Get the lead out of yer herbs

I've seen Gidget and she is the picture of health. I'll take some of whatever she is taking. She looks and lives in a healther manner than 90 percent of the people I know. Science has its flaws just like everything else and that includes medical science.

I check my sups from consumer labs, because I don't always eat right and I have problems with dairy, so I need calicum if I don't get enough from greens and veggies. During the winter I add Vit D.


To call anyones beliefs crap as a blanket statment is crappy in itself.

I didn't see anybody call anybody's beliefs crap. I saw maybe a slight over-generalization about the vitamin industry. On the other side I see a widespread willingness to accept claims without evidence. It is my sincere opinion that this is not a good thing. Is that crap? I also think that judging a supplement's alleged benefits on the basis of anecdotal evidence rather than controlled experiment is not a good thing and this is bad for society as a whole. I'm grateful that the government is regulating this industry and subjecting the manufactures of these substances to scrutiny. That being said, I think people should be allowed to put into their body whatever they want even it entails ingesting toxic substances for which neither lethal nor effective doses are known.

I didn't see anybody call anybody's beliefs crap. I saw maybe a slight over-generalization about the vitamin industry. On the other side I see a widespread willingness to accept claims without evidence. It is my sincere opinion that this is not a good thing. Is that crap? I also think that judging a supplement's alleged benefits on the basis of anecdotal evidence rather than controlled experiment is not a good thing and this is bad for society as a whole. I'm grateful that the government is regulating this industry and subjecting the manufactures of these substances to scrutiny. That being said, I think people should be allowed to put into their body whatever they want even it entails ingesting toxic substances for which neither lethal nor effective doses are known.

THIS is what I was responding to, not you on an individual basis.


Gidget posted:
"Yeah, but you said "the herb/vitamin thing is a bunch of crap" - so are you saying herbs are crap or that herbs that are manufactured in loose ways are crap. That's why I wrote that."

Regulation is one thing, banning the industry is another. Many "approved" drugs are pulled over individual incidents when the numbers become overwhelming, not before they come out.

I'd like to see the numbers on herbal related deaths or health food related deaths. Even with the FDA involved, it does not stop people from dying from medications.

"Prescription drug reactions kill more than 100,000 a year

By BRENDA C. COLEMAN

April 15, 1998

Associated Press

CHICAGO ? Bad reactions to prescription and over-the-counter medicines kill more than 100,000 Americans and seriously injure an additional 2.1 million every year ? far more than most people realize, researchers say.

Such reactions, which do not include prescribing errors or drug abuse, rank at least sixth among U.S. causes of death ? behind heart disease, cancer, lung disease, strokes and accidents, says a report based on an analysis of existing studies.

"We're not saying, 'Don't take drugs.' They have wonderful benefits," said Dr. Bruce H. Pomeranz, principal investigator and a neuroscience professor at the University of Toronto.

"But what we're arguing is that there should be increased awareness also of side effects, which until now have not been too well understood."

The harm may range from an allergic reaction to an antibiotic to stomach bleeding from frequent doses of aspirin, Pomeranz said. The study, by Pomeranz and two colleagues at his school, Jason Lazarou and Paul N. Corey, did not explore which medications or illnesses were involved.

The authors analyzed 39 studies of hospital patients from 1966 to 1996. Serious drug reactions affected 6.7 percent of patients overall and fatal drug reactions 0.32 percent, the authors reported in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association.

In the study, serious injury was defined as being hospitalized, having to extend a hospital stay or suffering permanent disability.

The most surprising result was the large number of deaths, the authors said. They found adverse drug reactions ranked between fourth and sixth among leading causes of death, depending on whether they used their most conservative or a more liberal estimate.

In 1994, between 76,000 and 137,000 U.S. hospital patients died, and the "ballpark estimate" is 106,000, Pomeranz said. The low estimate, 76,000 deaths, would put drug reactions sixth. The ballpark estimate would put them fourth, he said.

An additional 1.6 million to 2.6 million patients were seriously injured, with the ballpark estimate 2.1 million, he said.

More than two-thirds of the cases involved reactions outside hospitals rather than in hospitals, the authors reported.

Experts commended the study but disagreed whether the estimates are on target.

Dr. David W. Bates of Partners Healthcare Systems and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston said the estimates may be high. One reason, he said, is that they may overrepresent large medical centers, which treat sicker than average patients, who are more prone to reactions.

"Nonetheless, these data are important, and even if the true incidence of adverse drug reactions is somewhat lower than that reported ... it is still high, and much higher than generally recognized," he said.

Dr. Sidney M. Wolfe, director of the consumer advocacy Public Citizen Health Research Group, said he believes the numbers are on target.

"I've read most of these studies, and they represent large hospitals, small hospitals ... a heterogeneous sample of the kinds of hospitals in this country, and include a whole range," Wolfe said by telephone Tuesday from Washington."

I trust little or nothing from outside this country after the pet food deaths a few years back. I was lucky. I was broke and could not buy my two their regular brand. It saved their lives as some of the cheaper brand werre not contaminated.
__________________

It has everything to do with this thread. If the shoe fits wear it.

You sure are a rude ___! I am truly beginning to see your true colors. FLIP OFF!

Very interesting to read that - it would appear that Skunky's warning was spot on and that is one of the few companies trying to do the right thing/position themselves for when it all hits the fan.

The example they gave of accepting only 4/45 batches - even from their trusted suppliers - should give everyone pause as to just what is being sold in stores.

I was always told that it was better to get your vitamins from a natural source - like fruits and vegetables - than in pill form. Partly because the pills were so skewed in their doses, partly because they weren't regulated, and partly because it was better to eat right than to pop a pill to make up for bad nutrition.

Yes I agree it is most telling! But at the same time, let's look at where a lot of our drugs are being made too - not just vitamins and herbs - not fair to pick on the herbs and supplements and it does appear that regulating hasn't done a whole heck of a lot when it comes to the safety of many FDA approved drugs.

Look, I totally 1000% believe what you say about getting your health from food and exercise - I do that. But for anyone to say that herbs can't have medicinal qualities is just plain wrong. And he said that - plain and simple and dismissed any positive effects as placebo. So I will fight that claim. Sure people go overboard with their trust in vitamins and supplements JUST AS THEY DO with many things - face creams, diet pills (FDA approved ones too), prescription and OTC drugs.

If Skunky had just posted the article that would have been fine, but he challenged the use of any diet supplement and herb as quackery - not just the manufacturing.

What I've learned from this? A lot. First, Lucifer is a jerk and a half and second, that I need to do my homework on the few supplements I take.

G

You sure are a rude ___! I am truly beginning to see your true colors. FLIP OFF!

News flash,it ain't all about you!

I'd like to see the numbers on herbal related deaths or health food related deaths. Even with the FDA involved, it does not stop people from dying from medications.

Yep, but let's pick on the supplement folk cause their are stupid and blindly believe everything on every label out there! SUCKERS!

I think I've said all I have to say on this - except thanks A for the compliments - I try girl!!

G

THIS is what I was responding to, not you on an individual basis.


Gidget posted:
"Yeah, but you said "the herb/vitamin thing is a bunch of crap" - so are you saying herbs are crap or that herbs that are manufactured in loose ways are crap. That's why I wrote that."

Regulation is one thing, banning the industry is another. Many "approved" drugs are pulled over individual incidents when the numbers become overwhelming, not before they come out.

I'd like to see the numbers on herbal related deaths or health food related deaths. Even with the FDA involved, it does not stop people from dying from medications.

"Prescription drug reactions kill more than 100,000 a year

By BRENDA C. COLEMAN

April 15, 1998

Associated Press

CHICAGO ? Bad reactions to prescription and over-the-counter medicines kill more than 100,000 Americans and seriously injure an additional 2.1 million every year ? far more than most people realize, researchers say.

Such reactions, which do not include prescribing errors or drug abuse, rank at least sixth among U.S. causes of death ? behind heart disease, cancer, lung disease, strokes and accidents, says a report based on an analysis of existing studies.

"We're not saying, 'Don't take drugs.' They have wonderful benefits," said Dr. Bruce H. Pomeranz, principal investigator and a neuroscience professor at the University of Toronto.

"But what we're arguing is that there should be increased awareness also of side effects, which until now have not been too well understood."

The harm may range from an allergic reaction to an antibiotic to stomach bleeding from frequent doses of aspirin, Pomeranz said. The study, by Pomeranz and two colleagues at his school, Jason Lazarou and Paul N. Corey, did not explore which medications or illnesses were involved.

The authors analyzed 39 studies of hospital patients from 1966 to 1996. Serious drug reactions affected 6.7 percent of patients overall and fatal drug reactions 0.32 percent, the authors reported in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association.

In the study, serious injury was defined as being hospitalized, having to extend a hospital stay or suffering permanent disability.

The most surprising result was the large number of deaths, the authors said. They found adverse drug reactions ranked between fourth and sixth among leading causes of death, depending on whether they used their most conservative or a more liberal estimate.

In 1994, between 76,000 and 137,000 U.S. hospital patients died, and the "ballpark estimate" is 106,000, Pomeranz said. The low estimate, 76,000 deaths, would put drug reactions sixth. The ballpark estimate would put them fourth, he said.

An additional 1.6 million to 2.6 million patients were seriously injured, with the ballpark estimate 2.1 million, he said.

More than two-thirds of the cases involved reactions outside hospitals rather than in hospitals, the authors reported.

Experts commended the study but disagreed whether the estimates are on target.

Dr. David W. Bates of Partners Healthcare Systems and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston said the estimates may be high. One reason, he said, is that they may overrepresent large medical centers, which treat sicker than average patients, who are more prone to reactions.

"Nonetheless, these data are important, and even if the true incidence of adverse drug reactions is somewhat lower than that reported ... it is still high, and much higher than generally recognized," he said.

Dr. Sidney M. Wolfe, director of the consumer advocacy Public Citizen Health Research Group, said he believes the numbers are on target.

"I've read most of these studies, and they represent large hospitals, small hospitals ... a heterogeneous sample of the kinds of hospitals in this country, and include a whole range," Wolfe said by telephone Tuesday from Washington."

I trust little or nothing from outside this country after the pet food deaths a few years back. I was lucky. I was broke and could not buy my two their regular brand. It saved their lives as some of the cheaper brand werre not contaminated.
__________________

Yes I knew you weren't responding to me. I wasn't the one who made the crap statement. I believe Skunky said something about the industry as a whole. That's not a personal indictment of somebody's beliefs, but now that we are on that subject I'd like to ask something. Whoever came up with the crazy notion that everybody's beliefs deserve to be respected? I can't think of a more dangerous notion.

News flash,it ain't all about you!

Newsflash

What about cranberry juice for prevention of bladder and urinary tract infections? That's really all I care about. I switched over to Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic for the supposed benefits, and that stuff is awful! I would rather drink that citrusy Blue Moon weasel piss whatever you call it.

Your such a pissant! j/k

THIS is what I was responding to, not you on an individual basis.


Gidget posted:
"Yeah, but you said "the herb/vitamin thing is a bunch of crap" - so are you saying herbs are crap or that herbs that are manufactured in loose ways are crap. That's why I wrote that."

Regulation is one thing, banning the industry is another. Many "approved" drugs are pulled over individual incidents when the numbers become overwhelming, not before they come out.

I'd like to see the numbers on herbal related deaths or health food related deaths. Even with the FDA involved, it does not stop people from dying from medications.

"Prescription drug reactions kill more than 100,000 a year

By BRENDA C. COLEMAN

April 15, 1998

Associated Press

CHICAGO ? Bad reactions to prescription and over-the-counter medicines kill more than 100,000 Americans and seriously injure an additional 2.1 million every year ? far more than most people realize, researchers say.

Such reactions, which do not include prescribing errors or drug abuse, rank at least sixth among U.S. causes of death ? behind heart disease, cancer, lung disease, strokes and accidents, says a report based on an analysis of existing studies.

"We're not saying, 'Don't take drugs.' They have wonderful benefits," said Dr. Bruce H. Pomeranz, principal investigator and a neuroscience professor at the University of Toronto.

"But what we're arguing is that there should be increased awareness also of side effects, which until now have not been too well understood."

The harm may range from an allergic reaction to an antibiotic to stomach bleeding from frequent doses of aspirin, Pomeranz said. The study, by Pomeranz and two colleagues at his school, Jason Lazarou and Paul N. Corey, did not explore which medications or illnesses were involved.

The authors analyzed 39 studies of hospital patients from 1966 to 1996. Serious drug reactions affected 6.7 percent of patients overall and fatal drug reactions 0.32 percent, the authors reported in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association.

In the study, serious injury was defined as being hospitalized, having to extend a hospital stay or suffering permanent disability.

The most surprising result was the large number of deaths, the authors said. They found adverse drug reactions ranked between fourth and sixth among leading causes of death, depending on whether they used their most conservative or a more liberal estimate.

In 1994, between 76,000 and 137,000 U.S. hospital patients died, and the "ballpark estimate" is 106,000, Pomeranz said. The low estimate, 76,000 deaths, would put drug reactions sixth. The ballpark estimate would put them fourth, he said.

An additional 1.6 million to 2.6 million patients were seriously injured, with the ballpark estimate 2.1 million, he said.

More than two-thirds of the cases involved reactions outside hospitals rather than in hospitals, the authors reported.

Experts commended the study but disagreed whether the estimates are on target.

Dr. David W. Bates of Partners Healthcare Systems and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston said the estimates may be high. One reason, he said, is that they may overrepresent large medical centers, which treat sicker than average patients, who are more prone to reactions.

"Nonetheless, these data are important, and even if the true incidence of adverse drug reactions is somewhat lower than that reported ... it is still high, and much higher than generally recognized," he said.

Dr. Sidney M. Wolfe, director of the consumer advocacy Public Citizen Health Research Group, said he believes the numbers are on target.

"I've read most of these studies, and they represent large hospitals, small hospitals ... a heterogeneous sample of the kinds of hospitals in this country, and include a whole range," Wolfe said by telephone Tuesday from Washington."

I trust little or nothing from outside this country after the pet food deaths a few years back. I was lucky. I was broke and could not buy my two their regular brand. It saved their lives as some of the cheaper brand werre not contaminated.
__________________

That's not surprising. Drugs that are effective tend to have risks and can kill you. I'll put my money on something that's been tested, proven effective, has documented risks, and is under constant scrutiny over untested folk remedies with a cult following any day.

Wow, did this thread blossom. Gidget, I applaud your efforts to educate yourself. It looks like the manufacturer or your supplements does a good job, but I suspect you end up paying for it at the cash register. I would guess without researching it that Wal-Mart or Walgreens sells more vitamins and supplements than anyone else in the US, and I know their wares are generally less expensive than what you see at a health food store, so the way I see it, that bottom line has to be the result of a cut in quality somewhere up the production chain. Could it be that the largest vendors of supplements in the US are selling the worst products?

Also to clarify, I didn't say anyone's beliefs were crap, I say the current state of the supplement industry is crap. It is hugely profitable, woefully regulated, frequently peddles products of dubious value and has successfully convinced millions of Americans that it offers products inherently safe because they are 'natural'. Sorry, it is a crappy industry-there are some good people associated with it and well meaning advocates, but all in all it profits on the fears of people. I'll change my think when the industry proves me wrong.

By the way (Gidget), I might have missed it, but I didn't see where NOW foods actually does their manufacturing. At first glance Illinois, but it never actually comes out and states this. Maybe I need to be fitted for a tin foil hat, but it looks like Illinois is thrown out there as a diversion.

Oops forgot to add that you might have to rethink antibiotics too skunky

More than 100 antibiotics enable China to establish complete industrial chain

With more than 100 antibiotics in production, China has now taken the lead worldwide in total production volume of antibiotics.

and...

FDA Scrutiny Scant In India, China as Drugs Pour Into U.S. - washingtonpost.com

In India, which has more plants making drugs and drug ingredients for American consumers than any other foreign nation, it conducted a handful....

So what's your take on these articles? Appears we are not just talking Vit C - Or am I reading these wrong? I am trying to educate myself. Thanks.

I'm calling NOW Foods tomorrow and asking.

Yes I knew you weren't responding to me. I wasn't the one who made the crap statement. I believe Skunky said something about the industry as a whole. That's not a personal indictment of somebody's beliefs, but now that we are on that subject I'd like to ask something. Whoever came up with the crazy notion that everybody's beliefs deserve to be respected? I can't think of a more dangerous notion.

Personally, it goes back to the golden rule for me. Anyone can believe in what God, medicine or whatever they like as far as I'm concerned. I don't want to be forced to think or live like anyone else, but who the hell am I to say someone else is wrong? I've been wrong on many things, that from the outside looked pretty open and shut. I want others to stay out of my choices and I, respectfully, will stay out of theirs. That's just my opinion and it holds no more weight than any other, but holds no less either. Live and let live.

Unless someone is a total wack-a-doo and is hurting someone, I think their opinion/perspective has merit. They may not be right, but it can be a good part of the discussion.

There are many herbs and vitamins that have been proven to work for various ailments and have been the basis for many medicines and treatments and are being actively researched - I don't think Skunky is disputing that - the issue is that "natural" does not necessarily mean "safe or good for you" but many choose to think it does at the expense of their health and against medical advice and overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Overdosing on supplements can be just as dangerous as overdosing on something from a pharmaceutical company - and apparently taking a pill of any kind is becoming increasingly dangerous due to the lack of oversight of the manufacturing processes.

Though it still falls far behind a "natural product" that is manufactured to include many dangerous chemicals .................. so that it will kill 1/3 people who use it. TOBACCO!

Standard Process Whole Food Supplements....grown, farmed, manufactured in Wisconsin!!! Check out their website and make your own informed decisions.

Skunky....and the pharma industry isnt in a state of crap??? The same claims and accusations can be made about Big Pharma which is mostly profit driven and riff with false claims, poor trial studies and questionable side effects sometimes not known for years later.
I think that, like certain supplements, there are good and useful drugs when used appropriately, have health/life saving benefits. But as you stated....buyer beware!

Personally, it goes back to the golden rule for me. Anyone can believe in what God, medicine or whatever they like as far as I'm concerned. I don't want to be forced to think or live like anyone else, but who the hell am I to say someone else is wrong? I've been wrong on many things, that from the outside looked pretty open and shut. I want others to stay out of my choices and I, respectfully, will stay out of theirs. That's just my opinion and it holds no more weight than any other, but holds no less either. Live and let live.

I believe in refraining from offering unsolicited viewpoints as a rule in the daily course of life, but when a deliberate and premeditated discussion forms, those niceties do not apply and anything goes! As a rule I wouldn't tell somebody they are wrong, but if somebody wants to engage as is happening here [on this thread], that's a different story. If you feel sure of something, you might be right about it, so it would be immoral not to state your case IMO [unless it's some trivial matter]. You'd be obligated to tell somebody you thought they were mistaken under certain circumstances. Otherwise live and let live, or let die whatever, it's not my damn problem, agreed.

This is a discussion board, so I don't see the benefit of holding back when the BS meter is in the red. If I find out I'm wrong then I'd learn from it without looking back. That should be enough. I heard someone else say that all opinions have merit. Well they are frying the BS meter to the point where it is smokin'. Johnny Cochrane won court cases because of people like that.

Newsflash

Is that from Revenge of the Stepford Wives?

As far as folic acid, sorry, but until a prenatal vitamin or folate tab is known to be produced in a safe plant, it is not worth it. Luckily folic acid is added to a wide variety of foods and is available naturally in others, so there probably will not be an epidemic of neural tube defects.

Just to point out your ignorance on the topic of vitamins alone, this is taken right from the Dept. of Health and Human Services web site relative to folic acid and pregnancy:

Can I get enough folic acid through food alone?

The body does not use the natural form of folic acid (folate) as easily as the manmade form. We cannot be sure that eating foods that contain folate would have the same benefits as consuming folic acid. Also, even if you eat a healthy, well-balanced diet, you might not get all the nutrients you need every day from food alone. In the United States, most women who eat foods enriched with folic acid are still not getting all that they need. That’s why it’s important to take a vitamin with folic acid every day.

It seems it would be seriously negligent to tell someone not to supplement their diets with this crucial vitamin (which lowers the risk of neural tube defects by 70%) prior to or during pregnancy because there might be the added risk of trace contaminants; of which you can not prove even exists in foods that are fortified or that these possible trace contaminants could result in physical harm to the fetus and/or later in life.

I bet it is hard to be a doctor, have the health and well-being of your patients in your hands (and on your mind 24/7), and have a percentage of your patients trying to cure themselves with stuff they read on the internet or Redbook, or hear from the salesperson at the GNC store or an infomercial. Of course there are educated patients out there- but the ones posting on this thread are not the norm- you have taken the time to research. Skunky's words have obviously hit a nerve with you- sit in the other chair and have sick people look at you- sick people you know how to make better, and know they will walk out the door and do what they want because they think they know better (or have read another too-good-to be-true scam that sounds easier than what the doc ordered).

I think Skunky was posting out of frustration, and some of you need to take some St. John's Wort and maybe a little kava kava because he seems to have hit a nerve. His dry sense of humor might not be immediately apparent in his posts, but before you start attacking him, maybe you need to know that one of the reasons patients love him is that he doesn't hand out prescriptions like candy, and actually works hard to get people off many of the unecessary drugs (prescription, herbs, and quack) other docs here and elsewhere have given to them.

When it comes down to it, I want my doctor to look at me and say "if it's too good to be true, it probably is" - he won't take chances with my health, my time, or my money.

I bet it is hard to be a doctor, have the health and well-being of your patients in your hands (and on your mind 24/7), and have a percentage of your patients trying to cure themselves with stuff they read on the internet or Redbook, or hear from the salesperson at the GNC store or an infomercial. Of course there are educated patients out there- but the ones posting on this thread are not the norm- you have taken the time to research. Skunky's words have obviously hit a nerve with you- sit in the other chair and have sick people look at you- sick people you know how to make better, and know they will walk out the door and do what they want because they think they know better (or have read another too-good-to be-true scam that sounds easier than what the doc ordered).

I think Skunky was posting out of frustration, and some of you need to take some St. John's Wort and maybe a little kava kava because he seems to have hit a nerve. His dry sense of humor might not be immediately apparent in his posts, but before you start attacking him, maybe you need to know that one of the reasons patients love him is that he doesn't hand out prescriptions like candy, and actually works hard to get people off many of the unecessary drugs (prescription, herbs, and quack) other docs here and elsewhere have given to them.

When it comes down to it, I want my doctor to look at me and say "if it's too good to be true, it probably is" - he won't take chances with my health, my time, or my money.

Thanks, and with that said, I am going to check out for awhile. I am really interested to find out the origins of the various Vitamin D/Calcium supplements, as this is indeed one that I routinely recommend to older folks. And contrary to popular belief, I saw a study last year that suggests we do not get enough Vitamin D from the sun, even here in Florida!

And I might also add, if your healthcare provider dispenses supplements in her office, ask if you can find out the country of manufacture. Not two months ago someone came in to discuss alcohol addiction;this john doe brought in four or five vials of some brew in cobalt blue botttles dispensed by a 'natural healer' operating on 30-A. She said they made her feel sick and asked what I thought. I was floored to see that the only English on the labels was a list of dozens of Asian herbs (I guess they were herbs, all the names were terms like 'moo goo gai pan', etc., and I do mean dozens of names like that on each bottle. The rest of the labeling was written in an alphabet that looked like Russian. Seriously. And to boot, this provider sold her this junk for near $500. Not surprisingly, he/she felt worse after drinking this stuff as directed by his/her healer and had not one iota improvement in alcohol addiction. I suggested she throw it away. This is the stuff that drives me nuts.

My morning snooping - y'all ready!

Called NOW FOODS - very very nice man helped me. He was very open and said that YES, the vit C was made in China and that they did strict quality testing at their facility here in the states. I asked him WHY it didn't say that on my bottle and he said that labeling "country of origin" was not standard practice. So Skunky gets it right when he says that the bottle label doesn't mean it is made in that country.

THEN I next called Pfizer and boy did I get the run around. I simply asked if they could tell me what drugs, if any are manufactured in China. She asked my name, spelling of my last name, my phone number and then put me on hold for 10 minutes. When she came back she said: "I'm not at liberty to give that information"! After I pressed further, she said ok, you tell me a drug and I'll look and see where it is made. So I said Lipitor - and she said Ireland and Puerto Rico and then I said Viagra and she said France. So I said, "can't you even tell me if you manufacture any drugs in China?" And she stumbled around and finally said well we do have a place in Beiging, People's Rep of China but that's as far as she would take it.... so IDK

Appears from further research that A LOT and I mean A LOT of things, not just supplements are made in China and NO ONE WANTS US TO KNOW lol!

Now, back to my real life, yes, I do have one ha ha!

G

My morning snooping - y'all ready!

Called NOW FOODS - very very nice man helped me. He was very open and said that YES, the vit C was made in China and that they did strict quality testing at their facility here in the states. I asked him WHY it didn't say that on my bottle and he said that labeling "country of origin" was not standard practice. So Skunky gets it right when he says that the bottle label doesn't mean it is made in that country.

THEN I next called Pfizer and boy did I get the run around. I simply asked if they could tell me what drugs, if any are manufactured in China. She asked my name, spelling of my last name, my phone number and then put me on hold for 10 minutes. When she came back she said: "I'm not at liberty to give that information"! After I pressed further, she said ok, you tell me a drug and I'll look and see where it is made. So I said Lipitor - and she said Ireland and Puerto Rico and then I said Viagra and she said France. So I said, "can't you even tell me if you manufacture any drugs in China?" And she stumbled around and finally said well we do have a place in Beiging, People's Rep of China but that's as far as she would take it.... so IDK

Appears from further research that A LOT and I mean A LOT of things, not just supplements are made in China and NO ONE WANTS US TO KNOW lol!

Now, back to my real life, yes, I do have one ha ha!

G

My $100 per month Doctor ordered nasal spray is made in China.

More and more it seems that Papa Scooterbug might have been on to something by telling us the mold on the cheese/bread in the fridge was just as good as what the doctor gave you.

More and more it seems that Papa Scooterbug might have been on to something by telling us the mold on the cheese/bread in the fridge was just as good as what the doctor gave you.

Well, at least you know the country of origin of your penicillin.