Hands Across the Sand-Join us to stop near shore Oil Drilling In Florida Waters

Noon CST!

I believe I read that the time has changed to 1pm, fyi.

I think I should show up to this meeting and just see how many big V-8 sports cars, convertibles, and S.U.V.'s are in the parking lot.
I mean really, this is as important to the fragile eco system as anything else. But you don't
see people giving up there status symbols for the cause now do you???
WHAT??? me give up my BMW Convertible ????? Nooooooo
Please

Oh, and also lets not forget a parking lot for all those golf carts............

Hopefully the meeting attendees will bring better attitudes than yours to this important gathering. I am sure many SUV drivers are like me- bought them when there was little discussion and education about energy conservation, and an huge emphasis on having lots of room to safely haul around kids, their friends, the dogs, and the gear. I still have the kids, the friends, the dogs, the gear, and a car that is almost paid off. When it is time to buy the next car, there are better choices available than when we car shopped five years ago. As far as status symbols go, I wouldn't know about those, since we are not status symbol people.

We need to work together to protect our beach, and getting all snarky about the cars driven by the people attending this meeting is not helpful. Local businesses should be thankful for every single local and visitor who attend this meeting and the Hands Across the Sand event, no matter what car they drive, to learn how too protect our tourism economy by protecting our beach- and in turn making sure you and other local restaurants and businesses can stay in business.

I've thought about this electric vehicle thing a bit, and since most of that electric power comes from coal, which supposedly is much worse on our environment than oil, I think the real answer is renewable energy sources, more efficient engine technology, less need for power (horsepower). There is no reason why a Honda Accord needs to have more than 200 hp. Convert that horsepower into more efficiency and bam, we make a dent in our energy consumption. The first Honda Accord(1979) sedan had 72 hp, and sold well because of its moderate size and fuel economy. The 2010 entry level Accord has 268 hp. By reducing that down to 180, we could improve the efficiency greatly, with no harm to the consumer, and great benefit to the environment. Each year, they add more horsepower and keep the miles per gallon pretty close to the same as the smaller hp engine. Instead, they should work on keeping the horsepower the same, and increasing the efficiency.

Some people may require more horsepower, such as a person who hauls a big work trailer, but they don't necessarily need all of the horsepower all of the time, so money spent on improving new technology to switch the V8 to a V4 on the fly, could also conserve.

Just my quick spill. (Did I say spill? as in oil spill?)

I think NOLA brings up a good point in that each of our choices (like the MPG of our vehicles and how many we own and the settings of our thermostats and how many bottles of water we drink) are a big part of what is driving the push for drilling here.

But just become someone has an SUV doesn't mean they are doing more damage to the environment or consuming more oil (it's in freaking everything) than someone who thinks they are "green" because they drive a smaller vehicle.

I think NOLA brings up a good point in that each of our choices (like the MPG of our vehicles and the settings of our thermostats and how many bottles of water we drink) are a big part of what is driving the push for drilling here.

Yes, but there are less divisive ways to bring up those points- pointing fingers at people trying to make a difference is unproductive. I think the people that are interested in this issue aren't the same people who are the "eff you I will drive my gaz guzzling behemoth because it's my right no matter what and screw everyone else" crowd.

You replied so fast you missed my edit!

You replied so fast you missed my edit!

Well..I know what you mean, but it doesn't change my reply.

I just hope everyone attends this meeting to gain an understanding of the impact that offshore drilling would have on our tourism economy here (precarious at best) and our natural beauty and way of life. Mistakes have been made in the past, however, that does not mean that future mistakes have to be made!

I believe I read that the time has changed to 1pm, fyi.

hopefully we will get clarification of time closer to the event, but this is what the website currently says:

What To Do On…
February 13, 2010

STEP 1 Go to the beach at 1:00 PM Eastern/12:00 PM Central Time for one hour, rain or shine.

STEP 2 At 1:30 PM EST/12:30 PM CST, hold hands forming lines in the sand against oil drilling in our coastal waters.

STEP 3 Leave only your footprints.

Tips of the Day…

1. Use only approved beach accesses and parking.
2. Create as long a line or as many lines as you wish.
3. Be courteous and respectful to those who disagree with your view.
4. …enjoy yourself, it's the beach!

May I make a suggestion for those needing parking to attend "Hands Across The Sand". We will open our parking lot for people to park and use our access to the beach as our guests for the period of the event. It is Sea Bluff on 30A. I further suggest that private owners or condominium owners who believe in this project do the same thing in their areas. Just a thought since beach access parking is so limited.

Yes, but there are less divisive ways to bring up those points- pointing fingers at people trying to make a difference is unproductive. I think the people that are interested in this issue aren't the same people who are the "eff you I will drive my gaz guzzling behemoth because it's my right no matter what and screw everyone else" crowd.

very good points jdarg. I would like to add that more and more people in our community are very much concerned about their next car being more fuel efficient. I know of very few who do not share that concern who have already made the switch to a more efficient vehicle, or who plan to as soon as feasible.

yes, we do have many visitors from the big cities who drive their huge family SUVs down - I mean, we can barely maneuver around them in the little roads in Seaside, etc. and yes - many locals still drive big SUVs and/or beach trucks. STILL, most of us make every effort to conserve, and will continue to do so whenever and however we can. everyone is in this thing together. we all have to watch our consumption for several reasons - including environmental and financial. We have a need to protect our environment as well as our wallets.

further, I have seen at least a dozen personal friends, not to mention a ton of family members in other cities, turn in their gas hogs for smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles - over the last several years! my aunt drives a smart car and its really neat. not sure if I want one that small - but maybe - we kind of have to revise our thinking when it comes to transportation modes, vehicles, etc. and we are doing so.

Someone else mentioned it, but oil is the source for most things plastic. I wonder how many people understand that oil is used to make all of the plastic in their homes. Some people will burn more oil in their cars, while other people will jack up their heater in the winter, and blast the a/c on high during the summer, but maybe drive a Prius to balance out their impact. The observation of one's type of auto doesn't tell us much about people's total impact.

I've thought about this electric vehicle thing a bit, and since most of that electric power comes from coal,

SJ, you're right about Florida and it is a complex issue that needs to be fully considered, and studied carefully, etc. Probably not too complex to do a carbon or Co2 calculation based on a mile driven in an LSV vs. a typical SUV, and then back out the 30% of Florida electricity that is coal fired (FLORIDA IS AWFUL in this regard, damn near leads the nation). Place your bets. My bet is that the Co2 and Carbon footprint is damn incredibly (3x) better with an LSV vs. an average vehicle in Walton County, controlling for the carbon output of the average KW of Florida electricity. Harder to control for is the issue of having a 2nd LSV, essentially for fun, and eventually to throw away (or recycle?), and that's what makes me almost neutral on the whole issue - but not quite.
In practical terms, you're absolutely right that what we all REALLY need are basically 100 Horsepower vehicles, give or take 20%. Not 270 horsepower Accords, supplemented by a coal fired LSV.


If I come across any evidence or studies of the carbon output per passenger mile of an LSV, vs. average normally aspirated cars/truck/suvs, I'll share with the group. Likewise if anyone sees that, please share with me, I'd like to learn rather than guess.

Someone else mentioned it, but oil is the source for most things plastic. I wonder how many people understand that oil is used to make all of the plastic in their homes. Some people will burn more oil in their cars, while other people will jack up their heater in the winter, and blast the a/c on high during the summer, but maybe drive a Prius to balance out their impact. The observation of one's type of auto doesn't tell us much about people's total impact.

Tru Dat.

SJ, you're right about Florida and it is a complex issue that needs to be fully considered, and studied carefully, etc. Probably not too complex to do a carbon or Co2 calculation based on a mile driven in an LSV vs. a typical SUV, and then back out the 30% of Florida electricity that is coal fired (FLORIDA IS AWFUL in this regard, damn near leads the nation). Place your bets. My bet is that the Co2 and Carbon footprint is damn incredibly (3x) better with an LSV vs. an average vehicle in Walton County, controlling for the carbon output of the average KW of Florida electricity. Harder to control for is the issue of having a 2nd LSV, essentially for fun, and eventually to throw away (or recycle?), and that's what makes me almost neutral on the whole issue - but not quite.
In practical terms, you're absolutely right that what we all REALLY need are basically 100 Horsepower vehicles, give or take 20%. Not 270 horsepower Accords, supplemented by a coal fired LSV.


If I come across any evidence or studies of the carbon output per passenger mile of an LSV, vs. average normally aspirated cars/truck/suvs, I'll share with the group. Likewise if anyone sees that, please share with me, I'd like to learn rather than guess.

I get that the LSVs are maybe better for the environment, but I oppose them on safety and traffic issue reasons, so for this argument, I am not considering them.

If LSV's are so GD great for the environment then why oh why don't the manufacturer's include a solar panel on the roof and perhaps a solar based charging station?

It's a shame that robertsondavies won't be able to bring his "unique" perspective to the meeting since he would have to use 98 and his LSV wouldn't be legal there.

Maybe someone could be nice and carpool w/ him to reduce both of their emissions. :roll:

If LSV's are so GD great for the environment then why oh why don't the manufacturer's include a solar panel on the roof and perhaps a solar based charging station?

It's a shame that robertsondavies won't be able to bring his "unique" perspective to the meeting since he would have to use 98 and his LSV wouldn't be legal there.

dude, smoke a bowl and relax. I happen to support LSV's on balance, and I know you therefore hate me, half your neighbors and whoever is proposing to expand their use a bit on 30a (i have no idea who that group is) You really should put your vision down on paper, of 30a as an industrialized efficient thoroughfare of unrelated but loosely connected resort pods, and March on Tallahassee. If you make it past the Appalachicola river with that chip on your shoulder, don't let your legs tire. Drive on GB..... you must defeat any small step that is "better" for the environment, with your eloquent logic of "why no solar panels" if so GD good. Let's roll back federal advances on MPG efficiency standards too while we're at it. If 29 MilesP Gal. is so GD great for the environent, then SWGB says "why aint their solar panels on it"

Are you Karl Rove's alter ego?

I thought this thread was about a meeting regarding oil drilling?

I thought this thread was about a meeting regarding oil drilling?

I thought it was too, but I think someone has a golf cart/LSV business.

Hopefully the meeting attendees will bring better attitudes than yours to this important gathering. I am sure many SUV drivers are like me- bought them when there was little discussion and education about energy conservation, and an huge emphasis on having lots of room to safely haul around kids, their friends, the dogs, and the gear. I still have the kids, the friends, the dogs, the gear, and a car that is almost paid off. When it is time to buy the next car, there are better choices available than when we car shopped five years ago. As far as status symbols go, I wouldn't know about those, since we are not status symbol people.

We need to work together to protect our beach, and getting all snarky about the cars driven by the people attending this meeting is not helpful. Local businesses should be thankful for every single local and visitor who attend this meeting and the Hands Across the Sand event, no matter what car they drive, to learn how too protect our tourism economy by protecting our beach- and in turn making sure you and other local restaurants and businesses can stay in business.

Well put,

Now heres my input.
My attitude is just fine. And I have hardly gotten all snarky yet.
Apparently I have struck a nerve, and why is that?


Listen if you felt that I personally attacked you, then by all means I apologize. I did not originally write my post with the intention of attacking you.
Now in your reply you said we need to all work together
to protect our beaches. I fully agree! And I personally believe that
this is something that needs to be examined again, and again, and again till the point is taken.
This is something that we have all seen, one person in a huge SUV with one bag of groceries. Now, there are people out there who actually and truly need them and thats what they are there for, rock on, thats great but more often than not thats not the case.

I love our beaches, and I dont want to see them ruined.
The economy to our area is just as important to me as it is you,
Now with this being said everyone is entitled to there own opinion.
these are mine and I make no apologies for them, with the exception of
apologizing to you.

I just get tired of hearing the cry but not seeing the action.

Now you may come back and say whatever you wish. Im done here.
Im moving on. I refuse to have a battle of the wits, ideals, or thoughts, via a keyboard, and screen.

I'll say this as succinctly as I can. Drilling for oil off the white sand beaches of Florida is a BAD IDEA!

May I make a suggestion for those needing parking to attend "Hands Across The Sand". We will open our parking lot for people to park and use our access to the beach as our guests for the period of the event. It is Sea Bluff on 30A. I further suggest that private owners or condominium owners who believe in this project do the same thing in their areas. Just a thought since beach access parking is so limited.

This is a great idea Andy.

"Study says military missions, oil drilling can coexist in the gulf" - Read this Article in last weeks Sun.

Study says military missions, oil drilling can coexist in the gulf (DOCUMENT) | study, military, missions - Local News - WaltonSun.com

Well, it seems that oil drilling rigs can co-exist with the "chum fields" that R. Shaffer speaks of in the Sun. Gulf drilling has nothing on beach bombing | nothing, beach, well - Local News - WaltonSun.com

It seems we all should thank R. Shaffer for his articles in the Sun since November as it seems that the PR generated for Hands Across the Sand has been great !!!!! Someone should send a letter to the Editor of the Sun thanking Shaffer for his contribution to the event.

I hope the weather is nice on the 13th. See Y'all there.

"Citizens are stronger when they stick together" (quote from WaltonIsOne)

Hopefully the meeting attendees will bring better attitudes than yours to this important gathering. I am sure many SUV drivers are like me- bought them when there was little discussion and education about energy conservation, and an huge emphasis on having lots of room to safely haul around kids, their friends, the dogs, and the gear. I still have the kids, the friends, the dogs, the gear, and a car that is almost paid off. When it is time to buy the next car, there are better choices available than when we car shopped five years ago. As far as status symbols go, I wouldn't know about those, since we are not status symbol people.

We need to work together to protect our beach, and getting all snarky about the cars driven by the people attending this meeting is not helpful. Local businesses should be thankful for every single local and visitor who attend this meeting and the Hands Across the Sand event, no matter what car they drive, to learn how too protect our tourism economy by protecting our beach- and in turn making sure you and other local restaurants and businesses can stay in business.

And also, I know in my last post I said I was done with this and nothing more to say, however,...............

It has come to my attention that some people on here think I own a restaurant.
LET ME BE 1000% CRYSTAL CLEAR. I AM NOT WHO YOU THINK I AM.
I do not own a restaurant. You do not need to be harboring any ill
will towards a specific restaurant owner. Said owner has nothing to
do with the comments made here by me.

Now, I am finished with this post. Good will and good luck to you all.

The Mis-Informed need to read their electric bill

Sorry for this long post.

For some unknown reason, those who talk about ocean drilling concern themselves only with oil. Natural Gas is also a product of ocean drilling. A very clean source of energy.

Those who support of the use of LSV's in South Walton need to realize that a large amount of the power in Walton County comes from Natural Gas powered electric power production plants. Take a look at your Chelco power bill. The information is contained there for your reference.

Meanwhile, SOME OF THOSE who support LSV use in Walton suggest the those of us who drive automobiles, take the "feeder routes" to highway 98, to navigate "around" 30A. That makes real sense (not)! Using more time and fuel to cover the same distance, in some cases, two to three times the amount of fuel and time. Again, what are SOME OF THESE LSV supporters thinking? It appears, not much at all.

I suspect there are many LSV supporters that understand the realities of the proposed "feeder road use" for automobiles solution. (just a small rant, why do LSV supporters believe that their time is more valuable than automobile drivers? Transplanted "Elitists" I suspect who have no clue as to how to ride a bicycle. )

I agree with the poster that one must have a complete plan to reduce their overall use of fossil fuels involving automobile, home and business consumption. This is actually quite simple to undertake, and with a few low cost minor improvements and maintenance performed to their home, can result in a tremendous amount of energy savings (in my personal case, over 30% reduction in energy usage).

The easiest way to reduce energy usage is to look at what energy one is using today and find each and every way to reduce the usage by simply applying common sense and very few dollars to eliminate energy waste. Instead of downsizing one's large automobile/SUV to a smaller energy efficient vehicle, one could just spend the money on the maintenance necessary to make sure the vehicle is running as efficient as possible.

In this poster's view, it is much better to seek out how one can be as energy efficient as possible, versus telling other people what they should do (like telling people to ditch their SUVs). And just for the record, my car is a small and efficient vehicle that gets 36 MPG and I ditched my SUV years ago in my own personal effort to reduce energy usage. I miss the SUV for the obvious safety reasons, but this means I just have to concentrate on being a better defensive driver and do a better job to avoid the idiots who drive on 30A, Highway 98 and the rest of the planet for that matter.

"Citizens are stronger when they stick together" ( quote from WaltonIsOne)