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Death today at Seagrove Beach

Beach Comber
23,538 views
My family and I are vacationing in Seagrove beach. An older gentleman drowned today after not heeding the double red flags. By the time we made it down to the gentleman that passed away he was basically already gone. My sister is a doctor and offered to help with the compressions. They tried reviving him for half an hour before they took him away.

After speaking with someone at Modica, seems that a couple drowned yesterday in Santa Rosa area after being pulled out of the water TWICE PREVIOUSLY by the beach authority. Can someone please tell me why people refuse to understand the severity of the current? That the flags aren't just posted for the amusement of the beach authority?!?! Even AFTER the gentleman died, there was a couple trying to swim in the surf with their kids, ages 4 and up!

I just don't understand why this continues to happen. I am a tourist myself and I still feel like they need to haul these people out of the water and charge them a hefty fine for jeopardizing the lives of these lifeguards who have to go in after them. If we can charge $250 for littering on a highway, they need to start heavily fining people who are going in the water on double red days.

Needless to say it was a somber day at Seagrove beach today. I'm taking it upon myself to call the beach authority if I see one more kid in the water on a double red flag day. This is insane!! :cry:

Replies

104
Beach Fanatic
#27
Kitty, that wouldn't surprise me. Here's another possibility. People may see the flag with the cross over the swimmer and think the flag means, "no swimming," when in fact, it is supposed to mean, "Water is closed. Stay out!" One can stand out in the gulf, not swimming, and be swept away by the rip currents.

Someone told me to say what you mean and mean what you say. Don't tell people not to swim, if you really mean stay out of the water, and if you say that you are going to fine people for breaking the rules which may save their life, well do it. I still think that it is impossible to fix stupid.

S J, I agree...some people will behave irresponsibly regardless of what anyone does.

Having said that, I think the families of these people who have died; the life guards; and the other law enforcement and EMS people who tried to save them would appreciate any additional effort that might have saved them.

I know you can see the pain on the faces of the LEOs who are trying their best to keep people safe--and having them die despite the best efforts of the life guards and law enforcement; not to speak of the "every day" person who often risks his or her life to help.

I would like to see us try a more serious approach to the printed warnings...

Edited

NotDeadYet avatar
Beach Fanatic
#28
I like the ordinance PCB is working on, to require all walkovers including private ones to post the flag sign and the rip current sign. And I also think we do need more flags. It is not just older eyes that cannot see the flags clearly from quite a few locations, including the site of yesterday's drowning. Often when we have red flag conditions we also have a lot of wind and salt spray and haze on the beach.
NoHall avatar
hmmmm......can't remember
#29
Like Scooterbug said: If you read the signs at the flags, they are clear. Red says, "Swim at your own risk." As a former lifeguard, I translate that to mean that if you're dumb enough to swim out to find the sand bar under a red flag, I'm under no obligation to risk my life to save you. Double red means to stay out of the water. It doesn't say, "No surfing, no deep-water swimming, no wading, no skim-boarding." It says, "Water closed."

My point? People do what they want to do. They interpret the signs to their own convenience and desires, and sometimes their own safety is not their top priority.

I just wish that the lifeguards would pack up and go have lunch on red flag days, just so they're not tempted to save the idiots. That's what "swim at your own risk" means.
JB avatar
Beach Fanatic
#30
The closest red flags to where the gentleman drowned are so far away that they just look like decorative flags in front of a condo. At his age I'll bet he couldn't even see the flags, even if he knew what they meant.

Many tourists aren't familiar with the beach flag warning system because there are more private walkovers than public ones. According to a State of Florida website, "To the extent funds are available, warning flags and interpretive signs are provided free of charge to local governments that provide public beach access. The communities that receive the free warning flags and interpretive signs are responsible for the installation, proper use, and maintenance of the flags and signs." The State of Florida has made no provision for these signs to be made available for private walkovers.

BR, you bring up an excellent point. I handful of the larger properties adhere to the flag warning system, but there are stretches all along 30-A where one can walk long distances and not see any flags. I guess this begs the question - whose responsibility is it to warn folks if they are unaware of the danger?

I think we sometimes take it for granted that folks just automatically know when surf conditions are dangerous. Some dude from say, Kansas, just sees big waves and wants to get out there. Next thing you know, someone is dragging him out of the surf.

I certainly don't have the answer, but it's an issue nonetheless.
NoHall avatar
hmmmm......can't remember
#31
Also note the bottom of this sign: Absence of flags does not assure safe waters. Where I'm from, we call that common sense.

I don't like the wording of the red and yellow flags on this one, though. I read those as, "Go ahead and swim. It's more fun today." I can't remember which signs y'all have down there, but I recall seeing them at all the accesses I use.

Edited

scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#32
Where I'm from we call it "sheet for brains" when you ignore warning signs, look at crashing waves, and then continue to wade in/swim! :bang:

Seriously, the flag system is a great one, easy to understand, well maintained, and well publicized. It is also FAR more info/cautionary than you will find at almost any other body of water.

I told Papa Scooterbug that tourists are drowning - his response was "Did they stop using the flag system?"

Edited

NotDeadYet avatar
Beach Fanatic
#33
I have to say I am disturbed by the tone this thread is taking on. We don't know anything about the man who died yesterday, do we? Certainly there are always going to be stupid people who put others at risk with their stupidity, but there are always also going to be people who make mistakes or act out of ignorance. The Darwinists always seem to think they will never make a fatal mistake. Quite probably none of them will ever drown in SoWal but there are a multitude of other possibilities even for the best and the brightest.
NoHall avatar
hmmmm......can't remember
#34
I have to say I am disturbed by the tone this thread is taking on. We don't know anything about the man who died yesterday, do we? Certainly there are always going to be stupid people who put others at risk with their stupidity, but there are always also going to be people who make mistakes or act out of ignorance. The Darwinists always seem to think they will never make a fatal mistake. Quite probably none of them will ever drown in SoWal but there are a multitude of other possibilities even for the best and the brightest.

I know nothing about the man who died. I was throwing in my $.02 about the clarity of the signs from a non-resident, inlander point of view.
Miss Kitty avatar
Meow
#35
I know nothing about the man who died. I was throwing in my $.02 about the clarity of the signs from a non-resident, inlander point of view.


Agree...I think most posters are desperate to find a system to keep this from happening!!!!
Miss Critter avatar
Beach Fanatic
#36
Just wondering, if flags/signs are not posted at a private beach access, and someone drowns, can their next of kin file suit against the private property owner for failure to warn of danger? Do public beaches post to avoid liability as well as protect the public?
Zebraspots avatar
Beach Fanatic
#37
I can understand people on vacation at the beach wanting to enjoy the water or cool off, but not swimming on a red/double red day seems like water safety 101.

They can go to one of the many pools, build sandcastles (or dig those #$*@* holes), go kayaking or play in one of the lakes, play in the outfalls, so why are they risking their lives in obviously unsafe water?

Part of learning how to swim is learning about safety, your limits, and how to judge water - and erring on the side of caution and hidden dangers are always emphasized.

What am I missing? :idontno:
BeachSiO2 avatar
Beach Fanatic
#38
BR, you bring up an excellent point. I handful of the larger properties adhere to the flag warning system, but there are stretches all along 30-A where one can walk long distances and not see any flags.

Where do you mean? My understanding is that outside of the state parks, where they post their own flags, there is a flag pole that can be seen from the water's edge in at least one direction. I will try and track down the flag pole locations as they were selected by previous Code Enforcement Beach Activities Coordinators, Ken Wilde and Lesley Campbell.
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#39
One or more flags are clearly visible along the entire stretch of beach.

I was on the beach in Seagrove saturday afternoon and could see 3 flags from my location ............ and so could the idiots who walked down the steps, read the signs, checked the flags, then went in the water! :bang:
Will B avatar
Moderator
#40
Not to cast any disparaging remarks, but a lot of the discussion points have trended towards an implied desire for a "Nanny State" status. What ever happened to people being responsible for their own actions? Just because there are not signs visible at every entrance doesn't imply there is any culpable negligence on the county's part. I'm mean really...it's the Gulf of Mexico. There are currents, waves, and big scary fish with teeth. We all know that. It's called implied risk.

I have stepped down from my soapbox, now. You are free to proceed with the "flaming"!
BeachSiO2 avatar
Beach Fanatic
#41
Where do you mean? My understanding is that outside of the state parks, where they post their own flags, there is a flag pole that can be seen from the water's edge in at least one direction. I will try and track down the flag pole locations as they were selected by previous Code Enforcement Beach Activities Coordinators, Ken Wilde and Lesley Campbell.

Here is the location of the 30 flag poles currently changed by the SWFD (I think :biggrin:):

Flag poles listed from east to west

1.Inlet Beach Regional Beach Access
 2.Winston Lane Neighborhood Beach Access
 3.Rosemary Beach
 4.Sandcliffs Subdivision
 5.Sea Breeze Beach Neighborhood Beach Access
 6.Watersound
 7.Sugar Dunes Neighborhood Beach Access
 8.Lakewood Drive Neighborhood Beach Access
 9.One Seagrove Place Neighborhood Beach Access
 10.Santa Clara Regional Beach Access
 11.Seagrove Villas Motel
 12.Seaside
 13.Van Ness Butler Regional Beach Access
 14.Grayton Dunes Regional Beach Access
 15.Gulf Trace Subdivision
 16.Blue Mountain Regional Beach Access
 17.Inn at Blue Mountain
 18.Gulfview Heights Regional Beach Access
 19.Ed Walline Regional Beach Access
 20.Lake Causeway Neighborhood Beach Access
 21.Dune Allen Regional Beach Access
 22.Beach Highlands Neighborhood Beach Access
 23.Tops'l Resort
 24.Sandestin
 25.Hidden Dunes
 26.Norwood Drive Neighborhood Beach Access
 27.Edgewater Condominium
 28.Seascape East
 29.Seascape West
 30.Miramar Beach Regional Beach Access
Beach Runner avatar
beats on hood
#42
I am happy to report that the gentleman who supposedly died was sitting outside this AM with a bandage on his head while his family was enjoying the pool:clap:.

Again, the flags are too far away to be seen clearly by an older person or someone who is vision impaired, and the county doesn't install signs on private walkovers. I printed out warning signs for inside of our house.
Miss Kitty avatar
Meow
#43
I am happy to report that the gentleman who supposedly died was sitting outside this AM with a bandage on his head while his family was enjoying the pool:clap:.

Again, the flags are too far away to be seen clearly by an older person or someone who is vision impaired, and the county doesn't install signs on private walkovers. I printed out warning signs for inside of our house.

:eek:...wow, that is a miracle!
sunspotbaby avatar
SoWal Insider
#44
I am so glad to hear this! Thanks for the update BR!
Landlocked avatar
Beach Fanatic
#45
:eek:...wow, that is a miracle!

One vacation they'll never forget.. I'm surprised they'd even go near the pool after that experience.
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#46
Again, the flags are too far away to be seen clearly by an older person or someone who is vision impaired, and the county doesn't install signs on private walkovers.

I am glad to hear he is okay, but it's even stupider that he had to be rescued when they obviously have access to a pool!

Why don't we just have daily warning placards in Braille or a recurring recording every five minutes TELLING you what the conditions are?

We are seriously approaching the point where we will soon be advocating the posting of signs telling people to remember to inhale and exhale. :roll:
lennonsdarlin avatar
Beach Lover
#47
The NWF daily news is still reporting him dead....were there two at Seagrove yesterday??? This one had heart surgery scars!?
Beach Runner avatar
beats on hood
#48
Maybe there were two incidents. Obviously the family wouldn't be playing in the pool if the grandfather had died.

I was told he slipped out to the beach without anyone knowing it. This is purely speculation, but perhaps there was a little senility involved?

I haven't seen him close enough to notice his chest.
Beach Comber
#49
As former Governor Jesse Ventura called it: "Natural Selection"
NoHall avatar
hmmmm......can't remember
#50
Not to cast any disparaging remarks, but a lot of the discussion points have trended towards an implied desire for a "Nanny State" status. What ever happened to people being responsible for their own actions? Just because there are not signs visible at every entrance doesn't imply there is any culpable negligence on the county's part. I'm mean really...it's the Gulf of Mexico. There are currents, waves, and big scary fish with teeth. We all know that. It's called implied risk.

I have stepped down from my soapbox, now. You are free to proceed with the "flaming"!

Don't be crazy. We need signs for everything.
Miss Critter avatar
Beach Fanatic
#51
Not to cast any disparaging remarks, but a lot of the discussion points have trended towards an implied desire for a "Nanny State" status. What ever happened to people being responsible for their own actions? Just because there are not signs visible at every entrance doesn't imply there is any culpable negligence on the county's part. I'm mean really...it's the Gulf of Mexico. There are currents, waves, and big scary fish with teeth. We all know that. It's called implied risk.

I have stepped down from my soapbox, now. You are free to proceed with the "flaming"!

Please don't misunderstand. In no way did I mean to imply by my question that an owner or the county SHOULD be sued, only that they might be. The "someone else is responsible for my poor choices" attitude seems to be widespread and growing. None of the counties involved has the luxury to decline to rescue those who fail to heed the (multiple) warnings and show little common sense (that should really be re-named; it's all too uncommon these days). I know budgets are already stretched thin. No doubt they are eagerly anticipating the end of swimming season.

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