare. The Bill was signed and everyone woke up the next morning and the world had not come to an end.

I have been a registered republican for all of my life and am shocked by the politicization of the issue, just as I am shocked when main stream Democrats now employ the same tactics that they attacked.

Guess I'm getting old but I long for "statesman" rather than "politicians".

You need to place a "political disclaimer" on this post. Talking points and spin.

After you said it was incorrect and then proceeded to do nothing but blast Democrats and rail against the politicizing of a political issue (Republicans supported the bill and Democrats did not feel free to look at the voting record, and yes I'm aware that like most things there are a few cross party line votes) could you point out where the misstatement was?

P.S. I'm sorry that the Aricept is apparently no longer working. I hope you and your Doctors are able to find an alternative treatment.
 

30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,846
3,471
56
Right here!
According to what I've read about SB6, well performing teachers would actually make more money than they currently do now under the old ladder system. This is significant, particularly for younger, newer teachers, who currently are restricted through the current pay system from making better wages. This could potentially attract a whole new class of teacher to the state - educators who are confident they can excel and improve test scores of the kids they teach. That's a big win for the state.

A couple other notes -

Current research on experimental merit systems in other states similar to SB6 show these systems having a positive impact on the quality of education -

Dollars and sense: what a Tennessee experiment tells us about merit pay | Education Next | Find Articles at BNET

It's also interesting to note President Obama supports merit pay. (We recently missed out on a large federal grant the Obama Administration set up for merit pay states.)

All in all, this seems like a smart, new framework on how we structure pay levels in our school systems. It's concerning to me that the main source of opposition to this bill is coming from the unions. Why would they be against better pay for good teachers?
 

GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,816
1,921
Unions are not against better pay; nor are teachers. It is the methods being called for by this bill that are some of the problems; the others are the standarized testing; lack of credit for experience and education; and on and on.

The real problem, though, IMO, is the back story: wait and see which company gets the contract for the test that will have to be developed at who knows what cost to the people of Florida!

and as far as "passed in the middle of the night" there is more to that story too: it was passed only after the legislature adjourned for the night, and immediately reconvened, in order to get it to the Governor at a time when he would have the least amount of time before either signing, vetoing it; or letting it become law w/out his signature.

There is almost nothing about this that is a positive thing for Florida's children and education system! and, it has nothing to do with merit pay as defined by President Obama.
 

30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,846
3,471
56
Right here!
Unions are not against better pay; nor are teachers. It is the methods being called for by this bill that are some of the problems; the others are the standarized testing; lack of credit for experience and education; and on and on.

The real problem, though, IMO, is the back story: wait and see which company gets the contract for the test that will have to be developed at who knows what cost to the people of Florida!

and as far as "passed in the middle of the night" there is more to that story too: it was passed only after the legislature adjourned for the night, and immediately reconvened, in order to get it to the Governor at a time when he would have the least amount of time before either signing, vetoing it; or letting it become law w/out his signature.

There is almost nothing about this that is a positive thing for Florida's children and education system! and, it has nothing to do with merit pay as defined by President Obama.


I can't find anything on this at all. Here's a good breakdown of the bill, it doesn't sound very "end of the world" to me..

The Details of Merit Pay for Teachers - Wakulla County news, information, politics, entertainment, schools and sports
 

Dave Rauschkolb

Beach Fanatic
Jul 13, 2005
1,006
790
Santa Rosa Beach
A climate of Fear for our Teachers

This is the most draconian legislation regarding education imaginable creating a climate of fear for our educators to operate in. There are ways to empower our teachers in a positive manner. There are ways to empower our children in a positive manner and the two are inexorably linked. Let's not forget who is the co-sponser of this bill: Don Gaetz

Dave Rauschkolb
 

Busta Hustle

Beach Fanatic
Apr 11, 2007
434
34
You tend to have draconian laws when you are facing draconian budget cuts. Taxes would nerver support Aristotle in the class room. He would cost a fortune with this new law. But then I'm sure they'll find a way not pay him what he's worth.
 

GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,816
1,921
Veto SB6

Paul Ruscher: SB 4 is a step forward; SB 6 is not | tallahassee.com | Tallahassee Democrat

SB 6 just needs his veto. DOE should have learned its lesson — listen to what has been happening in a transformational way in Hillsborough County, where teachers have been actively engaged in the reform movement. SB 6 takes us back rather than moving us forward. The state's universities have been moving ahead in reforming the way that we prepare the next generation of math and science teachers, but I don't see DOE or the Legislature being a full partner in this effort. Rather their efforts at reform seem blinded by the bright light of private foundations populated by partisan former state officials.

http://www.newsherald.com/articles/editorial-82939-merit-pay.html
The current legislation is doomed to fail because it maintains the current centralization of education and gives teachers even more incentive to “teach to the test.” It also raises the possibility that good teachers won’t be justly compensated because of the bureaucracy’s inability to construct an accurate and fair merit system. That’s reason enough why Gov. Crist should veto this bill.

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/crist-should-veto-teacher-tenure-bill/1086346
Republicans backing the bill have painted opponents as liberal Democrats or sycophants for the politically active teachers union, the Florida Education Association. But the reality is more nuanced and the opposition more bipartisan than that. Some teachers interviewed at protests in the Tampa Bay area have identified themselves as Republicans. Four Republican Tampa Bay House members were among the 11 who had the gumption to stand up to party leaders and vote against the bill early Friday morning: Faye Culp of Tampa, Ed Homan of Tampa, Peter Nehr of Tarpon Springs and Ron Schultz of Homosassa.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/04/06/1565023/get-it-right.html
Among the fixes needed:

• Get beyond standardized testing. The FCAT has helped close the gap between poor and better-off students, but that's not a test that can be used to gauge student improvement -- and thereby teacher effectiveness -- for all subjects. New tests will have to be devised to track students' yearlong improvements. The reform bill must specify objective measures. It shouldn't rely solely on a school principal's analysis to decide a teacher's suitability either.

• Come up with the money. Implementing new tests will take time and money. Florida missed out on the first round of awards for the federal Race to the Top grant, which would have provided between $700 million and $1 billion for teacher training. Delaware and Tennessee, which Florida Education Commissioner Eric Smith says have rules to tie student achievement to teacher compensation, won the grants. So how would Florida provide for training in this new merit plan? District budgets already are stretched past their limits.

• Value advanced degrees and certificates. The proposed reforms give little credit to teachers who have master's or doctorate degrees or have passed National Board Certification. Surely, knowledge matters -- particularly if it's tied to a teacher's subject areas. What's the incentive to continue to improve if degrees and certificates count little?
 
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30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,846
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Right here!
The Legislature’s merit-pay bill remains vague about how to achieve that. It stipulates that teachers would receive “increases” in their base salary for student “learning gains,” as well as annual “adjustments” for working in “high priority locations,” teaching in “critical teacher shortage areas” or taking on additional academic responsibilities. Those terms are undefined. The State Board of Education would set the details at a later date, before the program is implemented in the 2014-15 school year.

^^ Interesting, that's the same way the new health care bill was designed, benefits are TBD by a government oversight board.
 
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GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,816
1,921
^^ Interesting, that's the same way the new health care bill was designed, benefits are TBD by a government oversight board.

So, just because that is questionable, we should go ahead and accept this? .I guess I would just like to see as many people upset about education as are upset about health care...
 
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