Commentary on Phelps and Pot...

I must have killed too many brain cells at the Swim House parties - Elizabeth Hasslebeck and I are on the same side of an argument!

Oh that would drive me to drink.

I guess I am in an argumentative mood today.
(cue well deserved smart alec remarks like, "Today?")

I believe that if Phelps had been a bit more defiant that this would have led to healthy dialogue on this subject.

Oh well, you opened the argumentative "can of worms" and I attempted to dump the worms out on the table for a closer look, but I guess nobody wants to play with them. So much for a healthy dialogue. Too taboo I think, huh?

Think about it folks. Hundreds of billions of dollars wasted over several generations. Does this make sense to anyone out there? Someone, anyone? The silence is deafening, but speaks volumes about our society, doesn't it? Political correctness run amok!

Just ignoring the subject won't make it go away...

Oh well, you opened the argumentative "can of worms" and I attempted to dump the worms out on the table for a closer look, but I guess nobody wants to play with them. So much for a healthy dialogue. Too taboo I think, huh?

Think about it folks. Hundreds of billions of dollars waisted over several generations. Does this make sense to anyone out there? Someone, anyone? The silence is deafening, but speaks volumes about our society, doesn't it? Political correctness run amok!

Just ignoring the subject won't make it go away...

I think the interesting part is that no one is jumping on the keep it illegal platform. No impassioned stories of a child being lured into the "pot culture" and then going crazy in a pot induced mania.

What ever happened to Barney Franks bill he was trying to pass?

Barney Frank To File Bill Legalizing Marijuana | Crooks and Liars

(I mentioned Barney Frank, the conservatives will come running.)

What Phelps should have said.

The Agitator ? Blog Archive ? A Letter I’d Like To See (But Won’t)

I think the interesting part is that no one is jumping on the keep it illegal platform. No impassioned stories of a child being lured into the "pot culture" and then going crazy in a pot induced mania.

What ever happened to Barney Franks bill he was trying to pass?

Barney Frank To File Bill Legalizing Marijuana | Crooks and Liars

(I mentioned Barney Frank, the conservatives will come running .)

SWGB, let them squawk. Barney's right on this one. No pun intended.

You will also notice that no one has had the cajones to even thank me for post #12 as yet...interesting, isn't it?

I didn't thank you for post #12 because I don't agree with it.

Marijuana maybe, all drugs - no!

There is another thread.

Regardless of your personal feelings about pot smoking and it's legality, Phelps is a role model who did something illegal.

I care less about the fact that a role model did it then the fact that a great athlete is so careless with their body (he has also had past alcohol problems). Swimming is a sport with very low tolerances for error - thousandths of a second are the difference in a gold and silver medal and he's hitting a bong!

you have a point, but really its his choice. good or bad. it belongs only to him.

Most of the swimmers I know (and I've known some of the best) are hard partiers. I don't begrudge a swimmer wishing to partake. Problem for Phelps is he's a public figure who is an icon to many children. Answering a kid's (under 10) questions about Phelps, bongs and weed is really awkward and uncool. He needs to show a little more restraint in his private life so that his dirty laundry doesn't explode on the public scene.

you are right that he should show more restraint. but then again, I say its his choice entirely. if he loses sponsors or whatever, those are the consequences, just like any young person has to face if they make certain choices and get caught. I would say he needs to be more choosey about friends and surroundings. and do whatever the hail he wants to do.

Geo - I think lots of healthy discussion is going on because of Phelps (this thread is an example), even if he did apologize. he was just doing what he had to do by publicly apologozing - its kind of good common courtesy. Surely he meant, "I'm sorry for getting caught on camera". actually, I'm sure he is highly embarrassed and feeling like an dumbarse right about now for the whole thing. If and when he tokes again, he'll be sure to be in a very private setting. Geo - you make total sense. I especially agree with your statement that I just wish i did not have to know - what a shame! it is just not anyone's business.

lots more people smoke pot, from my old aunt to someone's grandma I won't mention, leaders around the world, losers, champions, sick people in pain, and every kind of person in between, including athletes. someday it will have to be legalized. my only concern now and in the future is educating children about its harmful effects and keeping it out of their hands, as much as alcohol, pills and any drug.

SWGB, let them squawk. Barney's right on this one. No pun intended.

You will also notice that no one has had the cajones to even thank me for post #12 as yet...interesting, isn't it?

I'm out of rep for the day, I'll get you for it though.

I didn't thank you for post #12 because I don't agree with it.

Marijuana maybe, all drugs - no!

Why is that? Legalize heroin and you've just destroyed the economy of the Taliban.

I'm out of rep for the day, I'll get you for it though.



Why is that? Legalize heroin and you've just destroyed the economy of the Taliban.

I got him covered. I am not sure about legalizing all drugs. But, I'm ingrigued.

I got him covered. I am not sure about legalizing all drugs. But, I'm ingrigued.

I'm for it, but feel that it should be taxed into oblivion to cover treatment. The more treatment a drug requires the more it should be taxed. If that means close to street prices for drugs so be it. As a friend of mine pointed out to another, one time. They are called recreational drugs for a reason. Once you've taken care of all your obligations and you have left over money then you can do them. That same friend tried Heroin once. His friends video taped him doing it and after watching the video he has never had any desire to do it again. I'm not saying that addiction isn't a true problem for some, but it's not a guarantee for everyone.

I didn't thank you for post #12 because I don't agree with it.

Marijuana maybe, all drugs - no!

Let me attempt to clarify. By legalizing all drugs, they and the users can more easily be monitored and help can be rendered when necessary and needed. It would take the production, distribution, and sale out of the hands of drug lords and thugs and possibly put into the hands of more caring and professional people. And we would no longer need to import any of these substances from our enemies.

If we simply exposed all drugs for what they really are, I think the illicitness of their appeal lessens (let's admit it, most of us try things like this because we are told not to do so) and we all benefit from the true educational aspects of the exposure. When we keep such things in the shadows as we have for 70+ years, very few of us, especially our children, even know what the actual truth of most drugs is and these false perceptions make experimentation more appealing to some of them.

Whether you agree with me on the legalization part or not, truth in education about illegal substances is desparately needed in this country. I just think complete or partial legalization is a step in the direction of de-mystifying these substances, ending this stupid "war on drugs" that has never and can never work, saving billions of our tax dollars, and putting America on the road to actually helping the sick, addicted people of our nation. Why are we still attacking the victims of this alleged war?

Very good point. I remember in school being told during anti-drug classes that animals wouldn't eat pot. Fast forward to adult life and learn that Deer meat is especially tender due to their propensity to eat wild marijuana.

Just realized it. That also explains the glazed look when they stand in the road before they get hit.

Deer: Dude, check out that cool light.

There is another thread.

Regardless of your personal feelings about pot smoking and it's legality, Phelps is a role model who did something illegal.

I care less about the fact that a role model did it then the fact that a great athlete is so careless with their body (he has also had past alcohol problems). Swimming is a sport with very low tolerances for error - thousandths of a second are the difference in a gold and silver medal and he's hitting a bong!

As far as I'm concerned the man has done everything he needs to athletically and is under no obligation to his fans to pursue further excellence in the sport of swimming. That is his business.

Most of the swimmers I know (and I've known some of the best) are hard partiers. I don't begrudge a swimmer wishing to partake. Problem for Phelps is he's a public figure who is an icon to many children. Answering a kid's (under 10) questions about Phelps, bongs and weed is really awkward and uncool. He needs to show a little more restraint in his private life so that his dirty laundry doesn't explode on the public scene.

Try doing that when the POTUS is getting BJs.

I had never heard it either until it appeared in a thread in the lounge.

Cheeba sounds like the name of a Chihuahua that won the Westminster.

...as one could see from the OTHER thread about this topic...all I could think of was cheetos.

Interesting discussions here about drugs. I will go back and read Barney Fife's take.

I believe that all drugs should be legal. Prostitution as well. Gambling. Why is it against the law to "scalp" concert tickets? If we get rid of the drug laws and the accompanying war on drugs, crime would probably drop by eighty percent.

If I do something and it does not affect the life, liberty or property of another person, it should not be illegal.

first heard about cheeba with tone loc.

I believe that all drugs should be legal. Prostitution as well. Gambling. Why is it against the law to "scalp" concert tickets? If we get rid of the drug laws and the accompanying war on drugs, crime would probably drop by eighty percent.

If I do something and it does not affect the life, liberty or property of another person, it should not be illegal.

the addiction rate increase would end up costing society more for rehab, but i believe property and violent crime would drop greatly.

how do other countries deal with drugs and legalization? I really don't care if people are allowed to destroy their own lives doing drugs, but I do care how it effects me and others. I get what analogman is saying about telling the truth about drugs - how they are distributed, who is in charge, how the whole biz works, who it effects, crime surrounding the biz, etc.... but I don't know what good could come out of legalizing all the drugs that are horribly destructive to people, families, whole sub-cultures of people, etc. treatment is available to them now.

I would hate to see the govt have an entire department dedicated to controlling drugs (oh, we already have this in place, right? FDA?), as well as the treatment of drug addicts because we gave them the right to do drugs. of course, this is America. the right to destroy ourselves is a given, right? well, not really. destroying ourselves destroys much and many around us. (but you may say that taking the "illegal" out of drugs will make people not want to do them as much. most of the criminal element may be removed, but not all. many problems would remain along with many new ones). so, its not an easy issue. No - complete legalizaton won't do us a bit of good. some legalization - yes of course. Marijuana being illegal seems too silly for words.

how do other countries deal with drugs and legalization? I really don't care if people are allowed to destroy their own lives doing drugs, but I do care how it effects me and others. I get what analogman is saying about telling the truth about drugs - how they are distributed, who is in charge, how the whole biz works, who it effects, crime surrounding the biz, etc.... but I don't know what good could come out of legalizing all the drugs that are horribly destructive to people, families, whole sub-cultures of people, etc. treatment is available to them now.

I would hate to see the govt have an entire department dedicated to controlling drugs (oh, we already have this in place, right? FDA?), as well as the treatment of drug addicts because we gave them the right to do drugs. of course, this is America. the right to destroy ourselves is a given, right? well, not really. destroying ourselves destroys much and many around us. (but you may say that taking the "illegal" out of drugs will make people not want to do them as much. most of the criminal element may be removed, but not all. many problems would remain along with many new ones). so, its not an easy issue. No - complete legalizaton won't do us a bit of good. some legalization - yes of course. Marijuana being illegal seems too silly for words.

Tootsie, I can see your point, but let me make another one as a person who has more experience on this subject than most. When I was young and more susceptible to the influence of peer pressure (others just as inexperienced as I was with illegal substances of unknown consequences), I couldn't see the long term effect of my own inappropriate actions. If drugs were legal then, I might have been able to prevent some of the terrible things I saw later in life. Things that happened to many of my friends and relatives who didn't come to their senses as early in the process as I did. People who do illicit things grow adept at concealing their addictions and weaknesses. My mother was one of these people. Hers was a unique kind of addiction that I won't elaborate on at this time. Just suffice it to say that her skills at deception and subterfuge were masterful. I truly believe that this kind of behavior's cause is a direct result of American society's "war on drugs" mentality and its destructive influence on the abusers.

I lost four other friends to the scourge that hard drugs are on our society. If these things are out in the open (legal) and younger people can observe the destructive influence on others first hand, instead of them being hidden behind closed doors, as it inevitably will be if drugs remain illegal, I think the things you described above that I bolded will be much less likely to occur in the first place. I consider this a good preventative tactic.

Treatment is less likely needed if the abuse never happens in the first place. Prevention is preferable to treatment. America's war on drugs has failed miserably. Whether what I described in this thread is the proper way to address this problem or not, we desperately need to do something that we have been unwilling to do in our recent history. Many just choose to ignore the problem and expect it to go away. Other say don't change a thing, just keep on punishing the abuser and it will deter others. As Dr. Phil always says: "how's that been working for you?" Did the illegality of Mr. Phelps' actions, with all of the implications this might have on his future, deter him? I say it has never worked, doesn't work now, and never will.

And Tootsie, thank you for your thoughtful consideration and insightful posts.

the addiction rate increase would end up costing society more for rehab, but i believe property and violent crime would drop greatly.

At the same time without constantly locking people up for marijuana you'd have a bumper crop (no pun intended) of facilities looking to fill beds. Turn them into rehabs cut the guard staffing and replace with far fewer nurses and aides and you've turned a prison into a true rehabilitation center. It doesn't have to look like something Britney or Paris would check into, but if it's government run off of taxes from the sale of these substances then it probably shouldn't be too cushy.

I work with teenaged boys all the live long day and am desperate to find them some good role models.

Michael Vick? O.J. Simpson? Phelps?

Many of my boys have absent fathers. Some of them have fathers in prison. Some of them have fathers who have died. (A couple of them have fathers who died in prison!) If I tell them about my own father or brother, sometimes I don't think they even believe me. They don't understand good men.

I need a hero. If you're going to be on the podium and the cover of SI, then have some integrity. If you're going to hold your body to a high athletic standard, then why not hold the rest of your life to a higher standard as well? All my life I knew that I shouldn't do certain things because of the potential disgrace of being caught. I can't teach my boys that when I have all their role models giving the example of "It doesn't matter what I do in my free time as long as I win."

Takes more balls to do the right thing than to do the easy thing.

If one wants good role models for the kids he has no choice but to turn to fiction. I don't care who you are, even the most respected elder has flaws that need to be rejected. Teach kids to think rather than believe in some role model concept which is nothing more than a media fueled fairy tale that inevitably leads to media fueled outrage. This whole deal about how it affects "the children" is just a ploy adults use in an attempt to control behavior that they personally have a problem with. It's all about the welfare of "the children". Yeah right. It reminds me of when people get an autograph from a famous person and they claim it's for their kids.:roll: B.S.

I work with teenaged boys all the live long day and am desperate to find them some good role models.

Michael Vick? O.J. Simpson? Phelps?

Many of my boys have absent fathers. Some of them have fathers in prison. Some of them have fathers who have died. (A couple of them have fathers who died in prison!) If I tell them about my own father or brother, sometimes I don't think they even believe me. They don't understand good men.

I need a hero. If you're going to be on the podium and the cover of SI, then have some integrity. If you're going to hold your body to a high athletic standard, then why not hold the rest of your life to a higher standard as well? All my life I knew that I shouldn't do certain things because of the potential disgrace of being caught. I can't teach my boys that when I have all their role models giving the example of "It doesn't matter what I do in my free time as long as I win."

Takes more balls to do the right thing than to do the easy thing.

I agree with your point to a certain degree, but doing so by lumping Phelps in with OJ and Vick doesn't make it very well. Besides marijuana is legal to smoke in many states and several countries. Pot didn't put these boys or their fathers where they are and if it was the only cause of their trouble, it was the stupid law that got them there, not the pot itself. Just my personal opinion.

Edit:
I've been thinking about your post and something really bothers me. Why does anyone need a hero to inspire them to do something with his/her life? Inspiration must come from within. "Winning" doesn't come by being lazy (and I think most habitual criminals...not recreational pot smokers... are just that). Most people must work very hard to get what they want. I think Phelps has had to work extremely hard to get where he is and what he has accomplished is certainly not "the easy thing". I don't think smoking a little pot lessens his integrity much at all. He is still and always be an inspiration to me and millions around the world regardless of what he does in his free time. Here's why I feel this way:

My mother was a drug addict and I had an absentee father. I lived well below the poverty line for most of my youth. I worked from the time I was 13 to help my family and to have the few posessions I treasured. When I was 18, I left my home in Kansas City and moved to Chicago and then Los Angeles to pursue a musical career. By the time I was 24, I had a recording contract with a major label. When I was 31, I earned a degree in electronics engineering. I did this by myself, for myself. I worked for decades in the recording industry with many famous people, and now I live in South Walton County near the worlds most beautiful beaches.

I made all of this happen by getting up every day, looking in the mirror, and telling myself never to look back. Keep moving forward and make something of yourself...and I worked my @$$ off every day to make it happen. Sure I had heros, but I never let them define what I wanted to do for myself.

We, as Americans, must stop blaming others for our own shortcomings. If we choose an action, we choose the consequences. It's that simple. Role models are a miniscule part of what should influence a person to live up to his/her potential. We must take responsibility for our own decisions. The more we can instill this in our young people, the less we will need alleged "heros" to inspire us to become what we should be able to become on our own. No more lame excuses.

I invite you to show this post to some of your boys and see what their reactions are.

PS
If you are looking for a good role model, I suggest you look into the stories of Wyclef Jean or Tim McGraw. I think your boys should be able to relate to one or the other.

Careless with his body? I get what you are saying but it is a slippery slope. The same logic can be applied if he eats at McDonald's or doesn't get adequate sleep.

Alcohol problems? I know the guy got a DUI (I wish I didn't know it- it is none of my business which is a subpoint in this discussion) but does he really have alcohol problems? I would venture to guess that if all of us when we were college aged were held to the standards we are holding this guy to that most of us would be eligible for the "past alcohol problems" label.

We don't see a picture of Phelps chugging a can of Budweiser because lobbyists in this country were successful in persuading lawmakers that alcohol is an ok drug. It wouldn't be news if Phelps ingested a mind altering drug if the pharma companies convinced the FDA, the lawmakers and the MD's that that their drug was ok.

I really see this whole thing as a "kids will be kids" story. This to me is about as serious as a speeding infraction on a country road when no one was around. Was it illegal? Yep. The smartest thing to do? Nope. But it was just a young guy unwinding. And it is a shame we know about it. I do not believe he owes us an apology. That said, I understand why he HAS to apologize. It's the PR machine.

This is an interesting thread & I agree with both sides. However, Geo, I'd love to see how you would feel about something similar in another 10 years when your cute little kids are older. (& they are adorable, btw!)

I don't see this as a PR machine. I feel the apology was the least he should have done. It takes a lot to own up to a mistake. The apology makes him more of a man in my eyes.

I need a hero. If you're going to be on the podium and the cover of SI, then have some integrity. If you're going to hold your body to a high athletic standard, then why not hold the rest of your life to a higher standard as well? All my life I knew that I shouldn't do certain things because of the potential disgrace of being caught.

If one wants good role models for the kids he has no choice but to turn to fiction. I don't care who you are, even the most respected elder has flaws that need to be rejected. Teach kids to think rather than believe in some role model concept which is nothing more than a media fueled fairy tale that inevitably leads to media fueled outrage. This whole deal about how it affects "the children" is just a ploy adults use in an attempt to control behavior that they personally have a problem with. It's all about the welfare of "the children". Yeah right. It reminds me of when people get an autograph from a famous person and they claim it's for their kids.:roll: B.S.

I agree with both of you, but we, as a society, put too much pressure on our "icons" and when they are youthful ones, I can not possibly imagine how much more pressure they are under. Athletes compete for themselves and push themselves to attain the impossible. Constant training, the money expended and time involved, then when you have reached your goals, like a gold medals, or in Phelps case, multiple medals, there is a sense of accomplishment, but at the same time, later when the high wears off-- in the non-literal sense-- they probably go through some depression because where do you they go from there? He's a kid really, and so what? If it were me, I'd probably have had a bong attached to me head with multiple bongy extensions in case one burned out. Instead of worrying about illicit use of drugs, we should be more concerned about his state of mind. We also are probably the only Country that gives a rat's arse about this.