Vote No on 2

[swampfox]

swamp thanks for continuing to bump up the NO thread. I love it being at the top of the page. Now, where did that pesky yes thread go??

when trying to hold a conversation with a zealot, one should just walk away. their point is always correct.

Its not my point its GODs and yes I would say his is ALWAYS correct. Just takes faith of a Mustard seed bro. And you know what he loves you and is calling to you.

Dont worry there will be a new thread there soon enough ;-)

 

[John R]

swampfox, my faith is unquestionable, but thanks for checking. As is yours, which you feel you have reminded us with almost every post. It's quaint at the beginning, but after a while becomes tiring, and then one loses readership due to overload. One of the great parts about my faith is that I don't have to espouse it at every turn. It is strong enough within me and my God doesn't require me to preach to all. He's also fine with me supporting No on 2. Carry on.

 

[swampfox]

swampfox, my faith is unquestionable, but thanks for checking. As is yours, which you feel you have reminded us with almost every post. It's quaint at the beginning, but after a while becomes tiring, and then one loses readership due to overload. One of the great parts about my faith is that I don't have to espouse it at every turn. It is strong enough within me and my God doesn't require me to preach to all. He's also fine with me supporting No on 2. Carry on.

I really am sad for you. And oh by the way your efforts to silence me through insults really is pitful

 

[John R]

Insults? where?

not trying to silence you, I just glaze over at your lengthy posts. good luck.

 

[BookMan]

Timeline of Bible Translation History

1,400 BC: The first written Word of God: The Ten Commandments delivered to Moses.
500 BC: Completion of All Original Hebrew Manuscripts which make up The 39 Books of the Old Testament.
200 BC: Completion of the Septuagint Greek Manuscripts which contain The 39 Old Testament Books AND 14 Apocrypha Books.
1st Century AD: Completion of All Original Greek Manuscripts which make up The 27 Books of the New Testament.
315 AD: Athenasius, the Bishop of Alexandria, identifies the 27 books of the New Testament which are today recognized as the canon of scripture.
382 AD: Jerome's Latin Vulgate Manuscripts Produced which contain All 80 Books (39 Old Test. + 14 Apocrypha + 27 New Test).
500 AD: Scriptures have been Translated into Over 500 Languages.
600 AD: LATIN was the Only Language Allowed for Scripture.
995 AD: Anglo-Saxon (Early Roots of English Language) Translations of The New Testament Produced.
1384 AD: Wycliffe is the First Person to Produce a (Hand-Written) manuscript Copy of the Complete Bible; All 80 Books.
1455 AD: Gutenberg Invents the Printing Press; Books May Now be mass-Produced Instead of Individually Hand-Written. The First Book Ever Printed is Gutenberg's Bible in Latin.
1516 AD: Erasmus Produces a Greek/Latin Parallel New Testament.
1522 AD: Martin Luther's German New Testament.
1526 AD: William Tyndale's New Testament; The First New Testament printed in the English Language.
1535 AD: Myles Coverdale's Bible; The First Complete Bible printed in the English Language (80 Books: O.T. & N.T. & Apocrypha).
1537 AD: Tyndale-Matthews Bible; The Second Complete Bible printed in English. Done by John "Thomas Matthew" Rogers (80 Books).
1539 AD: The "Great Bible" Printed; The First English Language Bible Authorized for Public Use (80 Books).
1560 AD: The Geneva Bible Printed; The First English Language Bible to add Numbered Verses to Each Chapter (80 Books).
1568 AD: The Bishops Bible Printed; The Bible of which the King James was a Revision (80 Books).
1609 AD: The Douay Old Testament is added to the Rheims New Testament (of 1582) Making the First Complete English Catholic Bible; Translated from the Latin Vulgate (80 Books).
1611 AD: The King James Bible Printed; Originally with All 80 Books. The Apocrypha was Officially Removed in 1885 Leaving Only 66 Books.
1782 AD: Robert Aitken's Bible; The First English Language Bible (KJV) Printed in America.
1791 AD: Isaac Collins and Isaiah Thomas Respectively Produce the First Family Bible and First Illustrated Bible Printed in America. Both were King James Versions, with All 80 Books.
1808 AD: Jane Aitken's Bible (Daughter of Robert Aitken); The First Bible to be Printed by a Woman.
1833 AD: Noah Webster's Bible; After Producing his Famous Dictionary, Webster Printed his Own Revision of the King James Bible.
1841 AD: English Hexapla New Testament; an Early Textual Comparison showing the Greek and 6 Famous English Translations in Parallel Columns.
1846 AD: The Illuminated Bible; The Most Lavishly Illustrated Bible printed in America. A King James Version, with All 80 Books.
1885 AD: The "English Revised Version" Bible; The First Major English Revision of the KJV.
1901 AD: The "American Standard Version"; The First Major American Revision of the KJV.
1971 AD: The "New American Standard Bible" (NASB) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Word for Word English Translation" of the Bible.
1973 AD: The "New International Version" (NIV) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Phrase for Phrase English Translation" of the Bible.
1982 AD: The "New King James Version" (NKJV) is Published as a "Modern English Version Maintaining the Original Style of the King James."
2002 AD: The English Standard Version (ESV) is Published as a translation to bridge the gap between the accuracy of the NASB and the readability of the NIV.

A vast majority of Theologians agree that Bible is not meant to be taken word for word. Before the written word was written it was passed as an oral tradition. We have all played the game when we were children when we sit in a circle and pass a secret to our neighbor and by the time we get back to the origin of the secret it in no way resembles the original. Swamp, you have faith and passion which I commend, but compassion for fellow man is a pillar of civilized society. I myself am a huge beleiver in equality for all, including those I do not see eye to eye with. If your individual rights were in jeopardy I would stand by your side. I am not trying to convince you that I am right, or to change your mind, just to see that there is another view. P E A C E.

 

[John R]

Florida Proposition #2 PDF Print E-mail
Written by ACLU - Florida
Saturday, 27 September 2008 01:36

There are only four and a half weeks until the polls close in Florida, and our work to defeat proposed Amendment 2 is in full swing. If Amendment 2 passes, it would dramatically impact unmarried straight couples, including many seniors, who represent a significant portion of the 360,000 cohabitating couples in Florida. Without domestic partnership registries, partners who have not gone through a more complex and costly process of executing additional legal documents are, in the eyes of the law, strangers to each other. The impact on seniors is particularly significant given the crucial healthcare and other decisions that one partner may be making for the other partner in the later years of life.

One very important element of our campaign to defeat Amendment 2 in Florida is the collection of stories from Floridians. We need to put a name and face to our campaign whenever possible. In particular, we invite those who have enrolled on a local domestic partnership registry, especially seniors, to write to us about your story.

Many seniors who chose not to remarry in order to avoid the loss of social security and pensions from a previous marriage have enrolled on a local domestic partnership registry. Currently the following Florida cities and counties have domestic partnership registries:

* Gainesville
* Key West
* Miami Beach
* West Palm Beach
* Palm Beach County
* Broward County

 

[swampfox]

Timeline of Bible Translation History

1,400 BC: The first written Word of God: The Ten Commandments delivered to Moses.
500 BC: Completion of All Original Hebrew Manuscripts which make up The 39 Books of the Old Testament.
200 BC: Completion of the Septuagint Greek Manuscripts which contain The 39 Old Testament Books AND 14 Apocrypha Books.
1st Century AD: Completion of All Original Greek Manuscripts which make up The 27 Books of the New Testament.
315 AD: Athenasius, the Bishop of Alexandria, identifies the 27 books of the New Testament which are today recognized as the canon of scripture.
382 AD: Jerome's Latin Vulgate Manuscripts Produced which contain All 80 Books (39 Old Test. + 14 Apocrypha + 27 New Test).
500 AD: Scriptures have been Translated into Over 500 Languages.
600 AD: LATIN was the Only Language Allowed for Scripture.
995 AD: Anglo-Saxon (Early Roots of English Language) Translations of The New Testament Produced.
1384 AD: Wycliffe is the First Person to Produce a (Hand-Written) manuscript Copy of the Complete Bible; All 80 Books.
1455 AD: Gutenberg Invents the Printing Press; Books May Now be mass-Produced Instead of Individually Hand-Written. The First Book Ever Printed is Gutenberg's Bible in Latin.
1516 AD: Erasmus Produces a Greek/Latin Parallel New Testament.
1522 AD: Martin Luther's German New Testament.
1526 AD: William Tyndale's New Testament; The First New Testament printed in the English Language.
1535 AD: Myles Coverdale's Bible; The First Complete Bible printed in the English Language (80 Books: O.T. & N.T. & Apocrypha).
1537 AD: Tyndale-Matthews Bible; The Second Complete Bible printed in English. Done by John "Thomas Matthew" Rogers (80 Books).
1539 AD: The "Great Bible" Printed; The First English Language Bible Authorized for Public Use (80 Books).
1560 AD: The Geneva Bible Printed; The First English Language Bible to add Numbered Verses to Each Chapter (80 Books).
1568 AD: The Bishops Bible Printed; The Bible of which the King James was a Revision (80 Books).
1609 AD: The Douay Old Testament is added to the Rheims New Testament (of 1582) Making the First Complete English Catholic Bible; Translated from the Latin Vulgate (80 Books).
1611 AD: The King James Bible Printed; Originally with All 80 Books. The Apocrypha was Officially Removed in 1885 Leaving Only 66 Books.
1782 AD: Robert Aitken's Bible; The First English Language Bible (KJV) Printed in America.
1791 AD: Isaac Collins and Isaiah Thomas Respectively Produce the First Family Bible and First Illustrated Bible Printed in America. Both were King James Versions, with All 80 Books.
1808 AD: Jane Aitken's Bible (Daughter of Robert Aitken); The First Bible to be Printed by a Woman.
1833 AD: Noah Webster's Bible; After Producing his Famous Dictionary, Webster Printed his Own Revision of the King James Bible.
1841 AD: English Hexapla New Testament; an Early Textual Comparison showing the Greek and 6 Famous English Translations in Parallel Columns.
1846 AD: The Illuminated Bible; The Most Lavishly Illustrated Bible printed in America. A King James Version, with All 80 Books.
1885 AD: The "English Revised Version" Bible; The First Major English Revision of the KJV.
1901 AD: The "American Standard Version"; The First Major American Revision of the KJV.
1971 AD: The "New American Standard Bible" (NASB) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Word for Word English Translation" of the Bible.
1973 AD: The "New International Version" (NIV) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Phrase for Phrase English Translation" of the Bible.
1982 AD: The "New King James Version" (NKJV) is Published as a "Modern English Version Maintaining the Original Style of the King James."
2002 AD: The English Standard Version (ESV) is Published as a translation to bridge the gap between the accuracy of the NASB and the readability of the NIV.

A vast majority of Theologians agree that Bible is not meant to be taken word for word. Before the written word was written it was passed as an oral tradition. We have all played the game when we were children when we sit in a circle and pass a secret to our neighbor and by the time we get back to the origin of the secret it in no way resembles the original. Swamp, you have faith and passion which I commend, but compassion for fellow man is a pillar of civilized society. I myself am a huge beleiver in equality for all, including those I do not see eye to eye with. If your individual rights were in jeopardy I would stand by your side. I am not trying to convince you that I am right, or to change your mind, just to see that there is another view. P E A C E.

Well we tried to discredit the bible by some how showing that there were errors with in, when that didnt work. We attempt to dicredit it through its history. Im glad to see you are quite the historian. My rights are under attack by Orginizations like the ACLU. Ive said it before You want gay marriage call it civil union not MARRIAGE. In calling it marriage........ its not because again for the 100 billinth time, Marriage is between a man and woman, you sir are attacking christianity, and twisting a term we hold dear. Call it civil union and leave the word marriage for that in which it is meant. So far since ive been alive :


What used to be called murder is now called choice
ACLU wants to take CHRIST out of CHRISTMAS
ACLU demands the boyscouts ( a private orginization ) to take GOD out of the oath ( does this sound like seperation of church and state?)
ACLU demands the 10 commandments to come off of court house walls even though basic law 101 day 1 teaches you that the very foundation of our laws came right out of the bible.
The "state" stepped in and said that I cant take bible class in school as an elective. Thats not seperation either.
So dont talk to me about my civil rights being leaned on. PEACE


EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS, but you are taking a sacred word from Christians and twisting it into something foul to get it. Use the new word for that. And the thing about scholars........ smart they may be, but they are still man and born of sin and are imperfect.

 

[Jennifer Steele]

Well we tried to discredit the bible by some how showing that there were errors with in, when that didnt work. We attempt to dicredit it through its history. Im glad to see you are quite the historian. My rights are under attack by Orginizations like the ACLU. Ive said it before You want gay marriage call it civil union not MARRIAGE. In calling it marriage........ its not because again for the 100 billinth time, Marriage is between a man and woman, you sir are attacking christianity, and twisting a term we hold dear. Call it civil union and leave the word marriage for that in which it is meant. So far since ive been alive :


What used to be called murder is now called choice
ACLU wants to take CHRIST out of CHRISTMAS
ACLU demands the boyscouts ( a private orginization ) to take GOD out of the oath ( does this sound like seperation of church and state?)
ACLU demands the 10 commandments to come off of court house walls even though basic law 101 day 1 teaches you that the very foundation of our laws came right out of the bible.
The "state" stepped in and said that I cant take bible class in school as an elective. Thats not seperation either.
So dont talk to me about my civil rights being leaned on. PEACE


EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS, but you are taking a sacred word from Christians and twisting it into something foul to get it. Use the new word for that. And the thing about scholars........ smart they may be, but they are still man and born of sin and are imperfect.

I am a Christian, and I do not appreciate your speaking on my behalf.

 

[Jennifer Steele]

swampfox

Do you even really understand what Prop 2 does? You harp about having your rights removed but that is exactly what this amendment proposes for so many Americans (and not just gay "sinners" but "sinners" of all kinds).

The ballot language says, "This amendment protects marriage as the legal union of only one man and one woman as husband and wife and provides that no other legal union that is treated as marriage or the substantial equivalent thereof shall be valid or recognized."

Two existing Florida statutes prohibit same-sex marriage:
Florida Statute 741.212(1) defines marriage as the legal union between one man and one woman and provides that the term "spouse" applies only to a member of such union (FL. Stat. 741.212(1),(3)).

Florida also adopted a Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) in 1997 which was codified as Florida Statute 741.212.

The amendment as written includes a clause prohibiting judges from overturning the law. This is a response to what happened in Massachusetts, where a judge overturned that state's law banning same-sex marriage.[1]

Arguments in Support
In general, Florida's religious community is strongly in favor of the measure.
Supporters say the amendment would protect children by ensuring that only the form of marriage between a man and a woman would ever be celebrated in Florida.

The Florida statute that already provides for a single form of marriage could be overturned by a court on constitutional grounds.

The main argument supporters of the proposition are making is that if the amendment fails, school children could be indoctrinated in the gay lifestyle.


Arguments in opposition
The petition as acting as bait for the Presidential election in order to draw out conservative voters; there is already enough legislation in place currently.

Health care and pension benefit plans which cover unmarried couples, even heterosexual older couples, living together and which are now legally valid may be adversely affected.

Article I of the Florida Constitution, known as the Declaration of Rights, establishes rights, but this amendment would instead limit the right to marry.

There are already other Florida Laws that expressly prohibit homosexual unions, so this amendments purpose is much larger than that and if passed will be used to restrict all relationships that are not a legal marriage under Florida's Statutes.

Opponents say that elderly people in the state who, after being widowed, have subsequently chosen a domestic partnership in order to retain certain benefits, will be adversely impacted by the measure.

No one is attempting to remove your rights, but YOU are attempting to remove the rights from hundreds of thousands of Floridians by voting Yes, only because you unnecessarily feel threatened by gay marriage, which is already not recognized in Florida.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Florida_Marriage_Amendment_(2008)

 

[Jdarg]

I am a Christian, and I do not appreciate your speaking on my behalf.

Apparently we are not the right kind of Christians, and I love that mere mortals determine who are and are not Christians.