Dog Fly Plane?

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by florida girl, Sep 7, 2007.

  1. dogflyguy

    dogflyguy Beach Lover

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    Im sure most of you heard the walton commisioner's decided to have another look at the spraying of south walton and turned it down again 2 to 1 but im afraid it's going to get harder for them to keep that hard line unless they come up with another way to get rid of the dogfly's their getting lots of calls from angry folks (so i heard).
     
  2. tuck

    tuck Beach Lover

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    can you give any details as to the meeting last night, I was not able to attend as I am out of town. Are the dog flys' still at the beach?
     
  3. 30A Skunkape

    30A Skunkape Mr. Small Box

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    You can bet your bottom dollar that the cool front moving through Friday will have the beach buzzing for the weekend. Have fun:bang:
     
  4. dogflyguy

    dogflyguy Beach Lover

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    Sorry i didn't go to the meeting, just heard about some of it from the boss who did go. Also you can see a brief vidio on it from WJHG7 just type that in and you can get panama's local 7 tv then clk on the link walton county controversy.

    Yeah your right skunk the dogfly's will probably be out in droves with this cold front and we have thunderbeach motorcycle rally this wkend ,but if it is cool ill have my leathers on that's one thing them dang!!!! fly's cant bite through LOL
     
  5. Jdarg

    Jdarg SoWal Expert

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    Either dog flies don't find me tasty, or I have been in the wrong (I guess right) places, but the dog flies have only bothered me 2 days this whole year, and even then, it wasn't a big deal, just a few flies. Where are they? :dunno:
     
  6. dogflyguy

    dogflyguy Beach Lover

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    Im not sure about walton county but panama city beach has had 8 to 10 counts , gulf county really bad at 20 to 25 and allenton in bay county around 10 .

    those counts mean how many land on you in a minute we are required to have at least 3 to spray
     
  7. fisher

    fisher Beach Fanatic

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    Amen!!!!!!

    Please send a message to each of the county commissioners thanking them for their vote to end the spraying.
     
  8. fisher

    fisher Beach Fanatic

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    Dibrom or Naled is very toxic. I would rather get bitten 1000 times by dog flies than inhale on part per billion of Dibrom. Below is an excerpt regarding the toxicity of Dibrom (Naled)

    From Cornell University-

    INTRODUCTION
    Naled is a fast acting, non-systemic contact and stomach poison in insects and mites (2). It is used as a short-term fumigant to control agricultural pests on ornamentals in greenhouses, animal and poultry houses, kennels and food processing plants (1, 6). Liquid formulations can be applied to greenhouse heating pipes to kill insects by vapor action. Naled is also used for municipal and other large area mosquito control programs (3). It has been used by veterinarians to kill parasitic worms (other than tapeworms) in dogs (6). Naled is available in dust, emulsion concentrate, liquid and ULV formulations (3).
    Naled is one of a class of insecticides referred to as organophosphates. These chemicals act by interfering with the activities of cholinesterase, an enzyme that is essential for the proper working of the nervous systems of both humans and insects. Please refer to the Toxicology Information Brief on cholinesterase-inhibition for a more detailed description of this topic.
    TOXICOLOGICAL EFFECTS
    ACUTE TOXICITY
    Naled is moderately to highly toxic by ingestion, inhalation and dermal adsorption. Vapors or fumes of naled are corrosive to the mucous membranes lining the mouth, throat and lungs, and inhalation may cause severe irritation (9). A sensation of tightness in the chest and coughing are commonly experienced after inhalation (14). As with all organophosphates, naled is readily absorbed through the skin. Skin which has come in contact with this material should be washed immediately with soap and water and all contaminated clothing should be removed. Persons with respiratory ailments, recent exposure to cholinesterase inhibitors, impaired cholinesterase production, or with liver malfunction may be at increased risk from exposure to naled. High environmental temperatures or exposure of naled to visible or UV light may enhance its toxicity (9).
    The organophosphate insecticides are cholinesterase inhibitors. They are highly toxic by all routes of exposure. When inhaled, the first effects are usually respiratory and may include bloody or runny nose, coughing, chest discomfort, difficult or short breath, and wheezing due to constriction or excess fluid in the bronchial tubes. Skin contact with organophosphates may cause localized sweating and involuntary muscle contractions. Eye contact will cause pain, bleeding, tears, pupil constriction, and blurred vision. Following exposure by any route, other systemic effects may begin within a few minutes or be delayed for up to 12 hours. These may include pallor, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal cramps, headache, dizziness, eye pain, blurred vision, constriction or dilation of the eye pupils, tears, salivation, sweating, and confusion. Severe poisoning will affect the central nervous system, producing incoordination, slurred speech, loss of reflexes, weakness, fatigue, involuntary muscle contractions, twitching, tremors of the tongue or eyelids, and eventually paralysis of the body extremities and the respiratory muscles. In severe cases there may also be involuntary defecation or urination, psychosis, irregular heart beats, unconsciousness, convulsions and coma. Death may be caused by respiratory failure or cardiac arrest (9).
    Some organophosphates may cause delayed symptoms beginning 1 to 4 weeks after an acute exposure which may or may not have produced more immediate symptoms. In such cases, numbness, tingling, weakness and cramping may appear in the lower limbs and progress to incoordination and paralysis. Improvement may occur over months or years, but some residual impairment may remain in some cases (9).
    Naled may cause dermatitis (skin rashes) and skin sensitization (allergies) (2, 6). It is corrosive to the skin and eyes and may cause permanent damage (3). An aerial applicator developed contact dermatitis after using Dibrom. The exposed area became red and felt burned. Later, water filled blisters formed. They became itchy and dry, then flaked off (ACGIH TLVS 4th Ed. & Supplement. 1980).
    CHRONIC TOXICITY
    Repeated or prolonged exposure to organophosphates may result in the same effects as acute exposure including the delayed symptoms. Other effects reported in workers repeatedly exposed include impaired memory and concentration, disorientation, severe depressions, irritability, confusion, headache, speech difficulties, delayed reaction times, nightmares, sleepwalking and drowsiness or insomnia. An influenza-like condition with headache, nausea, weakness, loss of appetite, and malaise has also been reported (9).
     
  9. fisher

    fisher Beach Fanatic

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    Hah. Safe products from Bayer. All Bayer is interested in is their bottom line. They could care less if they produce safe products. Bayer wants products that sell. And they will market these products to the bitter end.

    Safe products. Hah. Tell that to all the victims of severe reactions (including death from rhabdomyolosis and liver failure) to the Bayer anti cholesterol drug Baycol that was pulled from the market by the FDA due to so many deaths and disabilities caused by this SAFE product from Bayer.

    Safe products my rear end. Bayer could care less the long term effects Dibrom has on people as long as it is benefiting the bottom line. Dibrom is extremely toxic. Do you really believe a pesticide as toxic as Dibrom is safe for any living thing.

    See my previous post
     
  10. florida girl

    florida girl Beach Fanatic

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    I didn't read anywhere concerning dosage amounts specified for the results given, nor results for what the plane is actually doing, in the amount and dissipation rate, or evidence of harm as a result of the spraying. Nor did I read an alternative given to resolve the problem, instead of ignoring it. To say the problem isn't there, is not feasible.
    I don't see either that you have actually experienced being bitten 1000 times!??
     
  11. InletBchDweller

    InletBchDweller SoWal Insider

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    This afternoon,

    beautiful sunset at Grayton....:wub: :clap:


    loads of flies biting you.....:angry: :bang:
     
  12. fisher

    fisher Beach Fanatic

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    I just don't see the problem with the flies. They are bothersome, but not harmful and they go away after a month or two.

    You see the flies, which are not toxic or lethal in any way, as a problem and the chemical spraying as a mere nuisance. I see the non-lethal, non-toxic flies as a nuisance and the toxic chemicals as harmful to the environment, to other animals/insects and to man.

    I assume you can google Dibrom or Naled and read any of the thousands of scientific studies stating that Dibrom is toxic. Dogflyguy understands how toxic this stuff is--it only takes a tiny amount per acre to kill lots and lots of insects including dog flies. Even the manufacturer says it is a toxic chemical and provides a long list of precautions when handling/using this substance because it is so toxic.

    Many community governments that spray Dibrom actually warn people of potential side effects from being outdoors when spraying occurs. These communities tell their citizens that it is best to stay in doors when spraying is being done. Why? Because this stuff is toxic.

    There are major precautions about Dibrom killing bees which are suffering plummeting populations from an unknown cause--all we need is Dibrom adding to the problem.

    No studies have been done on the long term effects of Dibrom 10, 20 or 30 years down the road. However, the organophosphate pesticides are all toxic. That's why they use them to KILL bugs. Many of these pesticides have been pulled from the market AFTER they were in use for long periods of time because people and/or animals EVENTUALLY began showing signs of problems. So, they develop new organophosphates to replace the old ones. Regardless, they are all simply toxins meant to kill living organisms. Aren't humans living organisms?

    I for one don't want to be a guinea pig under a mass spraying program to find out just what this stuff will do to the body 10 or 30 years down the road.

    If you don't mind nasty chemicals, just slather yourself with OFF and the flies won't bother you. You will be taking the risk of long term damage to your body without risking others lives. However, the widespread spraying of pesticides puts everyone at risk, not just you. I don't want to be forced to be exposed to Dibrom or any other chemicals sprayed on the community at large.
     
  13. fisher

    fisher Beach Fanatic

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    A sample of research out there concluding that Dibrom is carcinogenic.

    Researchers at the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina studied the effects of the pesticide Dichlorvos on several types of laboratory animals. Dichlorvos was administered beginning at levels far below that needed to kill 50% of the animals (called LD-50). Levels administered ranged from 4 to 40 mg/kg (milligrams per kilogram) body weight. The study itself was carried out for 103 weeks.

    While there were no changes seen in test animals exposed to the pesticide when compared to animals not exposed to the pesticide (controls) regarding body weights and survival rates, there were other serious health effects observed. The researchers did find significantly higher cancer rates affecting the pancreas - forestomach - as well as mononuclear cell leukemia in male rats.

    The so-called "safety" of dichlorvos may have been based on articles appearing in the journal Mutation Research in which scientists were reported to "down-play" the cancer risk. However, as stated by the scientists in this more recent research paper (pg.158):

    "Different views on the carcinogenicity data have been published; most indicate that the earlier studies were inadequate (2 references pg.158) flawed (1 reference pg.158) or showed unequivocal carcinogenicity (2 references pg.158). According to the EPA (using all the available data) "dichlorvos has been classified as a carcinogen based on oncogenic effects in mice and rats (1 reference pg.158)...... Increased incidences of mononuclear cell leukemia was observed in dosed male and female rats. In the male rats the increase in incidence was dose-related and statistically significant. Incidences of multiple fibroademonmas were seen in 9 exposed female rats whereas none were observed in the controls.

    In conclusion the researchers stated,

    "Dichlorvos caused or was associated with neoplastic responses in rats (pancreas, hematopoietic system, and possibly the mammary gland) and in mice (forestomach)."
     
  14. fisher

    fisher Beach Fanatic

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    Russian scientists studied the growth rates of Bream (a fish common in Florida) after exposure to the dibrom/naled contaminant known as "dichlorvos." The first major effect detected was a significant reduction in the growth rates of the fish. Scientists at the Institute of the Biology of Inland Waters, Russian Academy of Sciences, attempted to locate the exact reasons for this reduction in growth. They theorized that enzymes in the fish gut were being damaged by the pesticides. However, this turned out not to be the case, as reported in the Bulletin of Environmental Contamination Toxicology, 52:338, 1994. Further research is now warranted, but researchers believe it may be due to the subtle neurotoxic actions of the pesticide and its effects upon the areas of the brain involved in feeding or food search mechanisms.

    I. L. Golovanova, G. M. Chuiko, D. F. Pavlov
    Institute of Biology of Inland Waters, Russian Academy of Sciences
    Borok, Yaroslavie Region, Russia
     
  15. fisher

    fisher Beach Fanatic

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    Seven children with bone marrow disorders have been observed over the past 8 years by physicians at Travis Air Force Base Medical Center in California. The physicians believe the blood disorders, in all cases, were caused by organophosphate pesticides.. All blood disorders occurred shortly after exposure to the pesticides DDVP/propoxur and malathion. The duration of inhaling insecticides ranged from 2 minutes in a patient enveloped in a thick insecticide fog in a small shed to 2 days in other patients whose homes were fumigated by their parents. Six patients had aplastic anemia and one had acute lymphoblastic leukemia. The physicians also cited research showing leukemia in farmers has significantly increased during the period of 1964 to 1976 (Mayo Clinic Proc, 53:714-18, 1978). Apple growers exposed to organophosphates had a higher incidence of leukopenia (very low white blood count) than a control population (Canadian Medical Association Journal, 92:597-602, 1965).

    Drs. Jerry D. Reeves, David A. Driggers, Vincent A Kiley
    Department of Pediatrics, David Grant Medical Center
    Travis Air Force Base, California



    Also go to http://www.pesticideinfo.org/ for detailed info on Dibrom.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2007
  16. fisher

    fisher Beach Fanatic

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    One final post--

    If Dibrom (Naled) is not toxic why is the EPA reveiwing its use in many areas. An example of an EPA issued change of use due to toxicity is noted below. You can find all kinds of scholarly articles on the toxicity of this pesticide and all the other organophosphates out there. It takes all of 5 minutes to uncover a wealth of info.

    Disulfoton and Naled Cancellations and Use Deletions Proposed

    As announced in a Federal Register notice published on January 10, 2002, EPA has received requests from three registrants to cancel certain products and delete several uses of disulfoton and naled. The Agency is assessing and mitigating the individual and cumulative risks of these and other organophosphate (OP) pesticides in determining whether they meet current standards for reregistration and tolerance reassessment.
    Disulfoton is an insecticide and acaricide primarily used on a variety of field grown agricultural crops, ornamentals, and Christmas trees. Bayer Corporation has proposed to delete certain crop uses from its disulfoton product labels, including dry beans, peas and lentils, poplars grown for pulpwood, sorghum, soybeans, tobacco, and triticale. Value Garden Supply, LLC wishes to voluntarily cancel two lawn and garden products containing disulfoton. Naled, also an insecticide and acaricide, is used primarily to control mosquitoes. Sergeant's Pet Products, Inc. has proposed to voluntarily cancel four flea and tick pet collar products containing naled.
     
  17. florida girl

    florida girl Beach Fanatic

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    Of course you don't see the problem with the flies, because we have been spraying them for years! That and we have been in a drought for at least 2 years! The Mosquito Control program was started in 1964, were you here then? If you weren't, then how can you know? You apparently have no idea what conditions were at that time, and instead of coming up with some reasonable alternative to the afore mentioned poison, you think that because of the relative comfort we now enjoy, we should discontinue the program? Did you know that we once tried raising cattle here but the fly's/insects were so bad that even cattle couldn't survive? We live in a sub tropical climate, insects, etc., are and have been a situation that could not be ignored! What would happen if we discontinued the Mosquito Control program? Have you investigated that? Considering our main industry is tourism, what would happen to that? If the insect problem returned to what it was, tourists would not be able to come, or live here. Real Estate would crash, a long with all the associated jobs that go with it. Investors would completely lose their shirts, no one would buy! I doubt seriously that even you would be able to stay. We would have another exodus like we had before, when a large population left and abandoned their homes. Instead of condemning what we do, or have done about the insect problem, COME UP WITH ANOTHER VIABLE SOLUTION!!!
     
  18. CPort

    CPort Beach Fanatic

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    And the beat goes on..........an on.........:roll:
     
  19. dogflyguy

    dogflyguy Beach Lover

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    Fisher
    I don't like dibrom either ,but like florida girl say's until you come up with a better solution i would rather stay inside until the spray breaks down. you seem to like to research thing ,well why don't you research how many thousands of floridians were killed!!! over the last 100 yrs by Mosquitoe borne diseases. do you not think it can't happen in this modern society, just look at places like Africa who still have thousands of deaths a yr. Also chk with some of the oldtimers from just the 70's and 80's and ask them if you could get anywhere near the beach for 3 months(dogfly season). read some of the old Indian tales of how they would coat themselves with just about anything so they could fish. most hotels and condo's dont remeber how bad it was because all the mom and pop motels are gone replaced with new polluting,water using,scenery stealing condo's,who have not yet seen the total wrath the dogfly can be on their bottom line, sure id like to see a better chemical and of course i dont want my job to end, but i support the spraying also because im an avid outdoors man and im more scared of the food i eat and the crazy people than i am of being sprayed by such a miniscule amount of pesticide. which by the way is so much smaller than even the amounts that they used in those rat studies you posted. I also keep reading the statment that we dont get notified when they spray. We the Dogfly program notify every county mosquitoe program when we are about to start our season and send out letters asking for permission to do so, saying that we will be spraying fom now usally sept 01 to nov 30 when everdogfly counts warrent it. which is determined by spotters( mosquitoe district employee's)going to preselected erea's and doing landing rate counts every Day!!! so the district's know every day at least 2 hours before we spray and it's up to them to notify the public in their counties and you can be put on a list to be notified of when they are going to spray near you , so you DO!!! have a choice of being sprayed or not. No no one know's yet the long term effects of dibrom or sweet n low or thousand other so called healthy products on the market are. How many people and cities are poisoned by vehicles yet i bet every one on this board has at least one if not two or more of these must have Killers!!!!!. Oh and anyone of you that can come up with a REAL Proven non toxic dogfly spray for the human is crazy if you don't patent it you would be a millionaire,but ive see just about every concoction you could put together including 100% deet and none of them work very well unless you use something that you wont have dogfly's or human's anywhere within 2 mile's of you but maybe a turkey buzzard or two (LOL). Have agreat day Yall The dang dogflyguy
     
  20. florida girl

    florida girl Beach Fanatic

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    Amen, Bro! :clap: :clap: :clap:
     

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