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yippie

Beach Fanatic
Oct 28, 2005
946
42
A local
Yippie,

I have been a little backed up lately. I have not had time to read this entire thread but do understand you have been ill. Very sorry to hear about this. Was your home constructed without a moisture barrier between the siding and the plywood?

Yes. Part of the home had vinyl siding nailed to plywood with no moisture barrier and part of the home had vinyl siding nailed to an OSB type compressed board with no moisture barrier.
 

Rita

margarita brocolia
Dec 1, 2004
5,209
1,634
Dune Allen Beach
Prunes..lotsa prunes.
:rotfl: sorry I couldn't give you rep for this one ... I guess I haven't been spreading enough.
----------------------
Yippie,

Regarding the lack of moisture barrier - wouldn't that be easily proved just by having someone official checking what was there or taken out?

It would seem that the builder would have to own up to it (even if it was a subcontractor's shoddy work). It appears so obvious! Or am I missing something?


.
 

yippie

Beach Fanatic
Oct 28, 2005
946
42
A local
:rotfl: sorry I couldn't give you rep for this one ... I guess I haven't been spreading enough.
----------------------
Yippie,

Regarding the lack of moisture barrier - wouldn't that be easily proved just by having someone official checking what was there or taken out?

It would seem that the builder would have to own up to it (even if it was a subcontractor's shoddy work). It appears so obvious! Or am I missing something?


.

No, Rita, you are right on the money. We have all the proof, photos, etc. It just so happens this builder did not want to fix the problem unless he was assured HIS insurance company was going to repay him.

It has been said earlier, and I agree, we all make mistakes in business, but it all comes down to how we handle the mistake.

The builder did NOT fix the problem the he caused, but left me with the burden of filing a lawsuit against him. He did not step up to the plate and that is all it would have taken. Stepped up to the plate and corrected the defect and the damage it caused. As I said earlier, I tried to work with his insurance company for over a year before I attempted to have the problem fixed, and financed it myself. And the problem just multiplied as we began to attempt to repair it. It was much worse than anyone thought.

I would not be in the shape I am in now had the builder simply stepped up and said, we made a mistake, let me fix it. Instead, he admitted the mistake by filing claims with his insurance company, but did not correct the problem. He was too concerned with whether his company was going to reimburse him.... his back pocket, instead of having the integrity to step up to the plate.

Now, it is costing everyone a bundle and is wrapped up in court. Of course, they have brought in several subcontractors, when ultimately, IT WAS THEN, AND STILL IS NOW, ULTIMATELY THE GENERAL CONTRACTORS RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS AND HIS SUBCONTRACTORS WORKMANSHIP AND ACTIONS.

Thanks Rita for bringing the obvious of this nightmare to light.
 

seaside2

Beach Fanatic
Apr 2, 2007
785
12
All over the place
Is this house on a slab?

Is it possible that the plastic pipe used in the sewer system is broken, allowing moisure to wick itself up through the slab? Slabs are supposed to have vapor barriers but have holes all in them from pipes, tears, seams, etc. Conventional foundations allow for a visual inspection.

The photos I looked at seem to imply a constant source of water. It does not rain down there 365 days per year and drier weather tends to make the mold less. So the mold should come and go to some extent. This makes me wonder if the issue is vapor barrier related or not. Hard to diagnose with relatively little information related to the locations, relationship of the mold " hot spots" to the exterior walls, plumbing, etc.

The sewer pipes can be video taped by any number of plumbers for a relatively modest fee. You can easily see faults in most of the system.

BTW, newer construction codes in many areas require that the sewer pipes be supported by the slab using stainless steel hanger so that if the soil under the slab sinks differentially, the pipes will be supported by the slab and do not move relative to the slab. This differential movement is what breaks the pipes (unless they were damaged during construction). Sewer systems in most code areas are required to be smoke tested before the slab is poured but not after. Slab pouring can be brutal on the underground pipes, with insipient faults that may not manifest themselves for years. These faults can come from rising/falling water tables, roots, etc.

I know that you have spent a ton of money on this thing and don't relish the thought of more, but a really good registered professional mechanical engineer might be of some value.

PS: The duct board ducts are notorious for leaking cold wet air. If they leak enough, that could also be a source for the the moisture to fed the mold. FYI, the best system is NO internally insluated suct, use metal duct and seal ALL joints using duct mastic. Duct tape does NOT hold up, I don't care what the installer says. Is this more expensive? Of course, but in a bid situation with good contract documents, 3% of the HVAC cost.
 
Last edited:

yippie

Beach Fanatic
Oct 28, 2005
946
42
A local
Is this house on a slab?

Is it possible that the plastic pipe used in the sewer system is broken, allowing moisure to wick itself up through the slab? Slabs are supposed to have vapor barriers but have holes all in them from pipes, tears, seams, etc. Conventional foundations allow for a visual inspection.

The photos I looked at seem to imply a constant source of water. It does not rain down there 365 days per year and drier weather tends to make the mold less. So the mold should come and go to some extent. This makes me wonder if the issue is vapor barrier related or not. Hard to diagnose with relatively little information related to the locations, relationship of the mold " hot spots" to the exterior walls, plumbing, etc.

The sewer pipes can be video taped by any number of plumbers for a relatively modest fee. You can easily see faults in most of the system.

BTW, newer construction codes in many areas require that the sewer pipes be supported by the slab using stainless steel hanger so that if the soil under the slab sinks differentially, the pipes will be supported by the slab and do not move relative to the slab. This differential movement is what breaks the pipes (unless they were damaged during construction). Sewer systems in most code areas are required to be smoke tested before the slab is poured but not after. Slab pouring can be brutal on the underground pipes, with insipient faults that may not manifest themselves for years. These faults can come from rising/falling water tables, roots, etc.

I know that you have spent a ton of money on this thing and don't relish the thought of more, but a really good registered professional mechanical engineer might be of some value.

PS: The duct board ducts are notorious for leaking cold wet air. If they leak enough, that could also be a source for the the moisture to fed the mold. FYI, the best system is NO internally insluated suct, use metal duct and seal ALL joints using duct mastic. Duct tape does NOT hold up, I don't care what the installer says. Is this more expensive? Of course, but in a bid situation with good contract documents, 3% of the HVAC cost.

There have been no problems with the slab that we know of and nothing has given me any indication of water rising from anywhere. The first floor is mostly tile in the affected area, carpeting in the back bedrooms. The carpet was replaced and there was no indication of a moisture problem on the slab.

The majority of the problems stemmed from the second floor, south side of the house where there were no moisture barrier. Only vinyl siding nailed up on part plywood and part OSB type board. Additional problems because there was no insulation in the second floor attic. (No AC or plumbing in this attic). The plumbing, sewer, none are run in that location. This house is approximately 1500 feet from the Gulf of Mexico facing South. There is no virtually no protection from the elements in this areal There is a small roof over hang, but it is so high that it offers no protection.

Does this answer your question ? If not PM me and I will answer it as best as I can. I am not a general contractor, but at this point, I know a lot about the building process.

Had the mold started on the first floor then migrated to the second, it would be something to think about, but all the boards on the south side, second and first floor were so warped when we took the siding off from water. And again, no moisture barrier on the SECOND floor and part of the first floor.

There are additional photos, but I hesitate to post them at this point.
 

Bobby J

Beach Fanatic
Apr 18, 2005
4,043
600
Blue Mountain beach
www.lifeonshore.com
Building a home without a moisture board between the siding and plywood is a huge issue. Now you throw in osb board and it just gets worse. IMO, that stuff should be banned on any part of the home that could receive moisture.
This is a real shame. I have always found you to be a very straight up business person and I do hope your builder thinks about things and does the same for you.
Good luck!
 

yippie

Beach Fanatic
Oct 28, 2005
946
42
A local
Frankly, I am amazed at how long the builder has allowed this to continue. It is obvious that the builder has no conscience. It has become a waiting game to see who is going to run out of money first and we all know, since this is NOT COSTING THE BUILDER A DIME, (as his insurance company pays for his attorneys), they simply don't give a dam#. I am funding all my part by myself. My homeowners insurance does not cover builders defects and by the way people, your's doesn't either[/I], if you have any insurance.

They bring in several subcontractors into the lawsuit which further complicates everything. Granted, I can understand from their insurance companies standpoint to bring in other parties for their sake, but there is nothing that says that I have to continue to be tied up in this mess after they have brought them into the case as a third party complaint. This was been done months ago. This was all they needed to do to go after their workers.

At any time, the builders could go to their attorneys and instruct them to settle this case with me and let me go on with my life without facing anymore financial hardship because now, the other parties are involved and their people can go after what they think their portion is, again, without me being involved any further, ASK ANY ATTORNEY, THEY WILL VALIDATE THIS STATEMENT.

I am not suing any subcontractors, they didn't work for me, they worked for the BUILDER WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR WORKMANSHIP. AND RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING SURE MY HOME WAS BUILT TO CODE

But, I guess they enjoy seeing a fellow business person and a fellow resident suffer because of mistakes they made and they would not come forward and fix.

At least, when I can close my eyes at night with a clear conscience.

What has happened to people? Does anyone care about others anymore or have we become such a cold society that no one cares?

All I can say is beware. BEWARE. And they continue to pull building permits.

THIS COULD HAPPEN TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU AND IF IT DID YOU WOULD LIVE THE SAME NIGHTMARE.
 

buster

Beach Fanatic
Feb 19, 2006
285
47
SoWal
Sorry for your trouble. Building inspectors are a good idea before buying. Good ones will even inspect behind siding.
 
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