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elgordoboy

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2007
2,537
570
I no longer stay in Dune Allen
A lot around the corner from me sold recently ($70k). It was from a bank to an individual and it is listed as a "qualified" sale on the pa site. I am under the impression that "qualified" means it is a regular transaction of the "arm length" variety being discussed, is this correct? I would have paid half again what this property was sold for had it been on the open market, and some would've paid double. It is apparent to me that this property should not be used as a comp. But my understanding of the "U" and the "Q" may be skewed.
 
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traderx

Beach Fanatic
Mar 25, 2008
2,133
467
Yes, Qualified sale means arms length transaction.

Below is definition of Qualified sale on the WaltonPA website:

Field Descriptions

Qualification
Because the Property Appraiser's office uses actual sale transactions when analyzing property values in utilizing the comparable sales method of valuation (one of the methods used in considering value), it is important that we use only sales that represent an ''arms length'' transaction. That is - a sale of property between a knowledgeable buyer and a knowledgeable seller with no undue influence that may have affected the price.

The sale qualification applied by this office makes no judgement value about the parcel's sale transaction except to say that we will or will not use it in our analysis because the sale price ''may'' have been affected by some other influence besides the fair market price.

For example, a parcel sold by parents to their children ''may'' have been sold for a price lower than the parents could have gotten on the open market. A seller who agrees to finance the sale to the buyer personally is more likely to sell at a higher price than the market because of the extra service, and the buyer more likely to pay more for the same reason. In both of these cases, we would choose not to use these sales for analytical purposes because they may not accurately represent the market.
 

melscuba

Beach Fanatic
Apr 22, 2009
260
38
Roswell, Ga hoping SoWal someday
Question about lot price vs. value

I'm new to this so I apologize if I've done something wrong! I have a question regarding lot values. My husband and I have been watching the real estate market on 30-A since 2005. We love the area and are looking to make a long term investment there... more specifically in Watercolor. We are currently looking at lots in Phase II... WOW what a range of pricing! The prices are all over the place. In reading this thread I noticed a discussion on this very topic in a different development. How do I know what to offer the seller? Yes, all the lots we are considering are in either short sale or foreclosure. That being said the price spread is still $135,000. The lots are similar enough in size and two of them are right across the street from one another. Can we (being you guys and myself) begin a discussion? I do have an experienced realtor I'm working with, but as with any major decision, I would prefer to hear from more than one professional. Thanks for your help.
 

Bobby J

Beach Fanatic
Apr 18, 2005
4,043
599
Blue Mountain beach
www.lifeonshore.com
The various range in pricing is what is making our business not so funn. It is very confusing for a buyer. It also seems that many sellers still have a price based on what they purchased the property at or what they have in it. Unfortunately, short sales and foreclosure are becoming or are the market. We can debate this until the cows come home but the reality is if I am going to throw my money in I want the same or better deal then the last guy. In order to establish a value of the lot you are looking at take a look at solids for the last 3 months. Many appraisers will use the past 6 months but remember you are the buyer. If no sales in the past 3 months, the prices are too high. Also look at actives. The active prices are a good indicator of where the value is headed. If you have competing active listings that are much lower price then the piece you are looking at the seller of the higher price probably falls in the above category. Not a real seller. He may be within time but not yet.
 

melscuba

Beach Fanatic
Apr 22, 2009
260
38
Roswell, Ga hoping SoWal someday
The various range in pricing is what is making our business not so funn. It is very confusing for a buyer. It also seems that many sellers still have a price based on what they purchased the property at or what they have in it. Unfortunately, short sales and foreclosure are becoming or are the market. We can debate this until the cows come home but the reality is if I am going to throw my money in I want the same or better deal then the last guy. In order to establish a value of the lot you are looking at take a look at solids for the last 3 months. Many appraisers will use the past 6 months but remember you are the buyer. If no sales in the past 3 months, the prices are too high. Also look at actives. The active prices are a good indicator of where the value is headed. If you have competing active listings that are much lower price then the piece you are looking at the seller of the higher price probably falls in the above category. Not a real seller. He may be within time but not yet.

So if we really preferred one of the higher priced lots could my realtor approach the seller with the argument of other active listings' prices being much lower and therefore we are approaching this lot with that in mind? You are right in that I don't want to pay more than the neighbor... or the next guy! There is lien holder approval required on these lots and I understand that can be a lengthy process.

Naturally my realtor will need to give me recent sales. I suspect there won't be a lot to comp. in the last three months... or even six that would match current prices. I am the same as any buyer.... I want to be smart about my investment and feel confident in the transaction.

I appreciate your input and look forward to other opinions... thanks!

On a side note... are you the same surfing enthusiast that writes editorials for the 30-A Review?
 
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traderx

Beach Fanatic
Mar 25, 2008
2,133
467
So if we really preferred one of the higher priced lots could my realtor approach the seller with the argument of other active listings' prices being much lower and therefore we are approaching this lot with that in mind? You are right in that I don't want to pay more than the neighbor... or the next guy! There is lien holder approval required on these lots and I understand that can be a lengthy process.

Naturally my realtor will need to give me recent sales. I suspect there won't be a lot to comp. in the last three months... or even six that would match current prices. I am the same as any buyer.... I want to be smart about my investment and feel confident in the transaction.

I appreciate your input and look forward to other opinions... thanks!

On a side note... are you the same surfing enthusiast that writes editorials for the 30-A Review?

I strongly encourage you to use only sales comps as reference points to current value. Most properties on the market today are overpriced. BTW, that is true of all markets not just SoWal. It is understandably difficult for sellers in this market to come to terms with current realities.

Listed properties only tell you what price points are not selling. Get the most recent comps you can identify and then compare/adjust resales in other neighborhoods.
 

Bobby J

Beach Fanatic
Apr 18, 2005
4,043
599
Blue Mountain beach
www.lifeonshore.com
So if we really preferred one of the higher priced lots could my realtor approach the seller with the argument of other active listings' prices being much lower and therefore we are approaching this lot with that in mind? You are right in that I don't want to pay more than the neighbor... or the next guy! There is lien holder approval required on these lots and I understand that can be a lengthy process.

Naturally my realtor will need to give me recent sales. I suspect there won't be a lot to comp. in the last three months... or even six that would match current prices. I am the same as any buyer.... I want to be smart about my investment and feel confident in the transaction.

I appreciate your input and look forward to other opinions... thanks!

On a side note... are you the same surfing enthusiast that writes editorials for the 30-A Review?

That's me but keep it on the down low....:cool:

You can surely approach the seller with the other comps. Some of the problem is that the lower listing may not have any validity yet. One random short sale may not mean anything yet except for the fact it has been on the market with no offer. As a buyer that would tell me something. With a good agent and patience you should be able to determine a real value of the subject property. From there, that is your offer. If the seller can not sell, move on and find a real seller if you are in the hunt. If the lots are basically equal why are you looking at the higher priced one? Just curious?
 

melscuba

Beach Fanatic
Apr 22, 2009
260
38
Roswell, Ga hoping SoWal someday
That's me but keep it on the down low....:cool:

You can surely approach the seller with the other comps. Some of the problem is that the lower listing may not have any validity yet. One random short sale may not mean anything yet except for the fact it has been on the market with no offer. As a buyer that would tell me something. With a good agent and patience you should be able to determine a real value of the subject property. From there, that is your offer. If the seller can not sell, move on and find a real seller if you are in the hunt. If the lots are basically equal why are you looking at the higher priced one? Just curious?

See... this is why an objective person always helps. The lots really are equal. There are always pros and cons to every property. The more expensive one has a setting that is more appealing for us... offering a bit more privacy as it borders the nature preserve to the back and bike trail to one side. The "lake"/pond is across the street with no obstruction of view. It is more narrow however and might prove difficult for a carriage house which is something we would like to have. The lot diagonal and across the street is plenty large enough for a carriage house and sits on the corner so it too offers some privacy and with an nice side porch we can face our favorite street while we relax and enjoy!

Another point for us is future development of Watercolor. As the community gets built out, we suspect parking around the home will become important for renters (which we plan on doing with this property). The corner lot provides an ally access across the back whereas the more private lot could have more restricted parking.

The third lot up for consideration is in Phase II but a few streets away. Again, rear and front access, green park out front, large enough for a carriage house, etc.. It is also listed for considerably less, BUT this street is across the main drag (WLD) from the Camp pool whereas the others are not. I don't believe the location differences warrant the $135,000 difference in list price.

Lots of info., I know. But I think it helps give you a better picture and therefore more opinion. Thanks again.

And I look forward to your next article...shhh!:D
 

Lynnie

SoWal Insider
Apr 18, 2007
8,176
431
SoBuc
Inventory for the same areas.

March, 2005- 854
March, 2006- 2089
March, 2007- 2433
March, 2008- 2505
March, 2009- 2245


Wow, that inventory! That speaks mountains in my experience.

Good news, however! In Atlanta, real estate is starting to move and in certain neighborhoods, moving at asking prices which is a great sign! Burbs aren't doing as well.

Part of the problem in S. Walton Co. are the jumbo priced homes. Lending has still not recovered, particularly the jumbo loans. I've stated before that the shake out on this aspect is very good; however, the pendulum seems to be stuck for a minute. I look forward to the day it comes back center.

I have been feeling a relief lately. Anyone else? Or, am I just in la-la land? :blink:
 
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