Public vs Private Beach [threads merged]

There are differences between the Atlantic beaches and our area. The Atlantic beaches have been tourist destinations for many years and they are well into redevelopment and fixing problems that occur. Our area is relatively new to the development and destination business. Look at photos from the 70's and 80's, the area was radically different with almost no development occurring until SanDestin came in the mid-70's. We did not do a good job anticipating the tremendous growth along 30-A and so we are behind playing catch-up. We need leadership to make tough choices and build the necessary infrastructure. Redevelopment is messy and sometimes painful but necessary because the people are not going away and in fact more are coming every day.

Hey wastinaway,
Being able to own beach front property has nothing to do with Luck as you mention in your post. It has to do with working very hard all your life, and being able to enjoy
the end years of your life the way you would like after saving your money and planning. The problem is and will be, too many tourists squeezed into south walton beaches and roadways. The TDC advertised so well it brought everyone and their brother to our beaches. It would not be a problem if we had wide beaches and roads planned to carry the heavy load of vehicles. Because Walton county has never had a plan of any kind except taking in tax dollars, we are now in the middle of a crisis. Beaches along the Atlantic for the most part on the East Coast have much wider beaches and can handle the size of the crowds we experience here. Tourism is making our little piece of paradise bust at the seams. People that own beach front property and decide not to allow people on their property probably have a good reason for doing so based on their past experience and it is only going to get worse.

Sharon,
I agree completely with your statements that there has been no foresight in planning. I am an engineer in the area, and experience the lack of planning every day through the course of my business. Any changes that have been made have all been reactionary in Walton County - nothing happens until the problem has already appeared, then a remedy is planned and implemented, usually many years after it was truly needed and without enough foresight to think about what will be needed even 5 years from now. TDC dollars should be used to create an effective planning group to help anticipate the growth of the area and improve it, with a program modeled after cities such as Raleigh-Durham, NC. Then the plan should actually be used, and not collect dust on a shelf somewhere.

However, I completely disagree that luck doesn't play a part in the fortune of life. Every successful person I've ever met has been given opportunities by a person or organization who sees your true potential, or helps set you up for success - usually through training, recognition, or both. That is a lucky set of circumstances, that along with your hard work allows you to succeed.

I'm not trying to steer this thread to such an unrelated topic, so I'll stop there. But I know I'll consider myself very lucky the day I buy my beachfront property that I have had good health, the chance to go to college, many opportunities, and parents that taught me the value of hard work that all added up to me being where I am.

Danny, I appreciate your position and the thought behind it. You correctly point out that "real development" in our area didn't start until the 70's and 80's as opposed to the Atlantic coast which started much earlier.

The property we own was built in the early 80's and was the first condos (if not the first) in our immediate area. Assuredly there was little to no use of our section of the beach by the public. There was no need. I've mentioned this a few times in the past: when people arrived at the public access during those times, there was no reason to have to hike a few hundred feet to find a tranquil spot on the beach. And it was pretty much that way when we purchased the property 15 years ago.

Of course times are different.

I understand your concept of customary use, really. But how does one justify (other than idealistically) opening the entire beach for public use when there may be only a hand-full of property parcels adjacent to heavily used accesses where customary use might be successfully argued?

...That is why I support the purchase of every foot of beachfront that we can buy at reasonable prices.

Just curious, what would you consider to be a reasonable price with all that's at stake? I might be ready to sell. On the flip side, why would you encourage this solution if you think customary use might prevail?

One more observation...this idea that our beach economic engine will crash into a brick wall simply is not true in my opinion. It's still running very strong right now as evidenced by TDC revenues even at the height of this debate. Perhaps this push-back on uncontrolled growth (no parking, no bathrooms, crowded 30A, etc.) should be viewed a little differently....

That is instead of the economic engine crashing against the brick wall (finite beach space and infrastructure), perhaps today's new tracks could be seen as simply curving around and running parallel to the brick wall. In the end, the engine keeps on running - but the number of cars it's pulling stays the same.

I support public ownership as the best possible solution to our problems. I do not have any burning desire to fight nor do I think such a fight is beneficial to anyone. So the government purchasing property on the beach will help both sides. But I fully believe that if the issue is pushed customary use will prevail because in my opinion customary use follows existing law. This could change if the BCC does not act decisively to protect those rights.

@Danny Glidewell makes a very good point about our government promoting our beaches for all to come and enjoy. The TDC has never advertised "Come enjoy our beaches, or at least some of them. Please enjoy yourself on our 26 miles of coastline, but watch where you step".

Tourism is what is driving this argument, and because we invited tourists, that should end the argument.

Nobody said we can all use the beaches for recreation, But with exceptions, like enjoy the beach, except the plot in Blue Mountain Beach that begins 540 feet east of the Blue Mountain Beach Access and ends at 610 feet east of the Blue Mountain Beach Access. If somebody thinks a deed changes that, they're wishing on a star.

It's ridiculous that we have to have this discussion. I disagree that we need to buy beachfront for public use. Because of customary use we already own the right to use it.

Mike Jones, I hope you are right but purchasing the beachfront property removes the doubt. It also allows for amenities such as bathrooms, walkovers and picnic facilities to be built near the shore.

I love how every argument made on this site for taking the private property of others is based in the theory of entitlement and simple jealously over what another has and another does not.

Blame the property owner for their ability to obtain property that most all desire, yet cannot afford...or were unable to obtain them (your) selves.

It's all the fault of those damn rich beach front owners...

Entitlement? Simple jealousy? Ha... Humans have an ancient RIGHT to access the coastline. The Romans knew this, which is why they codified it into law. We know it, which is why we will reverse the misdeeds which led to this situation. Nobody blames you John, and to believe that we're jealous of you would mean that, were it possible, we would also attempt to "own" a piece of the beach. We don't want to own it John, we want to share it.

Entitlement? Simple jealousy? Ha... Humans have an ancient RIGHT to access the coastline. The Romans knew this, which is why they codified it into law. We know it, which is why we will reverse the misdeeds which led to this situation. Nobody blames you John, and to believe that we're jealous of you would mean that, were it possible, we would also attempt to "own" a piece of the beach. We don't want to own it John, we want to share it.

Good lord, I'm going to try this one last time.

I never have said I am in favor of preventing the flow of people walking the beach, from East to West or vice versa, never!

I have said repeatedly, that blame for this issue lies with BCC, TDC and WCSO.

BCC - failed to purchase additional property and refuses to do so. They thought renourishment would pass. It didn't. Epic Fail.

TDC - Dawn M., and her crew marketed the hell out of this area and we're very, very successful in driving numbers of visitors Up, while quality went Down.

WCSO /Adkinson created an SOP, specifically designed to not be enforceable. Multiple pages of B.S., while our neighbor to the west (OCSO), has about a half page document outlining their enforcement. You don't see these problems over in Okalossa do you? Wonder why?

So again, why attack private property owners when the real culprits are right in front of you?

Reason #1 - too ignorant to see the facts.

Reason #2 - too convenient to use this problem to attack the "haves".

The Better South Walton Movement has already felt the push back on this, with more to come.

The real solution is to allow things to get back to normal, when people didn't have to post signs, chain off territory, etc.

This is done by correcting the negative behavior on BOTH sides.

I really don't see a full on protest March designed to flip the middle finger at people being all that smart.

I do think we can do a better job educating our visitors about how things work (worked), around here.

But, historically, this County loves to let Attorneys make lots of money of its incompetent behavior, this shall be no different...

I think this will be an interesting summer.

On the issue. some tourists are A holes and some are awesome. But a few bad apples set the tone, even leaving trash, using glass and dogs off the leash. That's ridiculous! But all tourists are now represented by the bad ones. Good tourists need to condemn the bad ones. Ruining the beach experience with pee in dunes, glass on beach, dogs off leash and leaving trash behind needs to stop and we need to speak out.

The Walton County beach activities ordinance addresses all bad behavior and all concerns.

Good lord, I'm going to try this one last time.

I never have said I am in favor of preventing the flow of people walking the beach, from East to West or vice versa, never!

I have said repeatedly, that blame for this issue lies with BCC, TDC and WCSO.

BCC - failed to purchase additional property and refuses to do so. They thought renourishment would pass. It didn't. Epic Fail.

TDC - Dawn M., and her crew marketed the hell out of this area and we're very, very successful in driving numbers of visitors Up, while quality went Down.

WCSO /Adkinson created an SOP, specifically designed to not be enforceable. Multiple pages of B.S., while our neighbor to the west (OCSO), has about a half page document outlining their enforcement. You don't see these problems over in Okalossa do you? Wonder why?

So again, why attack private property owners when the real culprits are right in front of you?

Reason #1 - too ignorant to see the facts.

Reason #2 - too convenient to use this problem to attack the "haves".

The Better South Walton Movement has already felt the push back on this, with more to come.

The real solution is to allow things to get back to normal, when people didn't have to post signs, chain off territory, etc.

This is done by correcting the negative behavior on BOTH sides.

I really don't see a full on protest March designed to flip the middle finger at people being all that smart.

I do think we can do a better job educating our visitors about how things work (worked), around here.

But, historically, this County loves to let Attorneys make lots of money of its incompetent behavior, this shall be no different...

I think this will be an interesting summer.

Ignorant to see the facts? The fact is that up until a few years ago anyone and everyone in South Walton walked and played and set up chairs on any area of the dry sand without being harassed. As more and more tourists arrived this heated up and beach front homeowners got frustrated with the activities happening behind their beaches. The Walton County Beach Activities ordinance was adopted to address bad behavior but one or two BFHs decided this was a time to lawyer up and see if they could challenge the Florida Supreme Court ruling in Tona Rama vs Daytona beach by restricting and stopping the customary use of the sandy portions of the beach behind their homes.

You say "I do think we can do a better job educating our visitors about how things work (worked), around here." The way it "works" is "The City of Daytona Beach v. Tona-Rama, Inc., was ruled by the Florida Supreme Court as a means by which the public can establish rights to utilize the dry sand areas of Florida beaches for traditional recreational uses." Up until this false claim of restriction of use by BFHs we all used the beaches without harassment. My idea for a walk on the beach is not a "Flash Mob" or a "Hippy Dippy" protest as it has been characterized. The walk on the beach is merely a reconfirmation that all areas of the dry sand both through both private and public property are available for use by any person.

This is not a protest or the middle finger. I have the highest respect for all beach front homeowners many who are my friends. In fact most I talk to would not dream of stopping people from using the beach behind their homes and are disgusted with the signs and the harassment taking place. I respect the fact that some people are not behaving correctly behind their homes and it is not a taking of private property in any way. It's just defending the well behaved use of the beaches as regulated by the Beach Activities ordinance in Walton County.

As an aside, the ABSW board takes no position on any issues except seeking solutions to the betterment of South Walton. I am only one of many private citizens who feel they have the right to peaceably access the dry sandy areas of the beach as we all have since humans walked upright.

This will be settled in the courts and hopefully a much higher court than Walton County but in the mean time people will be empowered to use the beaches as they always have. And for now, with Tona Rama vs Daytona Beach ruling by the Florida Supreme Court, the public has the upper hand. For now, no person has the right to stop anyone from accessing the dry sand. There is no law on the books that can stop any of us from using the beaches of South Walton as we always have and that is the truth.

The Walton County beach activities ordinance addresses all bad behavior and all concerns.

Dave R., Do you feel this is being properly Enforced? Yes or No?

TLDR: What's stopping the voters of this jurisdiction from putting a new tax—levied on beachfront property—onto the next ballot?

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John G's enlightened position—that the rights of private beach property holders should, in all instances, be respected and the letter of law enforced—has me thinking:

In so far as we live in a quasi-democracy, he's correct. While the "customary use" issue could take quite a long time to adjudicate, might a more expedient (and more democratic) solution to the lack of public beach access be to levy a special assessment on all beach-front private property?

Say, $1,000 per square foot of sand, per year, calculated north-to-south from the vegetation line to the historical mean high water mark (which the owner's own surveys, signs, and mercenaries security guards, describe as being several hundred feet into the Gulf) and east-to-west by the property boundaries.

The revenue generated (~$24.3B per year) could then be spent to purchase additional public beach, with a portion allocated to conducting a census of the Blue Mountain Beach Dune Snake.

The assessment would continue until such time as the public's need and desire for beach access is well-met. Should the property owners fail to pay the special assessment, a lien would be filed against the downland portion of the property and said property surrendered and forfeited to the county (and ultimately disposed of into the public trust.)

But that wouldn't be necessary because....

The assessment wouldn't actually cost the property owners anything. Their costs would simply be passed along to the vacation rental customers. While this might result in a slight "uptick" in rental rates, it would at the same time address what John G has quite accurately identified as the very root of the controversy: the calibre of vacation rental customers. As we all know, the less financially endowed are also the most ill-mannered. Special assessment means no more noisy rule-breakers.

It is clear that this assessment represents a win for ALL of South Walton and I'm confident that it will garner the full support and backing of both the public at large and (who having already established themselves as an exceedingly generous group) the beach property owners!

P - Preserve private property owner's rights
I - Improve the calibre of vacation rental customers
S - Secure beach property for public use and conservation
S - Snakes in Dunes!

Porkchop, you are hilarious and brilliant. I have been very much enjoying your informed, articulate posts

Bumper stickers coming soon to local cars... Thanks to local friends for coordinating the effort. It's one small way to get the word out. These will be available at many local businesses, in different colors, soon.

John G, I do not think anyone is disputing the fact that the Beach Activities Ordinance has been unevenly enforced or even has been ignored. I support stepping up enforcement and think most residents feel the same way.

Dave R., Do you feel this is being properly Enforced? Yes or No?

I am going to guess that it is not and that is a very relevant point John. I just saw yesterday that they made some staff full time to hopefully address this; clearly that is not going to be enough. I would say that should be the main focus of Beach Front Homeowners and I would stand with all of you in that effort. I am happy to help in any way. I'm sure you would remember I made that issue a central point of my comments to the Beach Access Workshop panel some months ago. I completely agree that this MUST be addressed so Beach Front Homeowners have a quick and efficient system looking out for the the need for peace and quiet behind their homes. It's clear that that is a central issue and flashpoint that got us to this point.

Holy Cow, did I read the last two posts from Danny G and Dave R correct?

We (the three of us) are actually in agreement that Enforcement of the Ordinances are a core problem?

We may actually be getting somewhere.

There is absolutely no reason that enforcing the BAO is not a priority and that the TDC does not hire enough people to make sure it is fairly and evenly enforced. I consider enforcement officers and the equipment and training they need to be infrastructure supporting tourism. I include removing those trespass signs as being part of enforcing the BAO.

Great reading for those of you that are interested.
Sand for the People:

Bumper stickers coming soon to local cars... Thanks to local friends for coordinating the effort. It's one small way to get the word out. These will be available at many local businesses, in different colors, soon. View attachment 60351

Is there a specific group sponsoring this?

Is there a specific group sponsoring this?

Nope, just private citizens who are coming together and care about securing the continued access and use of our beaches.

Is there a specific group sponsoring this?

Lots of local love.

Bumper stickers coming soon to local cars... Thanks to local friends for coordinating the effort. It's one small way to get the word out. These will be available at many local businesses, in different colors, soon. View attachment 60351

Suddenly, I have a hankering for a hamburger.

Count me it. The lack of common sense displayed in many posts lately is appaling.