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mdd88jd

Beach Lover
May 26, 2008
155
210
Mark
What would the average increase cost local Taxpayers if it was made up here? I know, people don't want to see taxes increased, but you have to ask yourself. Second, so Crist vetoed the Legistlators cuts in education but is still looking for tax cuts next year. Where do we think its going to come from?

To answer the first question---If we could raise the millage in the capital outlay by a quarter mill, that should equal 3.5 million dollars. We would then have to get the voters to approve the transfer of that quarter mill to the operations budget similar to what we did 6 years ago with the half mill. The new total transfer would be .75 mills. However, we could not, at the same time lower the local millage on the capital side to keep the millage the "same" like we promised and did during the last referendum. In other words, we could ask for a quarter mill increase in the capital budget and ask the voters to transfer it to operations by referendum. That would be a tax increase.

Can't answer the second quesstion. But, I can tell you this. The state will require a fairly large increase in that portion fo the local millage for schools that the State controls, called the "required local effort." That you can bet on....

Thanks guys.
 

Santiago

Beach Fanatic
May 29, 2005
635
91
seagrove beach
Good point Beachmouse about how Bright Futures is artificially keeping tuition levels low. At the same time, taking it away from the upper-income folks would be a double whammy: not only would their child not get the financial help that has been promised for years, but tuition is bound to rise very rapidly once fewer people start getting scholarships from the state.

Perhaps a sliding scale is in order based on income, but have everyone who meets the academic standards get something, no matter what the income level. Otherwise I'm sure we would have some good students falling through the funding cracks -- and a heck of a lot of angry parents.

I thought there was already financial aid available for those in need of it. It seems to me that the bright futures program is having another effect on our universities in that more "bright" people are staying in state thereby raising the bar to get into state schools. My kids are still too young but I am hearing from friends about how hard it is to get accepted to UF and FSU. This is obviously a result of the bright futures program working. I may not like it so well when mine are of age though.
 

TooFarTampa

SoWal Insider
I thought there was already financial aid available for those in need of it. It seems to me that the bright futures program is having another effect on our universities in that more "bright" people are staying in state thereby raising the bar to get into state schools. My kids are still too young but I am hearing from friends about how hard it is to get accepted to UF and FSU. This is obviously a result of the bright futures program working. I may not like it so well when mine are of age though.

I agree that it's great for so many families and hope that we can take advantage of it. I do know that buying into the Florida Prepaid fund when we did was a lucky break, because costs to get into the program have gone up.

I think there are a couple of levels of standards (maybe 2 or 3) for Bright Futures. Maybe the top tier could keep their full award, which is something that was offered well before the official Bright Futures program started. Perhaps that could continue to help attract the best and the brightest. Maybe the bottom and middle tier of standards could become more needs-based, with a sliding scale that includes everyone to some degree.

But my understanding is that many university presidents (the ones at the top schools especially) feel hamstrung by the artificially low tuition. With the severity of the recession, some are talking like it's crisis mode. There will be a tipping point where things are going to have to change or adjust sooner or later.
 

wrobert

Beach Fanatic
Nov 21, 2007
4,134
575
61
DeFuniak Springs
www.defuniaksprings.com
(7) Carlene's numbers are right as they relate to Florida's spending per child as it relates to other states. The new numbers, for 2008-2009 will put us at the bottom, 50th..... It is despicable that States like Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama spend more per pupil than Florida. And, money does make a difference. The last time I check, New Jersey spends the most per child and they had the highest average SAT scores in the country. Although, DC seems to be an exception, the more you spend, the better your results.

You know these are some hard figures to run down if you want to find a source that you feel is reporting equally for every state. The best I was able to do was to look at per student spending numbers released by the Census Bureau. The latest that they have is 2006. I found SAT scores for 2008, so going under the assumption, I know, that a significant increase in dollars spent, while may impact test scores, would not do so immediately I compared the two. The New Jersey/New York thing you mention was in 2002 according to several news stories I came across.

According to the census Utah ranks dead last in per student spending. I am pretty confident in this since I have heard several legislators use it as an example when debating the education budget. In 2008 they ranked 20th in SAT scores.

The number one spenders are New York, ranked 45th, New Jersey ranked 36th, and DC ranked 51st.

The ones that spend the least are Utah, ranked 20th, Idaho ranked 24th, and Arizona, ranked 30th.

Interesting that Idaho spends a thousand dollars more per student than Utah, yet still ranks lower in SAT scores.

But like you said in the past SAT scores are really what you have to look at because the test is the same throughout the country. Attached is the spreadsheet I threw together keeping track of this. The dollars came from a US Gov website.
 
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beachmouse

Beach Fanatic
Dec 5, 2004
3,504
741
Bluewater Bay, FL
SAT scores have some hella selection bias if you're trying to use them as a school quality proxy. I remember the last time it came up that Alabama students had higher mean SAT scores than New Jersey students, but if you drill down into the college board reports, about 5-10% of Alabama high school students take the SATs (ACT is more common for college bound students in the South and Midwest unless they're a high achiever that's looking at a top tier national schools that's still SAT-only or need a validater for a National Merit scholarship) and the percentage of students who took the SATs in New Jersey (ACT less common) was at 60-70%.

The Alabama students also had significantly higher median family income than the New Jersey students, something that suggests the Alabama group was skewing toward high achievers if you're familiar with usual student patterns.
 

wrobert

Beach Fanatic
Nov 21, 2007
4,134
575
61
DeFuniak Springs
www.defuniaksprings.com
SAT scores have some hella selection bias if you're trying to use them as a school quality proxy. I remember the last time it came up that Alabama students had higher mean SAT scores than New Jersey students, but if you drill down into the college board reports, about 5-10% of Alabama high school students take the SATs (ACT is more common for college bound students in the South and Midwest unless they're a high achiever that's looking at a top tier national schools that's still SAT-only or need a validater for a National Merit scholarship) and the percentage of students who took the SATs in New Jersey (ACT less common) was at 60-70%.

The Alabama students also had significantly higher median family income than the New Jersey students, something that suggests the Alabama group was skewing toward high achievers if you're familiar with usual student patterns.


I use them because that is what Mark always refers too.

Since median income seems to affect test scores, then why not shift more dollars into the household to raise that income level?
 

appalach

Beach Comber
May 16, 2008
48
2
SAT scores have some hella selection bias if you're trying to use them as a school quality proxy. I remember the last time it came up that Alabama students had higher mean SAT scores than New Jersey students, but if you drill down into the college board reports, about 5-10% of Alabama high school students take the SATs (ACT is more common for college bound students in the South and Midwest unless they're a high achiever that's looking at a top tier national schools that's still SAT-only or need a validater for a National Merit scholarship) and the percentage of students who took the SATs in New Jersey (ACT less common) was at 60-70%.
The Alabama students also had significantly higher median family income than the New Jersey students, something that suggests the Alabama group was skewing toward high achievers if you're familiar with usual student patterns.


What is the most objective way to be able to compare schools across state lines? The basic premise of using a national standardized test like the SAT or ACT makes sense at first glance, but as mentioned, there are lots of biases that can influence the results.

In these times of economic uncertainty, many families are having to make choices to move to different areas for employment (if they are lucky enough to find a new job). Obviously, one of the issues most parents care deeply about is the quality of the new school(s) that their children will be attending.

If a family is making a move within the same state, it seems as if it would be easier to assess the potential new school relative to the prior school. However, how is someone supposed to compare an "average" school in a state with a great public school system (wherever that might be) to a "great" school in an average state (again, wherever that might be)?

Actually, since generalizations about entire states don't really help a specific family, how do you think a family could best weigh an individual school in one city compared to another individual school in one or two other cities in different states?
 
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beachmouse

Beach Fanatic
Dec 5, 2004
3,504
741
Bluewater Bay, FL
Maybe if we had a true national stantardized test with 90% plus student participation, we'd get a better idea of what's going on. As it is, each state interprets NCLB differently, and what's passing in one state can be failing in another come test time.

Meanwhile in higher ed, FSU says it may have to lay off 200 faculty members and close entire departments if the budget ends up being a worst case scenario for them.

I also saw a blurb in another article about the school having a hiring freeze in the (self-funding) athletic department.
 

Jdarg

SoWal Expert
Feb 15, 2005
18,068
1,973
Story on last night's budget meeting. I wasn't able to go (probably a good thing since after reading the WZEP report, my jaw hurts from gritting my teeth).

http://www.panhandleparade.com/inde...idents_speak_against_teacher_cuts/mbb7715036/

WZEP has a more detailed report in their e-blast- I am trying to figure out how to link it.


No matter what happens, the district is going to need parent help now more than ever. Thjere are several parents going to DeFuniak to pay $57.50 to be fingerprinted so we can work one on one with students. I don't mind, but I bet we could have a lot more volunteers if the volunteer background check process was more accessible and affordable. I am sure there are parents that won't be able to take time off from work and/or afford the fee.:sosad:
 
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