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Vizcaya has a private beach??

Discussion in 'All About SoWal' started by Mello Yolo, Oct 17, 2014.

  1. Mello Yolo

    Mello Yolo Beach Lover

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    I took a walk down 30A yesterday, and turned at the "Dune Allen" beach access to view the Gulf.

    There were three large signs declaring the sands in front of the large gulffront Vizcaya tract were "Private Beach" for the (as the signs stated) exclusive use of Vizcaya residents and their guests. Has anyone else seen these specific signs (west end of the Viscaya tract)???

    I know this general issue has been knocked about a number of times on the SoWal threads...... I'm going to go back, and review them (I tried a search on "Vizcaya private" and got no hits in return).

    Are these signs permissible? All seemed to be located on the sand, between the sea grass dunes and the Gulf itself?

    Ugly sight in a pristine setting. Ugly attitude. Can they legally be removed?
     
  2. John G

    John G Beach Fanatic

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    OK here we go with the beach "rights" posts...

    You asked so I'll opine.

    1. Where is the deeded property line?
    2. Current Survey?
    3. Recent Walton County ruling on this, look it up...
    4. Beach "renourishment", which should be called for what it is, hostile take over in disguise.
    5. We have grown too big for our breaches. Investors that gobbled up foreclosures and short sales were not given accurate info.
    6. Too many tourists here. Don't need any more.
    7. Need occupational llicenses, beach vending is out of control!
    8. Respect private property...

    I bet if you call our sheriff, he'll pull out a full criminal investigation just like with S. Harris...send to the State Attorney, and have a press release with in the next day!

    Willing to wager?

    Welcome to the county where up is down and day is night. Walton.
     
  3. MRBS

    MRBS Beach Lover

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    Dear locals: I've been meaning to post a trip report of our sweet trip in sept. It was glorious; such perfection of natural beauty there, the preservation of which is due to those long gone and those who care deeply today. The combination of such splendor with fantastic restaurants and shops and above all friendly and "real" people make it unique. As a long time visitor and reader of sowal posts I am grateful for those of you who stay on top of this issue, that is, beach stinginess. Such an attitude is . . . well distasteful at best and worse, insulting to the beautiful natural vista south walton affords to each longing and tired soul who comes there for renewal. So thanks to all of you for your work keeping it real and doing your best to tamp down the rude ones. Please persevere!
     
  4. Mello Yolo

    Mello Yolo Beach Lover

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    John G...... thank you for your opine-ment, but once again you're not stating anything definitive or executable. Your cynicism is noted. I garnered what you stated from earlier threads here.

    I'll take your observations to imply nothing "practically actionable" exists--'lest someone states otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
  5. jodiFL

    jodiFL Beach Fanatic

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    ok heres my take on this.. yes these signs ruin our beaches but unless they are past the Mean High Water Line.. you cant take and burn them..
    back to the MHWL..... this imaginary line in the sand marks where said property ends because the beaches of Florida are public domain up to imaginary line.. the only way one can prove this lines existence and exact location is with a current topographical survey...in order to be "trespassing on a private Beach" the owners of the property in question should be able to produce this survey. These surveys are like food products and have an exact expiration date. Unless you just WANT a confrontation and argument about it just keep walking a little ways and you will come across more pristine beaches and alot nicer people.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
  6. John G

    John G Beach Fanatic

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    Just search the property appraiser site.

    Tourists use public access.

    Stay off private property!

    What is so challenging about this?
     
  7. jodiFL

    jodiFL Beach Fanatic

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    ...and when you finish at the property appraisers site go on over to "myflorida.com" and search the FLorida Statutes regarding "private beaches".....I agree about not going on private property but alot of gulf-front homeowners in Florida are under the mis-guided impression that they own all the way to the water. They only own to the MHWL. Use a public access to actually "access" the beach but once you get down there just stay close to the water and you are good to go...
     
  8. John G

    John G Beach Fanatic

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    Call Sheriff Mike Adkinson.

    Show him your documentation.

    Demand he make a full investigation.

    Reference the recent capers of: S. Harris and the woman that took out ads against our recently elected BCC Member.

    Both prompted full investigations so I'm certain you cause will be duly researched and attended to.

    I'll expect full media reports on this too...
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
  9. jodiFL

    jodiFL Beach Fanatic

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    pretty sure the property owner accusing someone of "private Beach trespassing" is the one required to show documentation of said infraction...
    As far as the Brannon/Harris crap.......has nothing to do with this thread.
     
  10. John G

    John G Beach Fanatic

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    That's my point. Ever call WCSO and ask them to enforce your private property rights?

    Good luck!

    Which is way the Brannon \ Harris issue is important. WCSO will pull out all the stops on that, but refuses to do anything about the beach.

    If they won't enforce rules and ordinances, why are they tasked with that jurisdiction?
     
  11. poppy

    poppy Banned

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    "Stay off private property" Exactly! You may not like someone owning part of the beach, but they do. Get over it.
     
  12. Andy A

    Andy A Beach Fanatic

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    Walton County has a signage ordinance. Some think it only applies to the 98 and 30A cooridors. I submit it applies to the beach as well. Getting someone to enforce it is the problem. The deeds for private property for beaches is some real estates provider's dream that has been allowed to get completely out of control....By the way, before I go any further, I have a privately deeded beach...and anybody is welcome to sit on it as long as they act responsibly. If they don't that is the only reason to call the sheriff.

    John G, I don't know how long you have lived here or how many beach restoration meetings you have attended but your take on beach renouishment is wrong, wrong, wrong. When Dennis came through this area in 2005, we all were made aware of how much we needed to assist our beach. Brad Pickle is right and you, who are afraid you will lose some "private property" on which you can't build, grow crops or do anything else productive do not understand the problem. It is too bad that a few narrow minded selfish, "I've got mine, you get yours" individuals refuse to accept the principles this nation was built on. I, and millions of others, put our lives on the line in order to have the freedoms once so prevalent in this nation. That includes the right to sit on any beach in the United States of America peacefully and enjoy the pristine beauty of the sea. I implore the Supreme Court of Florida to do as California has done and declare all Florida beaches, including mine, public.
     
  13. poppy

    poppy Banned

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    Andy, I'm going agree with you on this one, but until the state declares my neighbors sexy wife is public property, I'm going to stay off of her just like I stay off private beach property.
     
  14. Mello Yolo

    Mello Yolo Beach Lover

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    Yep. I researched the waltonpa.com site, before I asked my initial question. What is so challenging about this, you say? Check out the waltonpa.com map--it indicates the parking lot and public walkway for the Dune Allen Beach access are owned by the Viscaya Home Owners association. See plat 03-3S-20-34340-000-00A0

    Ergo, what's the challenge with the data of the waltonpa.com website??? Confusing, at best, in this instance. QED.
     
  15. John G

    John G Beach Fanatic

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    Respect Private Property. Its that simple.

    Unless you are invited as M Yolo has invited you to their private sand lot.

    I'll be sending my two VRBOs to you next season. They are well behaved and responsible.
     
  16. Andy A

    Andy A Beach Fanatic

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    And they would be welcome! The beaches are not like most private property and those with a lick of common sense realiizes it! When we bought here in 1991, there wasn't a "private beach" sign in sight on Blue Mountain Beach. People sat, played and enjoyed the beach without harassment. Since then, some have moved here who obviously have a different view of what matters in this nation than their predecessors had. It is a sad state of affairs that some do not accept what is obvious to so many and what should be the right of all American citizens.
     
  17. poppy

    poppy Banned

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    Exactly! Just like healthcare, fair wages and workers rights. Damn Andy I'm proud of you.
     
  18. Mello Yolo

    Mello Yolo Beach Lover

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    In response:

    Yes. Respect private property. You seem to miss the point of my thread. Private property ends at the MHWL (thanks, JodiFL, for that info). Between the MHWL and the gulf waters is NOT private property. Additionally, where that MHWL is, is largely arbitrary and capricious--unless you have a long-term coastal survey in your hands. And finally, the local WCSO seem not to be able (or do not desire) to enforce the "private property concern" due to the variables and definitions.

    No. No need for info on your VRBO's. Thanks to the 2007 downturn, I have seven gulf front VRBOs myself. I also live for six months of the year (Spring, Fall) in a private residence directly on the gulf.

    No. I'm not a tourista looking for a place to pitch a circus tent and beer cooler. I actually like having people walk, sit, and enjoy the beaches in front of my "private property". It's not an irritant for me. As long as those folks "leave it, as they found it", I'm glad to talk with them and mutually enjoy what the day and "the big man up above" has given us. In a number of instances, the people I've met on the "my beach" have become my long-term friends over the last 15 years.

    No. My issue, as originally stated, was not the "hey-there-are-strangers-violating-my-pristine-sand" concern you have.....but rather, the tasteless posting of the SIGNS that some owners feel compelled to stick in the sand. Bad appearance. Bad attitude. Bad image for the visitors. Consider WHY the sheriff's office does NOT enforce this concern.


    "My" beaches are not private, and unless a tourist with kids-in-tow knocks on my door demanding to use my swimming pool, I have no concerns.

    Why not feel the same? Life is too short. No reason to hoard your sand.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
  19. John G

    John G Beach Fanatic

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    The MHWL is a 20 year average.

    If your theory is correct than why are there deputies that enforce the "20 foot" rule, allegedly adopted by the State Attorney and the WCSO, one deputy feels the entire beach if Public and then there is the MHWL confusion.

    Get a survey, mark your property with pins, put the GPS location of each on the survey, keep it with you to show to all those who trespass.

    Private Beach is Private Beach

    Public is Public.

    It all comes down to the deed and what the survey says.
     
  20. Matt J

    Matt J SWGB

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    I really hate to do this, but in some instances private beach is legitimate:

    Vizcaya.jpg

    This is the originally filed plat of Vizcaya overlaid the current waltonpa.com site. According to it that community has lost over half its beach. I fully understand the argument that this would make the existing sand completely private, but again one would have to average the surveys over the year to determine the new current line and then have that line surveyed. The short sighted worrying about someone setting up a tent, some chairs and having a cooler and a good time over the fact that you have lost half of your beach is stupefying.
     

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