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Zebraspots

Beach Fanatic
May 15, 2008
840
247
Santa Rosa Beach
Our issues:
Candidates view on firefighters right to be actively involved in political action while off duty.

Candidates views on firefighters right to due process and to bargain in good faith for Fair and competitive working conditions, wages and benefits for firefighters.

What kind of political action? Isn't the fire department/district non-partisan?

Isn't due process guaranteed by law? Is the SWFD a closed shop? Are they allowed to strike as part of the bargaining process?
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,648
1,773
Osbourne, sounds like you wanted to dictate the terms on which you would speak to a vitally important constituency in this county. I have observed you at County Commission meetings and find this to be par for the course. You demand to have the questions framed in a method that will justify your answer. If the questioner refuses to comply, you simply attack the questioner. As everyone knows, these ad hominem attacks are one of the basic fallacies of logic....

Excuse me, but to not understand that there is an extreme difference between the FireFighters' UNION, and the firefighters, is a big over site.

I've attended most of the BCC meetings when Alan Osborne spoke on behalf of 170 homeowners and their families. I can somewhat see how you might perceive Alan's position the way you do, but from my point of view, Alan has stuck to the facts, and it was the BCC and their Interim Attorney who were making him, jump through hoops, so that they could avoid the real question. Perhaps the UNION for the Firefighters have a similar attorney who tries to word the questions in such a way that they cannot be completely answered without candidate knowing more information. I haven't seen the questions, but I recall word problem math tests in elementary school, where the correct answer was: "not enough information given to know the answer."
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,648
1,773
SWProfire:

As I mentioned above, it might be even more powerful for your organization and helpful to others if you were willing to share reasons why your group voted to support the candidates you are. I realize it was based on a questionnaire and some additional live questions. Could you at least share with us the questionnaire and candidate's responses from those who did respond?

Our issues:
Knowledge of our District and the fire service in general.

Knowledge of established standards relating to adequate fire department staffing levels.

Candidates view on the need for safe and up to date life saving apparatus and equipment.

Candidate view on improvements needed in the local fire service.

Candidates view on fire district funding.

Candidates view on the local impact of service consolidation.

Candidates view on firefighters right to be actively involved in political action while off duty.

Candidates views on firefighters right to due process and to bargain in good faith for Fair and competitive working conditions, wages and benefits for firefighters.
Were these the "questions" asked, or are these just items of interest?
Anyone can have views on those subjects, and the subjects are very broad, yet, a candidate's responses have nothing to do with that which you state in a previous post, that your decision to support a candidate is based on proving himself in the past.

I'd like you to post the actual questions. By refusing to do so, you are ripping the credibility sheet from under your feet.

I'm beginning to wonder if the Fire District Board members have something to do with the UNION's decision to back particular candidates.

Our local politics follow a similar paradigm in that we endorse candidates who have proven their support of these ideals throughout their term, and not just talked about it during their campaign.

I guess I am even confused as to why the questions would be asked to any new candidates running, who had not previously held office, since your Union "endorse(s) candidates who have proven their support of these ideals throughout their term, and not just talked about it during their campaign."
 

BeachSiO2

Beach Fanatic
Jun 16, 2006
3,294
737
What kind of political action? Isn't the fire department/district non-partisan?

Isn't due process guaranteed by law? Is the SWFD a closed shop? Are they allowed to strike as part of the bargaining process?

From where I am standing, it looks like the firefighters in question are not supporting candidates as part of the SWFD. They are supporting the candidates as part of the local firefighters union, no different that any other union and more power to them.

As for your second question, it has not been played up in Sowal as it has in other localities, but there is currently legislation regarding collective bargaining and unions for fire and police that have been introduced in Congress. Let me repost the local union link and I would recommend you looking at the bottom of the page from the firefighters point of view. http://www.local3516.com/

As you can imagine, there are many local governments that are actively fighting against some of the legislation for a variety of reasons, including costs. I have heard about it in a couple of other states where I currently work. It's not a simple cut and dried issue, and I don't claim to know the facts. What I do know is that it is much bigger than it seems on the surface and local governments in Tennessee and North Carolina use the word "bankruptcy" and "huge tax increase" when they discuss it. I am not surprised that it would be part of the process the local union is using for their decision making.
 

SoWalProfire

Beach Lover
Jul 22, 2008
75
74
www.local3516.com
Excuse me, but to not understand that there is an extreme difference between the FireFighters' UNION, and the firefighters, is a big over site.

Of the 86 firefighters eligible by law to be in our labor organization, 85 are.

So, contrary to your statement, there is not an extreme difference between the firefighters union and the firefighters. You can spin it anyway you like.

We are not a closed shop. Every member has the right to join or not join. All but one are members. This is because being a member gives them even more opportunity to actively help this community.
 

rdelong43065

Beach Fanatic
May 28, 2007
678
121
58
Seagrove
What kind of political action? Isn't the fire department/district non-partisan?

Isn't due process guaranteed by law? Is the SWFD a closed shop? Are they allowed to strike as part of the bargaining process?

I do believe that the fire district and the firefighter's union are two separate entities. From what I have seen in the past, people think they are one and the same. As stated in a past posting, the firefighter's union is funded by the membership. They can do what they feel like with their own money.
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,648
1,773
SoWalProFire, I guess you will next tell me that Teachers Unions are the same as teachers. Unions are after the things which benefits unions. Regardless of 85 of 86 firefighters joining the union because of peer pressure or promises for higher wages, the Union is not the same as the firefighters.

I am a Realtor, not part of a union, because I am self-employed. Every year, Florida Association of Realtors automatically includes a fee on the bill to pay for PACs (Political Action Committees). One has to deduct that fee if they don't want their money to go toward the PAC. To say that Realtors are the same as the Florida Association of Realtors is not similar to what you are saying about the firefighters and their Union, but it is far from the truth. More often than not, I disagree with the stance of the Florida Association of Realtors. I will add that the Emerald Coast Association of Realtors (ECAR) endorses candidates, and while I am a member of ECAR, I don't necessarily agree with their choice of candidates. I haven't seen their endorsements this year, and I was pleased to see that ECAR hosted a Meet the Candidates forum without endorsing any particular candidates.

Say what you want about unions working for their members, but unions work for the unions.

Now back to my question, which you chose to skip -- Why does your union send out questionaires to candidates who have no previous voting history, since your Union "endorse(s) candidates who have proven their support of these ideals throughout their term, and not just talked about it during their campaign?"
 

SoWalProfire

Beach Lover
Jul 22, 2008
75
74
www.local3516.com
I guess I am even confused as to why the questions would be asked to any new candidates running, who had not previously held office, since your Union endorses candidates who have proven their support of these ideals throughout their term, and not just talked about it during their campaign."


Sorry for the confusion. :blink: I just assumed that it would be clear to you that candidates who do not currently hold office have not had the opportunity to "prove" their support by action. So we let them "prove" their support by answering and signing a questionnaire, which they submit back to us. This is important because this puts in writing for all to see, where they stand on our issues. If a candidate chooses not to answer the questionnaire, it simply means that he or she does not wish our support of his or her campaign.

We do not hold it against anyone who does not wish our support. We simply do not support them. Fair enough? Our signs don't say "you are wrong for not supporting our candidate". They state, rather simply, "Firefighters Support (candidate name) for (Office)". We fully support your right to vote for whom ever you choose.

This whole thing started with someone asking why firefighters support political candidates. I believe that question has been answered repeatedly. It is starting to feel like a bit of a witch hunt. So carry on if you like, but I am done here.

So, use your American right to vote for whom you chose and we firefighters will do the same thing, collectively based on our own values, ideals and beliefs.
 

SoWalProfire

Beach Lover
Jul 22, 2008
75
74
www.local3516.com
SoWalProFire, I guess you will next tell me that Teachers Unions are the same as teachers. Unions are after the things which benefits unions. Regardless of 85 of 86 firefighters joining the union because of peer pressure or promises for higher wages, the Union is not the same as the firefighters.

I am a Realtor, not part of a union, because I am self-employed. Every year, Florida Association of Realtors automatically includes a fee on the bill to pay for PACs (Political Action Committees). One has to deduct that fee if they don't want their money to go toward the PAC. To say that Realtors are the same as the Florida Association of Realtors is not similar to what you are saying about the firefighters and their Union, but it is far from the truth. More often than not, I disagree with the stance of the Florida Association of Realtors. I will add that the Emerald Coast Association of Realtors (ECAR) endorses candidates, and while I am a member of ECAR, I don't necessarily agree with their choice of candidates. I haven't seen their endorsements this year, and I was pleased to see that ECAR hosted a Meet the Candidates forum without endorsing any particular candidates.

Say what you want about unions working for their members, but unions work for the unions.

Ok, it just became clear that you have no idea what you are talking about.:bang:

My firefighters union local is completely autonomous. We answer to no one but our own membership. Our Executive Board is made up of elected dues paying members who act at the direction of the rest of the dues paying membership within South Walton Professional Firefighters Assoc. Period. When you say that unions work for the unions and not for the members, I wonder who you think the "unions" are.

Furthermore, if you doubt our commitment to the safety and well-being of the members of this community as being our top priority you need to do a lot more research. After having done so, if you have any self respect or decency, I doubt that you will come back and try to sully our name and astound us with your ignorance again.
 
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