Catholic Bishops Call for Health Care Reform

You'll have to take that up with the conservatives you're addressing directly. I'm a skeptical christian conservative leaning libertarian, and I've earned everything I have through my own hard work and suffering. I'd also never try and force religious or social beliefs on anyone, but you already knew that didn't you?

(This thread is now officially off the rails.)

I too worked hard for everything I have. Most of these folks are brain-washed beyond belief as to what a conservative is. I went to public school, started working in a vegetable garden every summer after age 11 just to buy school clothes, and crazy enough haven't attended church regularly in years. So I came into this world with nothing but a loving family and have built-up a nice estate and nest egg while giving 35% of my work to the federal government. I am generous with childrens charities and just gave out 68 w-2's to my employees. I joked with my family this christmas about how we are "evangelicals." Most liberals I know actually came from wealthy families and inherited family money and never had to build a fortune of their own. The other liberals I know either lack to intiative or talent to do what I have done.

The greatest nation on earth is 'greatest' for a lot of reasons, one of which is that we do things differently than our european counterparts. The more we try to bend America toward euro values, the more we risk becoming less great, more mediocre. That risk is especially apparent when the policies being promoted endanger one of the cornerstones this country was built upon - individual rights.

and that is an example of how we all have different ways at looking at the same situation. The way I see it is this: This is America. Not Europe. Whatever we do in this or any other issue is uniquely American. We have the resources and intellect and power to advance this country. We are a nation of people who think and dream big - because our freedom allows us to do this. We are literally FREE to choose to care for our citizens in the best way we can. it is the best way to honor ourselves and our freedoms.

In my little opinion, we do risk making America mediocre or worse if our egocentric and consumption-driven culture continues. but that is another issue for another day.

isn't it so wild how we all look at things so differently from a philosophical standpoint? but we are all just people and we are much more alike than we think. I do appreciate 30Ashops viewpoint because they are completely reasonable, logical and correct. but for whatever reason, I look at them and describe them from a different perspective. imo, all of these views and perspectives are necessary in this and any other national debate.

and that is an example of how we all have different ways at looking at the same situation. The way I see it is this: This is America. Not Europe. Whatever we do in this or any other issue is uniquely American. We have the resources and intellect and power to advance this country. We are a nation of people who think and dream big - because our freedom allows us to do this. We are literally FREE to choose to care for our citizens in the best way we can. it is the best way to honor ourselves and our freedoms.

In my little opinion, we do risk making America mediocre or worse if our egocentric and consumption-driven culture continues. but that is another issue for another day.

isn't it so wild how we all look at things so differently from a philosophical standpoint? but we are all just people and we are much more alike than we think. I do appreciate 30Ashops viewpoint because they are completely reasonable, logical and correct. but for whatever reason, I look at them and describe them from a different perspective. imo, all of these views and perspectives are necessary in this and any other national debate.

Agree with value of different ideas for an expanding discussion, Tootsie, the difference I see is that you listen and allow some different ideas to enter your mindset. Others, not so much.
\
I have never understood how helping someone either individually or in the aggregrate takes anything away from the one who is helping--in my experience, just the oppoiste happens.

During my lifetime, I have not lost an individual right because I or the government or anyone/anything else has helped someone...The loss of privacy due to the illegal wire-tapping came close; but that was not in the process helping any citizen.

The idea of all of us being helped when we lift each other up still seems to work in my mind. I am trying to understand the point of view that says all government is bad; all corporations are good; and that no one should care for others--rather, everyone is on their own and only has responsibility for themselves--it just makes no sense to me based on my lifetime of experience.

And, I am not sure that I want it to...it seems it would be such an unhappy set of circumstances.

I just don't see any benefit to me (financial or otherwise) that would come from my friends, neighbors, and fellow Americans being denied affordable medical care.

Isn't a healthy population good for us as a country?

I can certainly think of a lot of negatives that might ensue, but not any positives.

I just don't see any benefit to me (financial or otherwise) that would come from my friends, neighbors, and fellow Americans being denied affordable medical care.

Isn't a healthy population good for us as a country?

I can certainly think of a lot of negatives that might ensue, but not any positives.

I agree with you--I don't see it either. I think healthy, educated, compassionate all would be good.

I too worked hard for everything I have. Most of these folks are brain-washed beyond belief as to what a conservative is. I went to public school, started working in a vegetable garden every summer after age 11 just to buy school clothes, and crazy enough haven't attended church regularly in years. So I came into this world with nothing but a loving family and have built-up a nice estate and nest egg while giving 35% of my work to the federal government. I am generous with childrens charities and just gave out 68 w-2's to my employees. I joked with my family this christmas about how we are "evangelicals." Most liberals I know actually came from wealthy families and inherited family money and never had to build a fortune of their own. The other liberals I know either lack to intiative or talent to do what I have done.

And here, all this time, I thought you were just some high school drop out. BTW, you don't happen to need some elderly conservative to go to work for you, do you? I really like your style and thought process.

I too worked hard for everything I have. Most of these folks are brain-washed beyond belief as to what a conservative is. I went to public school, started working in a vegetable garden every summer after age 11 just to buy school clothes, and crazy enough haven't attended church regularly in years. So I came into this world with nothing but a loving family and have built-up a nice estate and nest egg while giving 35% of my work to the federal government. I am generous with childrens charities and just gave out 68 w-2's to my employees. I joked with my family this christmas about how we are "evangelicals." Most liberals I know actually came from wealthy families and inherited family money and never had to build a fortune of their own. The other liberals I know either lack to intiative or talent to do what I have done.

wow. that is a pretty strong, not to mention wrong, statement about human beings. most people I know have a lot of conservative and liberal, as well as all other kinds of values all mixed in together. Most people I know who belong to any and all political parties, or none, are good, hard working, talented, giving people who may or may not have been born with a penny. Most people I know, regardless of political party affiliation, have some weaknesses and failures in life as well. Most people I know are not defined by a political party at all. yet they still have a desire and determination and motivation to do their best in life - which is what we all want. See? we are all the same. and we are all different. we are all good, whether we own a company with 100 employees or we work for someone else or we have children or we go to church or we don't.

I have many friends and family members who have worked hard to build the best life they possibly can - for some of them it means they have built businesses. for others they have performed many different kinds of professions - working for hospitals, schools, emergency services, etc. others have served in the military, worked at a supermarket or chose to stay at home with children. others are still trying to figure out what they want to do with their lives - they want to make a good life and they are trying or they are not trying - that is really their choice. These people are not defined by being a conservative or a liberal. They are human beings with a huge range of values and beliefs. Most would tell you that having gobs of money or owning a business do not quite get you that "best life". it is the way in which you live, work, love, give and live with the people all around you. you can do this and still be a republican. I just know you can!;-) not really. you can't. just kidding - of course you can. the point is this: who cares what silly meaningless label you place on yourself - or on others. being "conservative" or "liberal" (are those the only choices for labeling ourselves?) does not define you or how you choose to live your life or how successful you are in your profession.

just take a look at these conservative catholic priests who allow one issue to define their political party affiliation (abortion). they are actually in full support of universal health care. it does sound conflicting, but it isn't. they are quite consistent with their beliefs and actions and values. preservation of life really does mean something to them. "conservative" or "liberal" political labels have very little to do with any of it.

wow. that is a pretty strong, not to mention wrong, statement about human beings most people I know have a lot of conservative and liberal, as well as all others kinds of values all mixed in together. Most people I know who belong to any and all political parties, or none, are good, hard working, talented, giving people who may or may not have been born with a penny. Most people I know, regardless of political party affiliation, have some weaknesses and failures in life as well. Most people I know are not defined by a political party at all. yet they still have a desire and determination and motivation to do their best in life - which is what we all want. See? we are all the same. and we are all different. we are all good, whether we own a company with 100 employees or we work for someone else or we have children or we go to church or we don't.

I have many friends and family members who have worked hard to build the best life they possibly can - for some of them it means they have built businesses. for others they have performed many different kinds of professions - working for hospitals, schools, emergency services, etc. others have served in the military, worked at a supermarket or chose to stay at home with children. others are still trying to figure out what they want to do with their lives - they want to make a good life and they are trying or they are not trying - that is really their choice. These people are not defined by being a conservative or a liberal. They are human beings with a huge range of values and beliefs. Most would tell you that having gobs of money or owning a business do not quite get you that "best life". it is the way in which you live, work, love, give and live with the people all around you. you can do this and still be a republican. I just know you can!;-) not really. you can't. just kidding - of course you can. the point is this: who cares what silly meaningless label you place on yourself - or on others. being "conservative" or "liberal" (are those the only choices for labeling ourselves?) does not define you or how you choose to live your life or how successful you are in your profession.

just take a look at these conservative catholic priests who allow one issue to define their political party affiliation (abortion). they are actually in full support of universal health care. it does sound conflicting, but it isn't. they are quite consistent with their beliefs and actions and values. preservation of life really does mean something to them. "conservative" or "liberal" political labels have very little to do with any of it.

i agree and am at fault for generalities. i just get upset by posts such as SWGB's that pile conservatives together, as the rich, the heartless, and the bigots. what i do fear is happening in the leftist agenda being pushed right now is that the ascension i have been able to take will no longer be there for future generations. taxes will be so high that after $250,000 (which is a required incentive for a business to grow, otherwise i could have stopped at 5 employees and made that amount yearly); that there will be no incentive to go from a single shop small business to a local chain to a national brand. this is how our economy has functioned for decades and why the US has been the center for innovation in the last 2 centuries. i am seeing BHO's policies as an affront to that and taking us toward statism. that is why the mass senate election turned out the way it did and after the sotu address, i think he is not taking that turn to the center that served Bill Clinton so well.

And here, all this time, I thought you were just some high school drop out. BTW, you don't happen to need some elderly conservative to go to work for you, do you? I really like your style and thought process.

not at this time, once i know what bho is going to do with my taxes and if my government dependent revenue is not slashed by 21% in march, we might start back hiring again. funny enough, most of the people working in my offices have a similar style and thought process. they are taught how government policies are affecting our business and due to our bonus structure being based on the businesses performance we have had many political converts. so, i guess in that respect i am "evangelical."

the problem with my business and many other small businesses is the uncertainty in the economy and how the government is going to act. in my view they have not done a great job back to paulson and gwb with the TARP. once i have some signs that the economy and my businesses future is on solid future we will resume hiring and expansion.

30ashopper posted a video by the Cato Institute critiquing Obama's speech in the State of the Union thread.

Around minute 7, the Cato person says that one of the best ways to help solve the crisis is to give individuals who buy health insurance the same tax credits as businesses and to open up insurance across state lines and make insurance companies compete.

Both seem reasonable to me. Anyone else?